Full Version: Difficulties in Studying Chinese History
According to many of you, what is the SPECIFIC difficulties in studying Chinese History which you cannot find from other Ancient Historical Civilisations? What is your advice for beginners who start learning?
the strong connection to chinese culture and it's language. the strong Myth influence to fact. maybe.
QUOTE (Boleslaw I @ Mar 19 2008, 01:19 PM) 
According to many of you, what is the SPECIFIC difficulties in studying Chinese History which you cannot find from other Ancient Historical Civilisations? What is your advice for beginners who start learning?
Probably, language is one difficulty and grasping with chinese names for the historical figures. There are so many historical figures in chinese history.
I was going to write in great detail but decided to make a simple post.
My opinion on the difficulties on studying Chinese history would be that it appears to be quite distant from other civilizations.
I'm a little iffy about this but some of the reasons why could be...
Language
(I know it hasn't stop people from studying it but as a non-alphabetic script that takes a bit more effort and time to learn and understand it's full meaning, it is a factor for some).
Religious/Spiritual Philisophical Experience Overview
(I wanted to post a great deal explaining why I think so, but generally speaking, it's different from others as Judeo-Christian-Islamic texts and ideals didn't penetrate very deeply and became in some sense inseperateble part of the cultural identity as many places are. Also I asked before but there doesn't seem to be any Chinese version of Eschatology as many places have or at least I've never heard of it. There's a lot I wish to discuss about this but I hope no one misunderstands me or interpret what I've posted as something else. I just want to say this. If the thinking and believing did not have a lot of some particular elements then it could be a little difficult to study from a point of view which contains those particular elements).
Relationship
(This is just a general sense, it's just with the exception of those with great interests or heritage links, some people might find it a tad bit difficult to study Chinese history because it's a little hard to relate to it. Like even if it wasn't a personal interest or one of those learning about your roots interests, for some people they might find it difficult to see how Chinese history has any relavence to their lives or world history in general for various reasons. This was some issue I sense from my high school and college history courses. However, like I said before, I do not want anyone to misunderstand or interpret what I've posted as something else so I'll leave it at that).
Volume
(I don't think it's specific to Chinese history, but it could be a major factor in that there is so much to learn).
My advice for beginners is to keep remembering why you want to learn Chinese history in the first place that way you could build on that base of interests and fill it with knowledge. It could also determine how far you wish to learn such as maybe wanting to spend the time and effort to study the language, texts, go to school, be part of an Academic program, etc. or simple reading of a few books and conversations.
My opinion on the difficulties on studying Chinese history would be that it appears to be quite distant from other civilizations.
I'm a little iffy about this but some of the reasons why could be...
Language
(I know it hasn't stop people from studying it but as a non-alphabetic script that takes a bit more effort and time to learn and understand it's full meaning, it is a factor for some).
Religious/Spiritual Philisophical Experience Overview
(I wanted to post a great deal explaining why I think so, but generally speaking, it's different from others as Judeo-Christian-Islamic texts and ideals didn't penetrate very deeply and became in some sense inseperateble part of the cultural identity as many places are. Also I asked before but there doesn't seem to be any Chinese version of Eschatology as many places have or at least I've never heard of it. There's a lot I wish to discuss about this but I hope no one misunderstands me or interpret what I've posted as something else. I just want to say this. If the thinking and believing did not have a lot of some particular elements then it could be a little difficult to study from a point of view which contains those particular elements).
Relationship
(This is just a general sense, it's just with the exception of those with great interests or heritage links, some people might find it a tad bit difficult to study Chinese history because it's a little hard to relate to it. Like even if it wasn't a personal interest or one of those learning about your roots interests, for some people they might find it difficult to see how Chinese history has any relavence to their lives or world history in general for various reasons. This was some issue I sense from my high school and college history courses. However, like I said before, I do not want anyone to misunderstand or interpret what I've posted as something else so I'll leave it at that).
Volume
(I don't think it's specific to Chinese history, but it could be a major factor in that there is so much to learn).
My advice for beginners is to keep remembering why you want to learn Chinese history in the first place that way you could build on that base of interests and fill it with knowledge. It could also determine how far you wish to learn such as maybe wanting to spend the time and effort to study the language, texts, go to school, be part of an Academic program, etc. or simple reading of a few books and conversations.
Hi Boleslaw,
For a westerner, I think there are two major difficulties.
First one is the language, not because Chinese is more difficult than other (ancient) languages (all languages are difficult to master), but because whereas your learning of greek and latin will be helped by roots and structures which exist in your language, chinese is completely alien, and not taught at all in classical western education. So basically, you need to spend quite a bit of time mastering it.
Second one is the cultural references. Chinese authors have always been very fond of cultural allusions, like quoting another event, or person, or story in reference to some situation. So, to understand some texts (historical texts) you often need a lot of "cultural background". I've been told this is a difficulty even for modern chinese, who have chinese culture as their national culture, even more so for a foreigner. Just to give an example, european intellectuals would use many references to Christianity and the Bible, in their writings. If you have no background on this, learning will be hard. I is just the same with chinese.
Francois
For a westerner, I think there are two major difficulties.
First one is the language, not because Chinese is more difficult than other (ancient) languages (all languages are difficult to master), but because whereas your learning of greek and latin will be helped by roots and structures which exist in your language, chinese is completely alien, and not taught at all in classical western education. So basically, you need to spend quite a bit of time mastering it.
Second one is the cultural references. Chinese authors have always been very fond of cultural allusions, like quoting another event, or person, or story in reference to some situation. So, to understand some texts (historical texts) you often need a lot of "cultural background". I've been told this is a difficulty even for modern chinese, who have chinese culture as their national culture, even more so for a foreigner. Just to give an example, european intellectuals would use many references to Christianity and the Bible, in their writings. If you have no background on this, learning will be hard. I is just the same with chinese.
Francois
QUOTE (Boleslaw I @ Mar 19 2008, 01:19 PM)
According to many of you, what is the SPECIFIC difficulties in studying Chinese History which you cannot find from other Ancient Historical Civilisations? What is your advice for beginners who start learning?
For me, it would be the names of the Chinese characters and the dates of the events and rules. I always have difficulties remembering the dates which the events happened/ended as there are countless events in China History (China has one of the longest history among the countries of the world). I can easily get confused especially if it was something like battles and wars as the dates seem almost the same (there are so many battles fought in China, especially during the Spring and Autumn Period and Warring States Period, and some battles were fought at the same times among different countries and some in the same year). However, in most of the other Ancient Historical Civilisations, not as many battles were fought as compared to China, which was in chaos in certain periods and dynasties.
Names. There are countless names of historical figures, and sometimes, the names are very similar like King Zhuang of Chu or maybe King Zhuang of Qin. Sometimes, you might even get mixed up with both of them, and think that King Zhuang of Qin is actually the one which "surprises everyone", while actually it is King Zhuang of the Chu kingdom. See how confusing it is, to share the same "Zhuang" word?
That's why I like CHF and hate history exams (although I have only sat for one), because in CHF, we are allowed to "open our books" and we do not have to memorise and slog through the facts. But when you discuss about this certain event or character, you actually memorise them. However, for history exams, you just have to cram everything in your brain; the dates, names and events.....
My first advice for beginners to learn about Chinese History would be:
Patience. Yes, sometimes, in Chinese History, you might see different arguements or opinions being presented and scholars might not agree with one another, thus they write conflicting accounts. One must be able to sieve through the piece of information given and spot the biasnesses and inconsistencies, as well as the unnecessary information and twisted facts. That is a very tedious job, and a person who has no patience will not be able to sustain himself or herself as it might require that person to refer and research on external sources. So, personally, the first step to learning Chinese History is to develop your tolerance and your patience.
"China has one of the longest history among the countries of the world"
China has one of the longest book-written or recorded history among the countries of the world,
obviously, Egypt has a much more longer history, but not recorded in books. Babylonia, India, Isreal, Persia, Helen may also.
"there are so many battles fought in China, especially during the Spring and Autumn Period and Warring States Period"
I think wars were more frequent and brutal in the Age of Fragment( I call it the Age of Chaos, corresponding to the age after the fallen of Rome in Europe)
China has one of the longest book-written or recorded history among the countries of the world,
obviously, Egypt has a much more longer history, but not recorded in books. Babylonia, India, Isreal, Persia, Helen may also.
"there are so many battles fought in China, especially during the Spring and Autumn Period and Warring States Period"
I think wars were more frequent and brutal in the Age of Fragment( I call it the Age of Chaos, corresponding to the age after the fallen of Rome in Europe)
QUOTE (fcharton @ Mar 19 2008, 04:25 PM)
Hi Boleslaw,
For a westerner, I think there are two major difficulties.
First one is the language, not because Chinese is more difficult than other (ancient) languages (all languages are difficult to master), but because whereas your learning of greek and latin will be helped by roots and structures which exist in your language, chinese is completely alien, and not taught at all in classical western education. So basically, you need to spend quite a bit of time mastering it.
Second one is the cultural references. Chinese authors have always been very fond of cultural allusions, like quoting another event, or person, or story in reference to some situation. So, to understand some texts (historical texts) you often need a lot of "cultural background". I've been told this is a difficulty even for modern chinese, who have chinese culture as their national culture, even more so for a foreigner. Just to give an example, european intellectuals would use many references to Christianity and the Bible, in their writings. If you have no background on this, learning will be hard. I is just the same with chinese.
Francois
For a westerner, I think there are two major difficulties.
First one is the language, not because Chinese is more difficult than other (ancient) languages (all languages are difficult to master), but because whereas your learning of greek and latin will be helped by roots and structures which exist in your language, chinese is completely alien, and not taught at all in classical western education. So basically, you need to spend quite a bit of time mastering it.
Second one is the cultural references. Chinese authors have always been very fond of cultural allusions, like quoting another event, or person, or story in reference to some situation. So, to understand some texts (historical texts) you often need a lot of "cultural background". I've been told this is a difficulty even for modern chinese, who have chinese culture as their national culture, even more so for a foreigner. Just to give an example, european intellectuals would use many references to Christianity and the Bible, in their writings. If you have no background on this, learning will be hard. I is just the same with chinese.
Francois
Apart from first (language) and second (cultural reference and metaphors), a basic difference is in the structure of the Chinese Character.
A Chinese Character consists of Radicals.
The integration of radicals into forming a character is in fact an integration process - AND process.
IOW, the focus is in the mapping of a bigger conceptual picture, as a result of habitual integration of radicals into character, to those frequent users of the characters.
E.g.
The Heaven can be a God to a typical Chinese, along with Her many faces (in definitions).
Not the case in a "Romanized" God, i guess ... ( well I'm not sure!
)To the West, the God is always ONE, and the only ONE.
As an American, the biggest hurdle for me is the dearth of good translations of source material. As an example, I am a miniatures wargamer interested in the Han Dynasty. I have been trying since 1973 to learn as much as I can about the military structure, weapons, tactics et al of that period. I can find almost as many good books in English on that subject as the fingers on my hands IF I am very lucky. Contrast that with the mass of information on the contemporary system of the Roman Legio - whole libraries have been devoted to it!
In line with this is the gradual taking over of the published works in Chinese by the Confucian scholars, who disdained and suppressed any mention of anything martial or contradictory to their philosophy, and it gets a mite limited in usefulness. Bureaucracy was both the greatest achievement and the greatest bane to the entire dynastic history of China.
Also as time goes on, the excavations of things like the Terracotta Army and the tomb at Golden Swallow Mountain are causing total revisions of what WAS published, and most of THAT is also not being translated into English. This is understandable as they are still working on it in Chinese, yet knowing that the work is going on yet not able to see the results is frustrating! Notice that all of this is in the context of an amateur historian/wargamer, and not as a professional historian.
In line with this is the gradual taking over of the published works in Chinese by the Confucian scholars, who disdained and suppressed any mention of anything martial or contradictory to their philosophy, and it gets a mite limited in usefulness. Bureaucracy was both the greatest achievement and the greatest bane to the entire dynastic history of China.
Also as time goes on, the excavations of things like the Terracotta Army and the tomb at Golden Swallow Mountain are causing total revisions of what WAS published, and most of THAT is also not being translated into English. This is understandable as they are still working on it in Chinese, yet knowing that the work is going on yet not able to see the results is frustrating! Notice that all of this is in the context of an amateur historian/wargamer, and not as a professional historian.
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