Full Version: What is actually a 'changdao'?
Is it true it has something to do with swordsmen?
I believe it has more to do with the horsemen or horse soldiers if it is what I think it is. It is something used by the horsemen when charging at one or a group of foot soldiers. It is a wonderful weapon to harvest lives from the horse back!!! Basically, it would NOT be used by a swordsman!!! Swordsmen would be using the Chinese swords. In addition, the Chinese Da Dao is different from the Chinese sword, and a person who uses Da Dao is different from a person who use a Chinese sword and a person who use a Chang Dao (Long Dao -- I always call Dao as Knife and NOT sword because it looks more like a large knife than a proper sword)!
Correction.
It is a swordsman's weapon, translated as "Long Saber". That is basically what it is. It dates to the Ming Dynasty, and was designed by Qi Jiguang for use on the Northern Border. it is based on the Japanese Nodachi that Qi Jiguang had seen the Wokou use, and had an anti-cavalry function.
From Thomas Chen's site:
The Changdao was issued to musketeers and a good deal of the non-artillery troops under Qi Jiguang.
I believe Fireball's perception of the Chang Dao is of the long handled glaives sometimes used by cavalry (a la the Yin Yue Dao/Guan Dao), and her idea of a "Sword" is that of a Jian (which would have been fairly out of place by the Ming Dynasty as a sword for infantry swordsmen, who would have used Dao).
Also, in my opinion, Dao is best translated as "Saber", as "Knife" would imply a small, short bladed tool (though I suppose the translation is better than "broadsword"). A saber though carries the connotation of a sword-length usually military weapon with a single edge (and usually a curve), though I prefer to apply the term to Zhi Bei Dao (straight backed Dao) as well.
It is a swordsman's weapon, translated as "Long Saber". That is basically what it is. It dates to the Ming Dynasty, and was designed by Qi Jiguang for use on the Northern Border. it is based on the Japanese Nodachi that Qi Jiguang had seen the Wokou use, and had an anti-cavalry function.
From Thomas Chen's site:
QUOTE
These large 2-handed sabers were first used by the Northern Border Troops under the command of Ming General Qi Jiguang in the late 1560s-70s to deal with Mongol cavalry, and remained in use right up to the late Ming (1620s-1644). At that time, these sabers had an overall specified length of 1.95 meters. General Qi, who lived from 1528-1587, had written the influential training manual "Lian Bing Shi Ji" while he was the commanding and training officer for several northern units bordering Mongolia. Commanding about 100,000 men, some of the best troops of the Ming empire, he had successfully deterred Mongol aggression at the border for over 10 years.
QUOTE
One simple and specific training technique for General Qi's soldiers wielding the Miao Dao is to setup two thick wooden poles, one short and one long, spaced 2 feet apart.
The soldier will then use the Chang Dao like a zhanmadao, bending low while advancing and striking first at the bottom part of the shorter pole to simulate cutting through the horse's legs, afterwhich he will raise and turn slightly to strike the upper part of the longer pole, simulating the strike on the horse's head -- A practical scenario for when the horse dies, the enemy soldier/rider loses his mobility and becomes meat on the platter for the Chinese soldiers.
General Qi had also stipulated compulsory 2-person combat drills using wooden sticks for mock practice, for use in his army.
The soldier will then use the Chang Dao like a zhanmadao, bending low while advancing and striking first at the bottom part of the shorter pole to simulate cutting through the horse's legs, afterwhich he will raise and turn slightly to strike the upper part of the longer pole, simulating the strike on the horse's head -- A practical scenario for when the horse dies, the enemy soldier/rider loses his mobility and becomes meat on the platter for the Chinese soldiers.
General Qi had also stipulated compulsory 2-person combat drills using wooden sticks for mock practice, for use in his army.
The Changdao was issued to musketeers and a good deal of the non-artillery troops under Qi Jiguang.
I believe Fireball's perception of the Chang Dao is of the long handled glaives sometimes used by cavalry (a la the Yin Yue Dao/Guan Dao), and her idea of a "Sword" is that of a Jian (which would have been fairly out of place by the Ming Dynasty as a sword for infantry swordsmen, who would have used Dao).
Also, in my opinion, Dao is best translated as "Saber", as "Knife" would imply a small, short bladed tool (though I suppose the translation is better than "broadsword"). A saber though carries the connotation of a sword-length usually military weapon with a single edge (and usually a curve), though I prefer to apply the term to Zhi Bei Dao (straight backed Dao) as well.
Hi Yong Zongbao, your post said pretty much what I am trying to say. I did NOT have detailed info about General Qi's Changdao, so I don't know the differences between it and the older Changdao. I thought I have read that Qi's Changdao was some what from the old Changdao's tradition with added improvement and influence of the newer Japanese sword.
To me, the term, sword and swordsmen/swordswomen, are associated with upper class and elegance and nobilities. Daos of any kinds are associated with strong warriors and more or less lower class soldiers and military commanders/officers. Like you said, the sword I have been mentioning are the "Jian" in Chinese. Dao is like you said, "sabre" or one edged broad swords in the West.
I hope you will upgrade your account on that site or get another picture of the real Ming dynasty Changdao (preferably with an ancient Ma-Dao to compare with).
To me, the term, sword and swordsmen/swordswomen, are associated with upper class and elegance and nobilities. Daos of any kinds are associated with strong warriors and more or less lower class soldiers and military commanders/officers. Like you said, the sword I have been mentioning are the "Jian" in Chinese. Dao is like you said, "sabre" or one edged broad swords in the West.
I hope you will upgrade your account on that site or get another picture of the real Ming dynasty Changdao (preferably with an ancient Ma-Dao to compare with).
Hey Fireball,
Though I think I have knowledge on weapons that exceeds most people, I think that we shall have to wait for more qualified people than you or I to join the discussion with heavy duty history. I have not heard of any sort of older "Changdao", just different kinds of different two-handed sabers. For the purposes of this discussion, I use Changdao to refer to the specific Ming Dynasty weapon.
To me, the term "Swordsman" usually refers to a soldier who wields a sword (with any sort of civilian sword players coming as only secondary to this perception). The Dao obviously to me would fit under my definition of the "Swordsman"'s arsenal as a subtype of sword (as an umbrella term rather than specific).
The Dao is a military weapon, yes, though I believe as late as the Song dynasty, military men were using Jian as well (though the one in the statue I saw was very robust).
Though I think I have knowledge on weapons that exceeds most people, I think that we shall have to wait for more qualified people than you or I to join the discussion with heavy duty history. I have not heard of any sort of older "Changdao", just different kinds of different two-handed sabers. For the purposes of this discussion, I use Changdao to refer to the specific Ming Dynasty weapon.
To me, the term "Swordsman" usually refers to a soldier who wields a sword (with any sort of civilian sword players coming as only secondary to this perception). The Dao obviously to me would fit under my definition of the "Swordsman"'s arsenal as a subtype of sword (as an umbrella term rather than specific).
The Dao is a military weapon, yes, though I believe as late as the Song dynasty, military men were using Jian as well (though the one in the statue I saw was very robust).
Oops, I forgot Thomas Chen's site didn;t allow remote linking. 
"长刀"/changdao/Chinese-long-sword
does it got anything to do with the japanese sword ,they looks quite similiar, and if it's a chinese weapon it seems quite rare to me
QUOTE (zizizi @ Jun 3 2008, 02:39 AM) 
"长刀"/changdao/Chinese-long-sword
GOOD LORD!!! Vampire Hunter D must of bought his sword off of that guy.
another
QUOTE (rookie @ Jun 3 2008, 04:17 AM)
does it got anything to do with the japanese sword ,they looks quite similiar, and if it's a chinese weapon it seems quite rare to me
The weapon was inspired by the Japanese Nodachi Qi Jiguang saw pirates using. It was a widely issued weapon on the northern border in the Ming Dynasty after Qi Jiguang took command.
Also, Zizizi, where did you get those pictures? I think I saw the first a while before, but I lost it.
From the pictures, it looks like this is a single edged weapon. Is that correct?
Yep, it is. Hence, it's a dao.
QUOTE (Yang Zongbao @ Jun 5 2008, 03:47 AM)
Yep, it is. Hence, it's a dao.
Sorry, but I don't speak Chinese, hence what might sound like a silly question. Thanks for the clarification. What is a two edged sword called?
What is a two edged sword called?
"剑"/jian
"剑"/jian
QUOTE (William O'Chee @ Jun 4 2008, 06:15 PM)
Sorry, but I don't speak Chinese, hence what might sound like a silly question. Thanks for the clarification. What is a two edged sword called?
No no, I realize I may have sounded more condescending than I meant to. Sorry!
And yep, two edged swords are called Jian. The Dao is best translated as "Saber", and the Jian as just "Sword".
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