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Sinsigel
For hundreds of years, Chinese cavalry frequently used used bows and lance altogether.
However, although I know that bows and arrows were kept in bow-holsters and quivers,
I have no idea about how the lance was carried when horseman wasn't using it.

The picture(source: http://www1.chinaculture.org/library/2006-...tent_80693.htm)
in this thread was drawn by Guiseppe Castiglione,
who also drew Emperor Qianlong in his panopoly, mounted.
I wonder whether this will give some clues.
Yun
That method - tucking it under the armpit - was probably the most common one. The cavalrymen of the Arab armies in the Crusade period, from what I have read, tucked their lance between their thigh and the side of the horse when engaged in archery. This was probably done quite often in China too, especially by cavalry armed with both lance and bow.

There also seems to have been a lance strap in use during the Song period. A cavalryman could use the strap to let the lance hang from his arm while he used his hand for something else (e.g. bow or reins).

Finally, there was the option of sticking one's lance in the ground and coming back for it later, or handing it to one's groom or servant (if one had a groom or servant following on horseback).
Altaica Militarica
QUOTE (Sinsigel @ Feb 27 2008, 02:08 AM) *
For hundreds of years, Chinese cavalry frequently used used bows and lance altogether.
However, although I know that bows and arrows were kept in bow-holsters and quivers,
I have no idea about how the lance was carried when horseman wasn't using it.

The picture(source: http://www1.chinaculture.org/library/2006-...tent_80693.htm)
in this thread was drawn by Guiseppe Castiglione,
who also drew Emperor Qianlong in his panopoly, mounted.
I wonder whether this will give some clues.


It is a portrait of Dzhungar General Ayushi who surrendered to Qing and took part in further war as Qing officer.

Please pay attention to the straps on the end of the lance and in the last third of it - the first one is for foot and the second is for shoulder. In this postion a warrior could not only use the bow, but even to fire a matchlock. The same style was widely spread over Eurasian steppes till Russian Don.
Sinsigel
Thank you all for answering, especially Mr. Altaica Militarica.


QUOTE (Altaica Militarica @ Feb 27 2008, 05:26 PM) *
It is a portrait of Dzhungar General Ayushi who surrendered to Qing and took part in further war as Qing officer.

Please pay attention to the straps on the end of the lance and in the last third of it - the first one is for foot and the second is for shoulder. In this postion a warrior could not only use the bow, but even to fire a matchlock. The same style was widely spread over Eurasian steppes till Russian Don.


Your comment is interesting. Does this mean that a horseman puts his right foot through the loop at the end of the lance,
and his right arm through the second loop when using ranged weapons?(Assuming that the rider is right handed)
I wonder if there are other related sources I could look for.

Again, thank you for giving comments.
Altaica Militarica
QUOTE (Sinsigel @ Feb 27 2008, 10:54 PM) *
Your comment is interesting. Does this mean that a horseman puts his right foot through the loop at the end of the lance,
and his right arm through the second loop when using ranged weapons?(Assuming that the rider is right handed)
I wonder if there are other related sources I could look for.


It is a stuff from the article about Polish ulans in 1814:

The lance used to be inserted into bushmat (i.e. loop) of crude black leather 80 mm. high and with upper diam. 45 mm. and the lower diam. 25 mm. Upper and lower edges of the loop had thongs 25 mm. wide which were used to fix the loop to the stirrup. Both stirrups had these loops.

The pole was wrapped with white thong (2,106 m.) a little bit higher than the center of the pole was. This thong formed a loop and if one iinserted the lance into the bushmat and put the second loop on his shoulder he had his hands free".

I keep the Russian original of the passage in order to verify my poor rendering:

Пика тупым концом вставлялась в тулейку (бушмат), из грубой черной кожи, высотой 80 мм, диаметром сверху 45 мм, снизу 25 мм. По верхнему и нижнему краям тулейки нашивались ремни шириной 25 мм, которыми она крепилась к стремени. Нужно добавить, что как правое, так и левое стремя были снабжены такими бушматами.

Немного выше центра, древко обматывалось белым ремнем (длина 2 м 106 мм), сверху образующем петлю, и пика, вставленная в тулейку с накинутым ремнем на плечо, освобождала руки кавалериста.
Altaica Militarica
Ural cossacks (ca. 1770). They fought against Nogai, Kazakh, Kara-Kalpak tribes on the frontier and subdued rebellions of Kalmyk, Bashkir ant Siberian Tatars. When Russia was in war they served in the troops and took part in wars against Turkey and France. In XVIII century they were prepared to fight with Qing troops in Siberia if Qing troops invaded into Russian territory seeking for Dzhungar's refugees. In 1771 they chased Kalmyk's rebels who moved from Volga to Qing Empire. So they weaponry was close to the weaponry of their counterparts.

kaiselin
QUOTE (Altaica Militarica @ Mar 3 2008, 05:36 AM) *
Ural cossacks (ca. 1770). They fought against Nogai, Kazakh, Kara-Kalpak tribes on the frontier and subdued rebellions of Kalmyk, Bashkir ant Siberian Tatars. When Russia was in war they served in the troops and took part in wars against Turkey and France. In XVIII century they were prepared to fight with Qing troops in Siberia if Qing troops invaded into Russian territory seeking for Dzhungar's refugees. In 1771 they chased Kalmyk's rebels who moved from Volga to Qing Empire. So they weaponry was close to the weaponry of their counterparts.


Very nice picture.

If you look at the lancer in the front left you can see the loop over his shoulder that the lance is being hung from.
mariusj
Question

I know that at least till the Medieval Time, lances are mostly [if not always] one time use.

Is it true for the above pictures?
Altaica Militarica
QUOTE (mariusj @ Mar 3 2008, 02:35 PM) *
Question

I know that at least till the Medieval Time, lances are mostly [if not always] one time use.

Is it true for the above pictures?


No, it was constant weapon. They could fence with the lance.

Another one pic - ca. 1820.
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