the link below is to a site about the organization "the Silver Horde". its a group of people interested in Mongol culture ESPECIALLY archery

Mongol Archery link in Silverhorde website

ALSO, they have an entire detailed section on Han Chinese archery culture and even video clips showing archery related Qi Gong practices (showing comradery of Han Chinese and Mongol archery cultures)

Chinese Archery Link on silverhorde website

Great site on Mongol and chinese archery

the Qi Gong exercises relating to archery are the most fascinating. its such a shame Han Chinese archery is pretty much extinct

Has anyone studied whether there are any strong influences from China on the present practice of Korean archery, which is famous internationally?

everytime i try to find a decent source on that, i just end up with a lot of Korean nationalist propoganda such as they are descended from the Dong Yi, or descended from Mongols,etc,etc. in reference to their archery culture but i know korean archery culture is no older than 2000 years old
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Han military culture in general is a lost treasure. Not just archery but swordsmanship as well. Chinese armies used an unbelievable varieties of swords ranging from Jian type to Dao type (which included proto-katana blades and such). now all we have left is so called "Shaolin" forms that only date from Qing which use floppy pseudo-Jian and just a few types of Dao with tassels attached to them

Hua Lin Pai thankfully preserves many military weapons forms. and General Qi's Chang Dao (no-dachi) method are being studied again

Archery seems to have been such an important part of Han culture too.

You know, Horse archery should be an olympic sport. If god-d**** curling is a sport, and swimming has two dozen or so medals, might as well put in horse archery, the sport noble Asians (East to west) have been engaging in for thousands of years.

Good idea, although it would essentially be a contest between the Japanese and the Koreans. Do you think the Manchus should be blamed for making horse archery a monopoly of their ethnicity in China, such that when the Banners degenerated there was no one else to carry on the tradition?

it SEEMS? it is. it always has been. Kong Zi himself considered it an art that all real men should be proficient at.

Mongol archers consider the Han style to be superior from a standing position.
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Yun, i disagree. China got a silver medal in archery this past olympics. It wouldn't be a contest between koreans and japanese especially regarding horse archery since neither country places much emphasis on horses anymore while in China especially inner mongolia, great war horses are still bred.

the Manchus paid lip service to their concept of "Da Zhong Hua" but didn't understand its implications much. If they did, they would have realized China had a rich military culture and plenty of good cavalrymen and archers to augment their forces.

btw, those goofy tassels that "Chinese" swordsman have these days are from Qing era and Manchu enforced. I'm not sure why but i'm sure it was to further the humiliation of what was left of Han military culture.


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Chinese are far too idle about the fact that their martial traditions like archery are being practiced still in other countries. I've seen Korean martial artists who wear uniforms that are FAR more Chinese than the ones that actual Chinese martial artists wear.

浪淘音, what I meant is that there are still Japanese practising yabusame (with their native assymetrical bows), and Koreans practising horse-archery with composite bows, but I have never heard of any Chinese doing the same. As for the Mongolians, I'm not sure if they would have enough state support to field a team.


A picture of modern Korean horse-archers

Japanese yabusame: http://web-jpn.org/kidsweb/calendar/september/yabusame.html

Does anyone know much on Xibe (Jurchens who refused to join with Nurhachi) Archery? many Chinese 56 nationalities book always paint the Xibe as China's best archers, indeed I believe that many of them went to the Olympics to represent China in archery

What I do know is that the Xibe claim to be descended from the Xianbei.

well, the fact that Koreans and Japanese are still doing it should inspire you guys to take up archery and horsemanship even more and restore our ancient martial traditions!!!!!

you can read all you want, you'll never understand it unless you try to do it

Tassels on swords- Their purpose is to get a grip on a bloody, slippery handle, and maybe distract the opponent (a little)

With the Olympics being held in Beijing next, it seems like the best time to get Horse Archery in there.

have you handled a sword before or had proper instruction? the tassels do absolutely nothing. the handles are already tied up in strings and cloth which would absorb any blood that somehow got onto the handle. Please do some research before you assume

and as for the "distraction" factor, thats absolutely laughable. when your fencing, you pay attention to where the blade is going, not where a piece of cloth stuck to the BOTTOM of the handle is going

by the way, i have four high carbon/combat steel live blade swords. i've been practicing sword since i was 14, i know what i'm talking about

the tassels did not exist before Qing.

That's the explination I've gotten, tassels for wiping off blood. You're right. You obviously know about swords. Yes, tassles seem pretty useless. I've just stated what I've been told, read in books. You've proven yourself to be very authorative on the subject, swords from 14, impressive.

By the way you type, I imagine you as one of those white haired cloud striding masters, playing with his beard has he chastises a foolish student.

Jian fencing, another olympic event! huzzah

Jian fencing, much like most ancient Han Chinese military arts, is a dying art.

that reminds me, i'm gonna make a thread about many modern sword forms which are butchered versions of Qi Men Jian Fa forms (General Qi's technique) and they have the NERVE to call them authentic Qi Men Jian forms

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/cn_arc_indx.htm
http://www.atarn.org/letters/letter_summaries.htm

fantastic, great site, thanks!

Stephen Selby seems willing to answer queries on Asian Archery topics if people contact him through the site. Richard Nable had suggested this group as a good place to contact for some specific queries.
I found some of Stephens research on the original bronze crossbow mechanisms (also under the CHF thread 'Chinese crossbow vs. European crossbow') was quite interesting to see the variation in designs that existed,
http://www.atarn.org/chinese/bjng_xbow/bjng_xbow.htm
Lovely pieces these.....

Already added this link to our directory list.

If you look carefully, you can find me on the site !!

http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_dec01.htm

In 2001, Stephen Selby visited the Korea Military Museum and saw some reconstructions of the Ming linked-crossbow booby trap, the machine-gun crossbow, and the side-arrow guide. This is his article on the visit.

[quote=Liang Jieming,May 6 2005, 03:52 AM]


[/quote

Somebody has said it is a Mongol archer of late XIX century Qing army. It is wrong. It is a hunter-archer of _khori-buryat tribe_ of Buryats living around the lake of Baikal (former Russian Empire territory - nowadays the territory of Russian Federation). The pic was taken in the beginning of XX century by Russian scholars. I have 2 more pics with mounted Buryads equipped with armour, bows and spears during the Obo-taqalqa ritual in the 1910-s.

Best regards,

Alexey.

Dear Yun,

Where is this Korean pic from? I guess I have the whole DVD regarding the Korean equestrian martial arts. But I never sow it in the Internet.

Could you provide a link for the whole moovie in the Internet?

Best regards,

Alexey.

AM, it's from the Korean Equestrian Martial Arts Association website: http://chunghondang.com

Thank you a lot! It is very useful link.

Best regards,

Alexey.

Hi 浪淘音,

That's interesting, could you please give some details on Hua Lin Pai and the military weapons forms?


Thanks

Xibe are renowned archers living in Xinjiang. The Xibe are related to the Xianbei (CHF thread on this thread) and speak a language related to Manchu. They are descendants of Manchurian bannermen that came to help colonize and defend China’s western borders during Qianlong’s reign. According to chsource.org, they were dispersed to avoid an uprising in the Manchu-held east.

The Xibe are still proud archers. When a boy is born, the parents hang a bow outside the door, and some boys and girls train eight hours a day to train for the Olympics (“Xinjiang”, National Geographic, March 1996).

Some Xibe archery pics taken form this site:


Xibe practice rings shot at from 30 meters


Tao Wenxin as a young man performing Xibe traditional archery (1960s) and now with his wife in his garden

[IMG]
[url=http://www.chinanews.cn/news/2005/2005-10-31/13366.html]Traditional Xibe bows and arrows

Information about the Xibe archers seems elusive, so any additional information would be helpful.