QUOTE (Jimayo @ Mar 10 2008, 12:15 PM)

I've been looking for information on the origins of the sword in china. Wiki says about 1600 B.C. but then they say 1300 B.C. for europe and that's way off.
So I was wondering if anyone has any good sources on that.
Although there is a Shang character for dao (knife) the Shang "swords" should not really be called as such in English as the word is used less precisely in Chinese (both dao & jian) when most would be called daggers at best. The earliest Shang 'swords' are either like a curved single edged knife which looks like a utility blade more than a weapon or a more fearsome broad/heavy cleaver. These are short weapons around 30cm long at best. The Shang 'dao' is not really a sword to my eye nor are the charioteers knives 'jian'. The Shang 'dao' was a dead end, not used after this time and not related to the swords that appeared later.
This period would not be considered the origin of the sword although linguistically the character for dao sword (as in short handled weapon) exists at this time there is no functional comparison in the weapon.
In the West Zhou short double edged daggers also called 'jian' appear, and some are certainly influenced by steppes style knives (as where some Shang weapons too). While these are double edged the weapons are not much more than 30cm at this time. The more unique West Zhou/Chinese style is the double edged knife with a short tang to attached to a hilt.
While the Shang weapons are a dead end, and go nowhere,
the West Zhou weapons gave birth to true swords.The West Zhou jian should not be called 'swords' in English since it suggests a size of weapon rather than just a blade type (double-edged jian).
In the late Spring and Autumn period this is where rather more commentators suggest (and I agree) a sword appears in China. By the late 6th & early 5th century BC a form of double edged jian appeared which was an excellent cut and thrust sword with a cross gaurd and a integral hilt. While many are less than 50cm there is enough weight and the design is good enough to be considered a true short sword as opposed to a knife. These are double edged and roughly similar to the gladius. The heavier versions with broad blades or the longer (50 to even 65 cm) East Zhou swords are of a size to kill with a cutting strike and are well designed.
The Warring States period is the first time where the sword becomes an important weapon as opposed to a self-defense or secondary blade (like earlier 'jian'). Iron long swords, and then bronze longswords, appear at this time too.
While people talk of earlier 'jian' there needs to be a consideration of form and functional rather than entomology.
It remains a fact true swords have a longer history in the West (bronze rapiers and longswords)and Wiki does not give a good account of swords evolution in China. I would knock back the swords appearance to the East Zhou period.