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galvatron
I Have a question to ask ,Why Russia and Cossack do not attack and conquer Jurchen trible during Taksa and Nurhachi times and Ming Dynasty during 1600an since Russia was expend it empire in Siberia and Alaska and a World Powers ,why they want to conquer China during Kangxi Era ,why the Russia can reach cold weather Alaska but not Manchuria ?please give a comment.
mariusj
Their supply line would be dead and they would freeze in the winter and utterly wipe out before reinforcement can cross the frozen field.
Altaica Militarica
QUOTE (galvatron @ Mar 13 2008, 11:25 PM) *
I Have a question to ask ,Why Russia and Cossack do not attack and conquer Jurchen trible during Taksa and Nurhachi times and Ming Dynasty during 1600an since Russia was expend it empire in Siberia and Alaska and a World Powers ,why they want to conquer China during Kangxi Era ,why the Russia can reach cold weather Alaska but not Manchuria ?please give a comment.


Pay attention to the terms - Russian forces never tried to conquer China. They conquered local Siberian tribes. Some of them were vassals of Qing. So it lead to the clash in 1652-1689. No special intentions and plans to invade China could be seen ini all sources.

Then pay attantion at the timing - in the end of XVI century Russian forces just started to conquer Western Siberia. Only in 1632 the first Russian outpost was built in the vicinity of modern Yakutsk (Yaku of Qing documents). And only in the beginning ot 1640th the fortress of Yakutsk was moved to the nowadays place. The garrison of all Yakutia was about 600 Cossacks (for Yakutsk and all small outposts from the mouth of Lena, Indigirka and other rivers till the Ilim and other rivers in vicibnity of Baikal). Yakuts (local tribes of Turkish origin) were brave and had a lot of armoured warriors. The last clash with them was in 1643. Yakuts were defeated. In the same year Russian Governor of Yakutsk (voyevoda) Pyotr Golovin sent his deputy (pismenny golova) Vasily Poyarkov to find silver on the "Great River of Chirkol". "The Great River of Chirkol" turned to be Amur River. Poyarkiv spent there 3 years and foun out that some tribes were subdued by a "Great Khan", and some of them - not. He returned to Yakutsk and reported that it was possible to conquer independent tribes and to force all feudatory tribes to pay tribute not to a "Great Khan" (he had no idea about Qing and China) but to Russian Tzar.

Then the Governor in Yakutsk was changed. New voyevoda allowed to a peasant Yerofey Khabarov to organize a band of trappers to search for silver and furs. Khabarov got an agreement with the voyevoda - voyevoda gave him money to by gunpowder and sails and Khabarov agreed to return him this money with furs and silver to be captured during the expedition. It explains the behavior of Khabarov and his mates - they were not Russian soldiers but a kind of conquestadors. But they looked not for El Dorado but for furs and silver. In 1649 he started his expedition. He did not pay any attention to the words of some local chiefs that they were tributary tribes of Bogdo-khan. So he sacked the area and Qing authorities decided to send troops to withdraw him from Amur valley. The first battle in 1652 was won by Khabarov. Then Bei-wang Shaerhuda (he was from local tribe named waerke which was a tribute tribe of Qing but forced to pay fur tribute (yasak) to Khabarov and his band personally) was appointed to extirpate Cossaks. He started in very difficult situation - Russian band consisted in 1652 of about of 500 men with 6 gun and 500 mousquets. Manchu had no Bannermen there and local militia had only bows and spears. But Shaerhuda was prominent leader and in 1658 he defeated the main band of Cossaks in the fierce battle in the mouth of Sungari. He had to use not only Chinese, Manchu and local troops, but to invite 200 Korean gunmen with General Shin Ryu. In the battle 370 Russians with 6 guns were outnumbered by 1400 QIng and Korean troops. Almost all of them were killed except for 10 or something like this guys who surrenderd to the Manchus (not to the locals as they hated Cossaks and tortured them to death) and several dozens who fled. They joined to the smaller band and had about 250 men. Shaerhuda planned next raid against them but died in 1659. His son Bahai etirpated Cossaks in battles in 1659 and 1660. Then Manchu troops subdued local tribes which were not Qing tributaries (shiquan guo in the mouth of Amur).

Then it was a pause till 1665. In 1665 a small group of rebels fled to Amur from Ilimsk (a Russian fortress near Baikal). They built a fort and call it Albazin (Yakesa of Qing documents). In 1669 they started to sack local tribes. In 1671 large Manchu squad tried to lay siege to Albazin but failed (the supply was not enough to lay an effective siege). In 1672 Russian Government forgave those rebels and prohibited them to sack local tribes but former rebels did not pay attention at the prohibition. In 1675 Russian Ambassador Nickolay Spathary (Moldavian by origin) was sent to Chiina to set the matter but in vane.

Since 1683 Kanqxi decided to destroy Russian forts on the northern bank of Amur and started the war. Cossaks from Albazin made a lot of crimes against the local tribes and that fact was used by Kangxi to proclaim that Russians were not men but daemos (luocha). In 1685 Qing troops made Albazin to surrender. But Russian Cossaks were hard dies. So they returned and re-built the fort. New Qing army failed to assault the fort and had to lay siege. Then in 1689 in Nerchinsk (Nibuchu of Qing documents) the treaty between Russia and China was signed.

So do not seek for "action film" with Russian agression against China etc. Non-governmental bands of conquistadors like Yerofey Khabarov started the war against local tribes in 1649. Qing Government disliked the lost of influence in the region and joined the war in 1652. And in 1689 the war was rounded up by the first interstate treaty between Russia and China.
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