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galvatron
Archaeologists: Chinese porcelain likely originates in Zhejiang smile.gif
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/...ent_8052459.htm


HANGZHOU, April 25 (Xinhua) -- Chinese archaeologists said on Friday their latest findings showed the country's ancient porcelain likely originated in Deqing, an east Zhejiang Province county.

The sites of more than 30 ancient porcelain kilns from the Shang, Western Zhou and Eastern Zhou dynasties (1600 B.C. to 256 B.C.) were found in Deqing, indicating the area as the birthplace and center of the country's ancient porcelain activities, archaeologists agreed in Deqing

In the latest excavations from early 2007 to present, archaeologists found 10 porcelain kiln sites from the ancient periods in the Huoshaoshan and Tingziqiao areas.

A number of pieces of porcelain, such as bowls, plates and pots, were unearthed in the two areas. They were believed to be made for the then royal families and high-ranking nobles.

The unearthed porcelain pieces covered all kinds of ancient porcelain works that archaeologist had found in recent years in the country's southern region, according to experts.

"Just as man should trace its roots and ancestors, this new and important discovery ensures me that the celadon works popular in recent years in society, collected by the National Museum of Chinaor individuals or even found in markets abroad, their headstream was in Deqing," said Geng Baochang, China Ancient Ceramic Institute chairman.

From the samples of unearthed porcelain pieces, "the porcelain should have been elaborate works in terms of the shaping crafts, quality and making technologies", said Wang Liying, the institute's vice chairwoman.

She said the physical features of the porcelain can be comparable to those of porcelain works produced in the Eastern Han Dynasty (25-220). Chinese archaeologists previously believed the well-developed porcelain works appeared in the Eastern Han Dynasty.

China has a long history of porcelain and pottery production as ceramic products, along with silk, were the favorite exports in ancient times. The earliest-known porcelain dates back to the Shang Dynasty (1600 B.C. to 1100 B.C.).

"China has a splendid history of porcelain," said Qin Dashu, a Peking University professor. "The excavations of porcelain sites in Deqing are just a small part. We believe more archaeological achievements will come with further research." cool.gif
fcharton
Hehe, so it seems that porcelain is afflicted by the "1000 years older than previously thought" syndrom...

I have the impression Xinhua confuses here ceramics and porcelain. Porcelain describes a relatively specific type of ceramics, which, by using very pure material and cooking it at high temperatures has become totally vitrified, to the point that it is partially translucent.
It is agreed that China produced porcelain in the Sui and Tang dynasty (6th century CE), although Sui and early Tang porcelain is much cruder than later pieces. There has been some debate on whether previous wares could qualiify, and some experts consider that porcelain begins the late Eastern Han (3rd century CE), but the Shang, ie 1500 years before, seem a little far back...

There was of course lots of fine ceramics before the Sui, but this is not porcelain.

Francois
kaiselin
QUOTE (fcharton @ Apr 27 2008, 04:02 PM) *
Hehe, so it seems that porcelain is afflicted by the "1000 years older than previously thought" syndrom...

I have the impression Xinhua confuses here ceramics and porcelain. Porcelain describes a relatively specific type of ceramics, which, by using very pure material and cooking it at high temperatures has become totally vitrified, to the point that it is partially translucent.
It is agreed that China produced porcelain in the Sui and Tang dynasty (6th century CE), although Sui and early Tang porcelain is much cruder than later pieces. There has been some debate on whether previous wares could qualiify, and some experts consider that porcelain begins the late Eastern Han (3rd century CE), but the Shang, ie 1500 years before, seem a little far back...

There was of course lots of fine ceramics before the Sui, but this is not porcelain.

Francois


Thank you for clarifying that Francois,

While you never know what might be unearthed to legitimately change the "older then previously thought" ideas, I thought that was a bit early for porcelain.

Once again it is such a shame Xinhua rarely posts pictures along with these announcements of "great" finds. That in itself makes some of their claims suspect.
General_Zhaoyun
I think, Xinhua faces some translation issue here. Again, it makes sense to read the original chinese source, rather than relying on translation, which can be problematic or wrong sometimes.

In China, the generic term used for 'ceramic' is called "Tao Ci 陶瓷", which often combines 'porcelain' and 'ceramic' under the same family.

Normally, if we were to separate them and be more specific, porcelain are known in chinese as 'Tao Qi 陶器' while ceramic are known as "Ci Qi 瓷器". In the west, they are normally separated and thus avoid the confusion. Porcelain tends to have an earlier history of development in China than the common 'ceramic' that we've heard of.

If I'm not wrong, Ceramic tends to develop from Song period onwards.
fcharton
QUOTE (General_Zhaoyun @ Apr 28 2008, 12:15 PM) *
I think, Xinhua faces some translation issue here. Again, it makes sense to read the original chinese source, rather than relying on translation, which can be problematic or wrong sometimes.

In China, the generic term used for 'ceramic' is called "Tao Ci 陶瓷", which often combines 'porcelain' and 'ceramic' under the same family.

Normally, if we were to separate them and be more specific, porcelain are known in chinese as 'Tao Qi 陶器' while ceramic are known as "Ci Qi 瓷器". In the west, they are normally separated and thus avoid the confusion. Porcelain tends to have an earlier history of development in China than the common 'ceramic' that we've heard of.

If I'm not wrong, Ceramic tends to develop from Song period onwards.


It is the other way around... Ceramic is the older, and more general, technique, whereas porcelain is the specific and later technique. Song is considered the moment when chinese porcelain reached its prime, Sui and Tang did produce porcelain too.

As for Xinhua, I would agree, but I can't help noticing that their translation issues always seem to fall on the patriotic side... What I find a bit tiring is that those stories get quoted and requoted, until they become "accepted truths" (I'm pretty sure this claim will make its way to wikipedia, sooner or later...)

Francois
changsham
QUOTE (fcharton @ Apr 28 2008, 08:27 PM) *
It is the other way around... Ceramic is the older, and more general, technique, whereas porcelain is the specific and later technique. Song is considered the moment when chinese porcelain reached its prime, Sui and Tang did produce porcelain too.

As for Xinhua, I would agree, but I can't help noticing that their translation issues always seem to fall on the patriotic side... What I find a bit tiring is that those stories get quoted and requoted, until they become "accepted truths" (I'm pretty sure this claim will make its way to wikipedia, sooner or later...)

Francois


Yes, ceramics covers the whole spectrum of pottery including porcelain, stonewares and earthenwares using any suitable clay. Ceramics were made from neolithic times. Porcelain as we know it is generally thought to have stated in the Song era and perfected during the Yuan. The key ingredient was Kaolin clay found in the Jingdezhen area. For an item to be classified as porcelain it must be high temperature fired, have hard fine white or near white ceramic which is translucent when thinly potted.

Regards
Paul
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