We all know that China and her civilians has its fill of superstitions and religions. However, what are the views on superstition and religion of the Chinese military? Books such as Three Kingdoms often depict two different, contrasting views on the topic: sometimes, the haughty, incompetent general refuses to accept the omens and are quickly defeated in battle, other times, the competent, capable general leads an unwilling army into victory, after dismissing the ones who believe the bad omens as cowardly and womanlike. How much influence does religion have over the military? Would a soldier who prayed during the heat of battle be considered chickenhearted and weak, or would his comrades dismiss such behavior? Such actions would be overlooked in Europe, where religious tension have always been a cause for warfare, and even in the modern day, soldiers might say a little prayer during battle: watch the first scenes of Saving Private Ryan.

I'm asking of both modern and ancient armies. Has the views changed since Christianity started becoming a factor in China?

Chinese military strategy is always atheist which is directly related to Chinese philosophy. Sunzi said five elements to win in the Art of War: "一曰道, 二曰天, 三曰地, 四曰将, 五曰法." (Translation: the first is the Dao, the second is the Heaven, the third is the Earth, the fourth is the General, the fifth is the Law.) There is no space for superstitious region in it.

Think that has to do more with the characters themselves, than what the omen. The smart, righteous hero who denies the omen to unleash his tactical genius, vs the rash idiot that's bumbling his way to death even though heaven is going "stop you idiot, the stars say you're going to die tonight!"



It's difficult to say though, religion is different in the cultures. Even 'religion' is a western concept, really, or what is 'Eastern religion' is really something as different as 'eastern language' is to a western counterpart.

to be in a position where you might die... it tends to make people scared, and when you're scared you'll find lots of things to sooth your mind.
Like say the crusades. Tell the peasant the cross painted on his shirt is divine protection. it's pigment on thin cloth, an arrow will go straight through it, but he is psychologically comforted enough to send his butt to war.

I know that later samurai, some took crucifixes as good luck charms.

now religious bits that I do remember...
There are Chinese helmets with protective sutras inscribed into them. You could call this religious belief, yeah, it also decorates a nice helmet for important people.

I believe the Shang dynasty had a leather armor made from male and female rhino hides pressed together in the belief that the unity of complimentary genders had a strengthening effect.

It's probably safe to say the poor footsoldier will probably have something faith based to bolster his confidence, while the commanders and tacticians look at it with secular expertise.



...this might interest you, but religious statements are still given by military officials to this day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3199212.stm
US is 'battling Satan' says general


but at the same time, America has the world's greatest, most advanced and tactically sound military. So both can exist at once.




hmmm

ah, i just thought of osmething, the Boxers! I think this is an interesting example of... I guess 'faith' in battle differences between East and West.

The boxers were said to train in techniques to resist bullets. This could be compared to how christians believe crosses protect them from harm (and the "THE BIBLE STOPPED THE BULLET!!" imagery is always cool).
you could say the western superstition is asking an external force to protect you, the eastern belief is you've internally strengthened yourself from harm. This fits into religious/philosophical differences.

Though I find that the Boxer's beliefs are generally portrayed as laughable("LOL, he thinks that silly routine will stop bullets! Stupid idiot"), in thinking they can stop bullets. While guys praying are seen with sympathy ("oh, he calls upon christ to protect him, very solemn...")

Would you ever find a story like Constantine's, who supposedly witnessed the cross before a battle, causing him to order the cross be painted on his soldiers' shields as divine protection and declare the battle for God? Whether this was true or Constantine's attempt to gain the support of Christians who were rapidly gaining in strength and numbers is irrelevant. Constantine allowed himself to be subject to this myth, and modern day Europeans have no problem with viewing Constantine in such a way. Your link, TMPikachu, is similar to this. Would a Chinese General of the Han, Tang, or Song dynasties openly admit protection from a diety? I suppose the answer would be yes. A general would probably love to be known as protected by x or y god, spreading fear among his enemies. But would successful generals or warrior emperors personally take part in religious traditions with the zeal of regular Chinese civilians and soldiers or with the zeal of Charles V of the HRE or Louis XIV, both successful, and extremely religious political figures of European history? Would Chinese generals or warrior Emperors even attribute their successes to their deity?



What is Dao? Sunzi's definition is:

道者,令民兴上同意也,故可兴之死,可兴之生,而不畏危也.

The Tao inspires people to share the same ideals and expectations. Hence, because they share in life and share in death, the people do not fear danger. - RL Wing

This sounds a lot like it could include religion as well as political loyalty, demands for equality, etc.

Have you read the "Diaries of Manchu Soldier" translated by Nicola di Cosmo? It is dated by 1681-1683. There are a lot of descriptions of different superstuitions.

E.g. Manchu General Manggitu killed a big snake which got into his tent. Chinese name of the snake was mang (like the first syllable of the General name) so soldiers said that the General would die soon. And then General Manggitu suddenly fell in ill and died.

Original is given in transliteration too but it is Manchu text, not Chinese.

I am not sure of the doctrine of the People's Liberation army....

But coming from a military background and I can assure that an army or a soldier with a religious conviction definitely have an advantage over others...

However no sensible army will put religious faith at the center of their warfare doctrine....I would say religion will be an important motivation factor....

Just look at the kamikaze mentality of the Japanese pilots during WW2....

And I also believe there is no such thing as a atheist in a foxhole....

If rationality thoughts always prevails in the minds of troops....all wars will be end sooner then before.....

I have been read the Chine type of this book,very interesting,indeed

Nicola di Cosmo mentioned that a scholar from PRC translated the text into Chinese language.

And I have translated another diary - a diary of Korean General Shin Ryu (1658). He took part in raid of Manchu troops against Russian Cossaks on Amur and described a lot of detailed information about soldiers' day-to-day life. But I translated it in Russian as I am Russian

Diaries are very interesting regarding the valuable info so I want to get another diary - a diary of Kaifeng defence against Li Zicheng. I will look for the proper hyerogliphs to show the Chinese name of it.

And another very interesting diary is "Jinbirok" of Korean Minister Liu Sungryong (about Imjin War 1592-1598).

Have you ever mention,Manchus worship Guan Gong(关公），especially General Manggitu
So you are Russia?I'm an ethnic Manchu

Good! I am Russian, but I am studing Qing period, especially Manchu warfare. Could you speak Manchu language? I try to study it but there are no dictionaries (I even have a grammar of classic Manchu language but I do not know words).

I only can speak Mandarin.I learned Manchu language several years ago,but I give up,because it is difficult

Both are great examples how one religion puts down another while doing the exact same thing.

I believe it largely depends on the times, the commander, and perhaps even the sovereign.

I remember reading in Medieval Chinese Warfare that Wang Shichong was fond of ritual, and even invoked a sort of augury to boost his soldiers morale before the battle in which he smashed Li Mi saying that if his soldiers failed, they would "die of pestilence". One of his generals complained that he was too mired in ritual, saying that he was like "an old witch or shaman".

I suppose it certainly wasn't unheard of, but not universally approved or accepted either.

Western armies usually had priests with them on campaign, and the Japanese had Shinto priests in the RJW for sure. Did the Chinese Imperial Army ever have them?

Author of war books or even generals who usually claim that a soldier is weak because he prayed tend to be either arm-chair strategists or historians who write history far removed from the realities of everyday life.

Battle is a very very stressful part of a soldier's life. Hardly any soldier goes into war without some form of a lucky charm, or a photo of his family. Any soldier have to personally come face to face with death will feel braver and more at ease with some sort of amulet or prayer. In most armies, it is not surprising for priests, imams, shamans or monks to follow along and give religious blessings. Many soldiers would in fact, welcome their presence.

There are many things in a soldier's life that is never reported or written by generals. I served in the military before. There were things we did (nothing unlawful) that would never make it into the military reports. Hence, if you were to write a military history solely our military reports, you won't get a full picture of how soldiers lived.

Sometimes, generals can be far too removed from the realities of standing in rank-and-file. Sometimes, history and art of war books are written by people who had never had to personally storm a breach, lead an actual cavalry charge or almost getting killed by a crossbow. So naturally to them, having amulets and lucky charms are nothing but superstitious nonsense.

You might want to read 'Acts of War' by Richard Holmes for a more accurate view of soldier's behaviour in battle. It is probably quite accurate on how the average Chinese soldier felt, even with regards to religious beliefs for battle.

Starbuck, I am in full agreement with your position.

I cannot resist telling the following joke:

"A man who who always boasted he belived in ....neither God nor the devil.... was walking a tightrope , slipped, almost fell, and said ......opps, God is good ! God is good ! ... two steps further, he slipped again ...... this time he said.... and the devil is not a bad fellow either! After he reached the safty of the other side... he again believed in neither God nor the devil."

I too spent time in the military and was fortunate to never been under actual enemy attack. But I did complete dangerous and accident rich training to be qualified as combat engineer platoon leader with special training in explosives, demolitiim, land mines and night river crossings. I can tell you I observed first hand during this training excatly the points you are making. Those, with but a few exceptions, who while before the danger, and again after the danger had past, would make sport of those who prayed, when they themselves were in actual danger remained silent on the issue.

During World War II, three of my uncles served in the military, my father's brother in the Navy, my mother's two brothers in the Army Air Corps (later the US Air Force). They had no experience in foxholes. They would agree, nonetheless, that those who consider themselves atheists or agnostics, when the danger, and the fear of death arises within them are often subject to an immediate, but not necessary lasting "conversion experience".

As for the phrase itself, the origin is uncertain. Various sources credit one or another infantry officer, but the phrase is most often attributed to Ernie Pyle. (If he did not originate it, he certainly publicized it.) The book "Ghost Soldiers" by Hampton Sides attributes it to a chaplain at Canbanatuan in 1944, but it appears in the film "Wake Island", which was produced in 1942. And, in the form "There are no atheists in the trenches", it was common during the 1914-1918 War To End All Wars (which didn't achieve that purpose).

(Based on my personal memories, with some references to Wikipedia.)