Evidence Of Commerce Between Ancient Israel And China
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80304100410.htm

ScienceDaily (Mar. 7, 2008) — Throughout the 12th and 13th centuries - during the time of the Crusades --ceramic vessels reached Acre from: Mediterranean regions, the Levant, Europe, North Africa, and even China -- reveals new research, which examined trade of ceramic vessels, conducted at the University of Haifa.


This research, conducted by Dr. Edna Stern under the direction of Prof. Michal Artzy and Dr. Adrian Boasz, examined pottery found during excavations conducted by the Israel Antiquities Authority of Crusader period Acre and pottery found in shipwrecks around the Mediterranean coast.

According to Dr. Stern, during these centuries, Acre -- in addition to being the gateway for Christian pilgrims into the Land of Israel, was one of the busiest commercial ports in the Latin East that had commercial links to Europe, the Islamic world and the Byzantine Empire.

The study found that the majority of the ceramic wares that were imported to Acre included glazed tableware, predominantly bowls and plates. Other vessel forms that arrived in smaller numbers include containers, jars, bowls and cooking wares. 44.5% of imports arrived from the Mediterranean regions of Cyprus, Greece and Asia Minor. There were also strong commercial links with the neighbors in Syria and Lebanon where 29.3% of the imports arrived from. Western Mediterranean regions-- such as France, Catalonia and Tunisia, were the source of some 3.3% of ceramic vessels and even Chinese pottery arrived in Acre - 0.2% of the imported pottery arrived from China.

According to Dr. Stern, in contrast to the notion that ceramic wares were imported to Acre and surrounding ports as luxury items, the findings of her study revealed exactly the opposite. "Pottery that arrived in Acre, and other sites around the Mediterranean Sea, did not arrive because of their high value, rather it seems that they were imported by commercial shipping companies for the long and medium term as secondary items as 'space fillers' for the more expensive items that were shipped," she concluded.

I am not really surprised by the collective origins of the ceramic items analysed. We would expect to see large numbers of items from Western Europe, since Acre was home to concessions of all the major Italian cities, such as Genoa and Venice. These cities also had concessions in the Muslim cities of Egypt. Trade with the Maghreb was also not unknown, and items from Northern Africa could always have arrived after transshipment in Sicily.

We also know that Chinese items had been arriving in the Mediterranean for over a thousand years before then, since the Greek word for China was Sereticos, which is derived from Seres which means silk.

I would really like to know what items were from where, and what other goods went through the port beyond ceramics.

Amen to that!

I realize something...

They use Israel to say Palestine, or Holy Land. . .

Don't we use Israel in order to associate it with Jewish Country/Kingdom?

Regarding the word Israel, it could be seen as this way.

They mentioned the land of Israel. As this land was more well-knowned as the place where most people regarded as Israel. This is as ambiguious as I can get without using PC words.

Then there's the kingdom of Israel which stands for those short lived dynasties that ruled over that land by leaders who claim lineage all the way to Jacob to Abraham.
The biblical figure, Jacob, was also known as Israel i.e. "He struggles" with God. (I think).
Technically speaking, whether it's in a symbolic or literal fashion, the Jewish people are all descended from Jacob via Issac to Abraham. However, it is by Jacob where their seeds sprout out to the 12 tribes then pretty much the Nation of Israel. There's like several stories and a whole line of reasonings they used for this. Like why didn't they just call themselves the children of Abraham or Issac, which they do but Israel seems to take up more credit.

So at times, they will call themselves, the Children of Israel, as in the descendents of Jacob.
Then, collectively, the Jewish people are also call Israel. Some of their prayers are like "Hear o Israel" or "Gather Israel" which is basically speaking to all the Jewish people as a whole.
Then we get nitty gritty to politics, religious disputes, and Israel has been linked with the Jewish Kingdom and/or the modern state.

Anyways, considering how confusing my words may be. I think that's why they used the term "land of Israel". Most people would associate that with the Jewish Kingdom nowadays, but for so many reasons (one of which might be due to the author of that article) it's just a bit convenient for some people to say Israel instead of whatever names they used to called that land.

Besides, I think most people will have some idea of where Israel is.

No.
We all know where Israel is. But Israel refers to different lands at different time. Are you referring to Israel as including all the Holy Land from Antioch to Gaza, or Greater Israel that includes the Kingdom of Israel AND Kingdom of Judah. Or today's Israel?

I mean, I think it would clearer if we know we are trading with Israel the Kingdom of Israel blah blah, thus we were trading with Jews, or we are trading with Palatine, then we were trading after the Jews were expelled, or are we trading with people in the Holy Land in general?

I think that's why they used the land of Israel. It might also be whoever worded the article itself, his/her thoughts can reflect a little bit in the writing.

The article starts off mentioning the 12-13th centuries, the time of the Crusades. If my history is correct, then at this time, it was no longer a Jewish Kingdom(s). However, if what I've read is correct as well, when both the Christian Kingdoms and Muslims (and I do think there were other groups or complex situations instead of two sides batteling out) were fighting over the land, the Christians would have called it Israel as well besides Palestine. As well as mentioning Christian pilgrams and as a port for those civilizations in the region, they might have called it Israel as well. Also considering who did the research as part of the work of Israel Antiques Authority, it should make even more sense that they called the place where they are working at as the name implies.

Although I don't know what the Islamic world have called that land at that time. I'm trying to avoid any confusion if possible with modern views.

Israel have a very thick Jewish connotation in it. I am uncertain Christdoms would call that land anything Israel, as it would suggest ownership of certain group. They would of call it Palestine, as the Bible have often call it, or the Holy Land. I think we would call it either the Crusading States, [Principality of Antioch and Kingdom of Jerusalem and blah blah, we can all use google.] or Outremer.
We associate Israel in general with either the Country of Israel right now or the ancient Kingdom of Israel/Judah. Other times we don't use the word Israel to prevent confusion. Israeli in the long time of history is not a major player in Palestine in terms that we are interested, though they are a big player in terms of their history.

I don't think mention of Israel is at all surprising, since this is a newspaper article covering work that was done at the University of Haifa. Israel merely denotes the current name for the territory in which the trading port of Acre is located.

From 1098 until 1291 Acre was largely controlled by the Christians, also referred to as Franks, who inhabited the Holy Land, or Outremer. The Christian territories in this area comprised the Kingdom of Jerusalem, the County of Edessa, the County of Tripoli and the Principality of Antioch. Acre lay within the Kingdom of Jerusalem, and its fall is often perceived as marking the end of Crusader occupation of the Holy Land, although this is not entirely correct.

To put it in context, it is just like referring to parts of what is now China as China, even though they might not have fallen under the control fo the Emperor of China at the relevant time, for example Guangdong was not part of China in the time of the Western Han, but we would still refer to it as China in current discussions.

Do we call these land in the 1500s where Muslims control it Israel?

I looked for the word Outremer, and pretty much listed the names of those places mentioned. Yeah, the crusaders called it that or the Holy Land rather than Israel (but I don't know....maybe we could go in depth regarding that word, but I'm hesistant to put any modern bias or strong implications with any political/ethnic or religious views).

I did read that when talking about Israel in the Bible, or the mention of that word, it appeared to have more to do the Jewish nation as in people as a whole. The land or it's territories/Kingdoms seem to have a more specific name.

However, I don't recalled the Bible calling that place Palestine. Was it connected to Philistia or Peleshet? Then to it's Latin version of Palaestina?
However, I get the sense that it might be in the Bible but in another language or older versions have it. Or possibly the other books. I'm just looking at a regular NIV version in English.


Never mind...
I found a King James version containing the word.

Joel 3:4
Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

I saw it when searching online with the French language version, but I'm hesitating because I don't know the language.


On one hand, if we think in great depth, it probably really means trading with people in the Holy Land, which would include many groups because of it's location/history and status. However, like William mentioned, it shouldn't be too much of a surprise considering where the research was being done and by who. If this is about the article, then there isn't much we can do if you wanted a more precise words to use. Go talk to the authors or people who did the research for more clarity.

Also, depending on the person or group of people, when they hear or see the word Israel, they might associate it with various meanings. Depends on their views and in what context they are using the word.
Or in some cases, whether or not they are taking the word out of context to mean something else that might not be related to whatever they are reading/talking about. (For example, like how some people twist words or phrases so it means something close to their personal views rather than what the original intent/meaning was).

There are a few points to be made about using the Bible as a source. In many respects the Old Testament has proven itself a very good historical source, but trying to find any particular place name is somewhat more complicated.

To start with, most of the Old Testament was not actually in current use in Hebrew at the end of the Second Temple period (from the time of the Roman conquest until the Jewish Rebellion), but in Greek. That was because the Jews had been Hellenised at that time. The Torah was not actually put into a standard Hebrew form until the 8th century AD.

Likewise, the New testament was also written largely in Greek, although I know the Gospel of Luke to have been reproduced in the Imperial scriptorium in Alexandria, hence the dedication to Theophilus, the Roman Governor of the province. So, looking at the Vulgate version won't really help that much in identifying place names. This is because the oldest Latin versions of the Bible were probably written in the fifth or sixth century AD.

Turning to the nomenclature of the Holy Land in Old Testament times, you also need to understand that the Kingdom of Israel split into two - Israel and Judah at the ascension of King David.

Palestine is not a term that can be associated with any Roman Province at that time. There were three Roman Provinces in the Holy and - being Judeah, Syria and Arabia Petraea.

Hope this helps.

Thanks William. That did helped.
I sort of had a feeling it wasn't that clear-cut and had more detail or else why would we still have so many issues with these names.

I am pleased to help.

To make matters worse, there are some place names mentioned in the Bible that still cannot be tied to a current place name. For example, nobody knows for sure where Moses received the Ten Commandments. Everybody says Mt Sinai, but it does not seem to be the same place we call Mt Sinai now.

Chinese place names seem so much easier by comparison.