I have read a lot of good threads about Chinese armours from 3 Kingdoms, Age of Fragmentation to Sui and Tang dynasty. But it seems to me that for some reasons surviving armours of this period are less abundant to the previous one (From Shang to Han dynasty)? I have known that the reason why the Mongol armours are so rare is that after everybattles, armours were recollected, assorted and redistributed among other warriors. Hardly the Mongols burried their armours with them to grave. Is this the same to Chinese warriors?
Another thing is majority of Chinese armours of this period seems to be made up of leather, is this also a remarkable factor to make armours of this period so rare?
Full Version: Surviving Chinese Armours From 3 Kingdoms to Tang?
Actually, there is no surviving piece of Shang armour, and if not for the discovery of the terracotta army and the limestone suits of armour at the Qin mausoleum, our only specimen of Warring States armour would be the one from the tomb of Marquis Yi of Zeng.
Han armour is a little better represented because some princely tombs with suits of armour have been found. But the practice of putting armour in tombs may have died out by the end of the Han period, and for that reason we simply do not know where to dig to find post-Han armour. Fortunately, we do have a large number of tomb figurines of soldiers from the Age of Fragmentation and Sui-Tang period, which gives us a good idea of what the armour of these periods was like.
Han armour is a little better represented because some princely tombs with suits of armour have been found. But the practice of putting armour in tombs may have died out by the end of the Han period, and for that reason we simply do not know where to dig to find post-Han armour. Fortunately, we do have a large number of tomb figurines of soldiers from the Age of Fragmentation and Sui-Tang period, which gives us a good idea of what the armour of these periods was like.
well, it's rare to find surviving pieces of arms and armor anywhere in the world
say the english longbow, there are no surviving pieces for this famous, widespread weapon. Or the roman lorica segmentum, another famous widespread item of armor, yet I've read that there's maybe... One surviving piece. Yet the amount of material covering these armies, it sure seems like they've unearthed whole legions intact, heheh.
I think it's more that coverage of Chinese armor is just not as in depth, so the few articles on it, we've already seen. Versus the countless number of books and illustrations on european stuff.
funeral practices also vary from time to time, we're lucky Chinese liked to be buried with their possessions for much of history.
say the english longbow, there are no surviving pieces for this famous, widespread weapon. Or the roman lorica segmentum, another famous widespread item of armor, yet I've read that there's maybe... One surviving piece. Yet the amount of material covering these armies, it sure seems like they've unearthed whole legions intact, heheh.
I think it's more that coverage of Chinese armor is just not as in depth, so the few articles on it, we've already seen. Versus the countless number of books and illustrations on european stuff.
funeral practices also vary from time to time, we're lucky Chinese liked to be buried with their possessions for much of history.
QUOTE (TMPikachu @ Mar 4 2008, 06:48 PM) 
well, it's rare to find surviving pieces of arms and armor anywhere in the world
say the english longbow, there are no surviving pieces for this famous, widespread weapon.
What about the Mary Rose finds? Bows were found in the wreck of that english ship.say the english longbow, there are no surviving pieces for this famous, widespread weapon.
QUOTE
Or the roman lorica segmentum, another famous widespread item of armor, yet I've read that there's maybe... One surviving piece. Yet the amount of material covering these armies, it sure seems like they've unearthed whole legions intact, heheh.
There should be at least three lorica segmentum, complete or in parts: The Kalkriese, the Newstead and the Corbridge-find.QUOTE
I think it's more that coverage of Chinese armor is just not as in depth, so the few articles on it, we've already seen. Versus the countless number of books and illustrations on european stuff.
I believe part of the problem is the lack of academic interest and the fact that the better research backed up with archeological evidence seems to be all russian.
There seems to be alot of well preserved Japanese armor. I wonder why that is? The Japanese seem to be really good at preserving their culture.
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I believe part of the problem is the lack of academic interest and the fact that the better research backed up with archeological evidence seems to be all russian.
Or, naturally, in Chinese. The only solid scholar of pre-Tang Chinese armour who wrote in English is Albert Dien.
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There seems to be alot of well preserved Japanese armor. I wonder why that is? The Japanese seem to be really good at preserving their culture.
Actually, there are few surviving pieces of Japanese armour from before the Kamakura bakufu, i.e. tanko or keiko armour, and most of these come from tombs. According to the website http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html :
QUOTE
Most of what we know about the actual appearance and construction of tankô and keikô is due to the considerable efforts of the late Professor Suenaga Masao, an eminent archaeologist and historian, who painstakingly replicated dozens of different suits of armours after studying the remains excavated from Japanese mound tombs.
The introduction of Buddhism to Japan in the sixth century led to a phase-out of the old burial traditions and the subsequent loss of a great deal of archaeological material. From the last tombs of the eighth and ninth centuries until the oldest extant armour of the eleventh, we have a gap in which we can only surmise -- based on what came before and what followed -- the forms of armour worn in Japan. One form of keikô, the uchikake-shiki keikô, was clearly the last development of the keikô, and an obvious precursor to the next form of armour.
The introduction of Buddhism to Japan in the sixth century led to a phase-out of the old burial traditions and the subsequent loss of a great deal of archaeological material. From the last tombs of the eighth and ninth centuries until the oldest extant armour of the eleventh, we have a gap in which we can only surmise -- based on what came before and what followed -- the forms of armour worn in Japan. One form of keikô, the uchikake-shiki keikô, was clearly the last development of the keikô, and an obvious precursor to the next form of armour.
QUOTE (Chen06 @ Mar 29 2008, 07:55 PM)
There seems to be alot of well preserved Japanese armor. I wonder why that is? The Japanese seem to be really good at preserving their culture.
That's because victors donated the arms and armour of the slain to their family god. Quiet a few pieces survived in temples in that way. Furthermore, research into and recreation of these armours started during the Edo-periode already.
Looking through the 3 volume set, The art of Central Asia : the Stein collection in the British Museum by Roderick Whitfield, at my institution I found there were multiple pictures of surviving lames from hardened leather lamallar armor found at Niya IIRC. It consisted of very nice full color images of the pieces. Here is a sample, and I can provide a few more if desired:
QUOTE (CasonSnow @ May 14 2008, 04:01 AM)
Looking through the 3 volume set, The art of Central Asia : the Stein collection in the British Museum by Roderick Whitfield, at my institution I found there were multiple pictures of surviving lames from hardened leather lamallar armor found at Niya IIRC. It consisted of very nice full color images of the pieces. Here is a sample, and I can provide a few more if desired:
More would be appreciated, thanks. To make them useful you need to include the period, location found, and assumed piece i.e. Horse Barding, breast piece, helmet, etc. Presumably you are referring to examples of Chinese Armour rather than Central Asia?
QUOTE (CasonSnow @ May 14 2008, 06:01 AM)
Looking through the 3 volume set, The art of Central Asia : the Stein collection in the British Museum by Roderick Whitfield, at my institution I found there were multiple pictures of surviving lames from hardened leather lamallar armor found at Niya IIRC. It consisted of very nice full color images of the pieces. Here is a sample, and I can provide a few more if desired:
The more photos you could put up the better as far as I am concerned.
Are there any photos of the underside of the armour as well? That would not only show more of the construction, but also how it was fastened.
QUOTE (Yun @ Mar 29 2008, 04:35 PM)
Or, naturally, in Chinese. The only solid scholar of pre-Tang Chinese armour who wrote in English is Albert Dien.
Actually, there are few surviving pieces of Japanese armour from before the Kamakura bakufu, i.e. tanko or keiko armour, and most of these come from tombs. According to the website http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html :
Actually, there are few surviving pieces of Japanese armour from before the Kamakura bakufu, i.e. tanko or keiko armour, and most of these come from tombs. According to the website http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html :
communisim has brought up some cultural revolution...that is why sadly today we dont get to see as much as there was to see...but im considering 2008 the time today..its the new reneissence for china again. hopefully more stuff would be found again.
Chinese history probably cannot be globalised till a while, they only recently rejoined the world again, as many would think theres not much to look at...China has alot and probably one of the Most aincent remains, everywhere through that huge land theres historical sites to look at, especially Xian and Beijin, almost every city of the country has aincent remains many well preserved...we cant say chinese are bad at preserving tradition, ive only start watching alot of tourisim and history shows about china..well im afraid these shows probably arnt globalised enough for many of yous to see anyway but almost every palce they goto the people there have great understanding of their ancestors and traditions...but hopefully people will all see one day...armour is a hard topic as chinese armours are mainly scaled or layered in many attached pieces...which time would ware it off...also the chaost the cultural revolution has done to many traditional things...but thankfully the country is large enough to save too many things...dont be dissapointed theres alot more for us to see, the itnernet probably wouldnt bethe best soruce for this stuff. hope this could make clear of somethings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai
the "histroy section" also explains how japanese armours and samurai were influenced
it is absolutely true even the japanese know this that big part of their culture was influenced by china...people some how just think its vice versa..
the "histroy section" also explains how japanese armours and samurai were influenced
it is absolutely true even the japanese know this that big part of their culture was influenced by china...people some how just think its vice versa..
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