when i watch the documentary of chinese martial arts,it is obvious that this chinese jian is very flexible and seems light to be handle...
my question is
1.can today's chinese martial arts weapon like i mentioned above kills?
(look like alumium/plastic weapon to me)

2.is this chinese jian easy to broken?
(know this from a documentary that says that Japanese adopted katana as their Chinese jian is easy to broken)

okay no offense, but your question made me fly into a fit of rage as a Chinese swordsman myself

the Chinese Jian is not flexible, those are performance WuShu weapons or bad kung fu schools use them. I think i've mentioned this before directly to you.

stop watching kung fu movies





this sword above weighs 7 pounds and can punch through a car door, definitely not flexible

Chill man, WuShu doesn't make the Jian terrible. They don't want their students to use actual swords when practicing. The masters don't want their student's heads lopped off by accident. A foil jian, spear, whatever is much safer. When you get to a very advanced level, then you get to practice with the real kind used in combat.

And all the kung fu movies I've watched have real weapons, not foils.

btw, i didn't actually fly into a fit of rage but things dealing with "floppy Qing Era Chinese Jian" irk me quite alot

define "real weapons". most kung fu schools i see stainless steel false blades(look real, feel real, not real)

my school used carbon and/or combat steel live blades but we left them unsharpened for safety purposes. we used wooden replicas for fencing practice. 90% of "gong fu" schools don't have fencing exercises either

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today's "kung fu" is laughable anyway, i went to a seminar supposedly about Qi Men Jian Fa and the instructor not only clearly was teaching a bad version of it(probably not his fault since the forms were tainted long ago) but he got his history all wrong (Qi Men Jian is from General Qi, its military) yet he passed it off as "Northern Shaolin"

(the instructor showed a basic thrust and his empty hand was extended full in the opposite direction, making it easy for someone one the site to remove his arm quite easily. This is obviously a tainted form since General Qi's technique was essentially meant to fence against multiple opponents)

i'm very sensitive when it comes to Wu Gong (i don't use the term "kung fu" either) because real Chinese martial arts are on the verge of extinction especially in the sword and archery department. we don't need any more stereotypes

that's ok........i mean no offense also

how heavy is the heaviest jian?
(if there is)

does that ancient chinese soldier have swordmanship mastery?
(do they have swordmanship training?)

do you know what is huet tik chi?

that jian that you post above is very nice......is it yours?

again...no offense.......

Hasy, from what i understand Jian, at least the longer versions used in martial arts were not very common on the battle field, most "Jian" on the battle field were more Roman gladius like short swords, while Dao (one edged blades) tend to be far more common (of course.. the definition of a dao is simply one edged.. so it obviously had a great variety)

Also putting a lot of the words in Chinese might be easier for use to understand, a lot of the direct translation are very hard to understand due to the different spelling ways and also due to the fact that it might come from different dialect, usually i don't suggest using it unless it's very commonly known people/place/things

certain shuang shou jian 雙手劍 can be up to 7-8 pounds.

the dao (saber) adapted from the Nomads became popular during the later part of the Han dynasty, before that, all cavalrymen were equipped with a Jian as a sidearm and a polearm and bow/arrow as their main weapon

the "katana" blade (first developed in China) was a combination of the fencing accuracy of the Chinese straight Jian and the slashing power of the nomad saber in case you were curious

Entirely agreed on the comments 浪淘音 made on the modern Wushu blades.
It is lighter for training, but the bendiness also makes for sound and snap 'POW' when thrusting.
It is not a real weapon but now the Kung Fu movies use them too (i.e Hero etc.) and show a sword like this bend and yet cleave a shield in two.

I have heard commented before the modern Wushu style is not true Chinese swordmanship...It is atheletic, displined and incredible but certain strikes are quite flawed even if looking great aesthetically or dramatically. It certainly sacrifices a lot for the 'art' aspect....and even modern 'Shaolin' kung fu in the East is mainly modern invention with aspects of original excercise or form altered. Kung fu schools build on the periphery of a temple and then charge people to come learn 'Shaolin' form. SOme of it is directly like the monks excercise at (balance excercises and stances)...but even modern Shaolin is a post-cultural revolution construction.
A shame...but I learn what is on offer. I would never NEVER be able to work 99% of what I learn in modern Wushu into a real application...it is quite altered or simply fantasy.
Even in 'House of Flying Daggers' the big end fight degenerated into head butts and elbows by the exhausted combatants end. Funny how most stlyes that meet will have to end up getting back to basics. Direct, simple, not flowery. As one of my early instructors said "Keep it basic, all that form and complex technique will go out the window as soon as you get hit hard'' so all the spiraling and aerial grandoise stances will go out the window as soon as pain or fatigue sets in. Best to just knock them out, and try to avoid being knocked out.....rather than putting aesthetics in there for no purpose.
浪淘音 It you have found somebody who trains at real Kung Fu I envy you....

Actually, I have a question....
How much emphasis is put on blocking sword strikes with a sword in real application?

I assume like any sensible from, evasion is first and most desirable, and blocking comes second.....but in sword combat roughly what emphasis is qiven to countering with your own blade?
i.e; 80% evasion 20% blocking?

I am curious because just like heavy blocking with limbs can result in injury in what way is a sword block correctly practiced?, and is the risk of weapon damage noted in this?
Certainly ancient swordsmen would not want to clash swords directly.
Any thoughts?

I don't think Hero had floppy blades.

well... in fencing... where the purpose is scoring (and it's not fatal) getting the attack is always important. But in real fighting, I wouldn't know

I can guess though.
evasion is sensible, but killing is first and desirable. I think it's also a bit of both, evasion and blocking. It's not one or the other, both are in tandem. Someone thrusts, I take a step back, move slightly to one side, while pressing the blade away from my body.
At least in fencing... when I block, it's not like their sword hits a wall, it is more like I press/beat my blade against theirs to change the angle it's coming in. I'm also moving my body, so minimal movement in both aspects combines for a good defense.

In mass combat though, there's not as much room for movement

I've also heard that Wushu was promoted by the CCP to keep the people from learning lethal combat styles. In certain times of Japan, karate forms were like that. A civilian form developed, while the government taught their troops a more lethal form.

Something I have never understood.

When talking about Chinese Martial Arts, why do people ALWAYS look to the PRC invented wushu first and then to movies second ? Seriously, neither of them are indeed sources for traditional chinese martial arts in any sense of the word. Even if one is not a martial artist one can easily see that these are not historical sources.

For the first, if anyone knows anything about CMA in china, they would know it practically went extinct after the cultural revolution. And they invented this new system for performance and health reasons. Not for fighting. Only shadows of the old arts remain in areas like Hong Kong, US and Southeast Asia for those lucky enoguh to have escaped. But even those are getting squeezed out by the modern trend of sterotyping and market demand.

As for the second, it is like looking at Rambo movies to see what the vietnam war was like and arnold movies to see what..... well..... just any US military is like. I honestly am baffled as to why people even attack those 'sources'. Saying things like "well in real life people don't fly around or walk on water". I honestly don't think ANY Chinese artist with half a brain cell actually claims they can.

Why people ? why why why ????

I don't see anything flagrantly wrong with USING Wushu weapons...it's not heresy, but it doesn't feel right, but noone's head gets chopped off...but there is a lacking feel from not using and feeling what a real weapon would be like.

What's wrong is when people take that to be real, take Wushu weapons to be Chinese Weapons, not practice weapons. This is where the stereotypes sprung up that Jian is all stabbing, Jian is Weak compared to Dao and Katana, and Chinese Swords are flexible all come from.

When what's false is taken to be the truth, that is very wrong.

Then there's the myth that all martial arts came from Shaolin...I won't even go into that.

But watch out for stereotypes. They're everywhere, and always wrong...like the belief that the Jian was light, flexible, and weak in comparison.

BTW: Most Jian are in the 2lb range.

heheh. You will find a few into Traditional Chinese Medicine people that literally do believe in flying and such. Chi Gung masters. Zoom!
I find all the 'wire Fu' absolutely silly.
Jet Li or any one of them defy gravity as it is....they just throw their bodys and legs through the air in amazing ways through athleticism, when watching the 'House of flying Daggers' yesterday both me and my wife had to groan when the obligatory flying started.
The first sequence where the 'blind' girl is performing a dance with Wushu movements showed such control and grace without any of the wires I dont know why they don't just leave the movie to reveal the very real physical talents of the cast. They are amazing, as is Jet Li. THats what keeps me doing a false martial art like the CCP sanctioned Wushu. It is flashy fun! (well, sort of, it's actually more like torture I suppose).
TMPicachu "I don't think Hero had floppy blades. " The main character had this blade, that bent....was hollow in the middle for catching anothers blade and yet it hewed through armour with ease when needed. Looks cool, but it is fantasy.
Crouching Tiger was another example....the 'Green Destiny' bendy bendy sword from Shang times (HA! I will still post that info on real SHang swords when it arrives from Taiwan...hopefully) I love the movie, but not the wire fu. Again they are a talented enough cast without flying....and Heros fight on the water in Jesus style. Golly. Too much.
I love good Kung Fu movies but it always makes me groan.
One of the best physical performances I have seen was the young JAckie Chan in Drunken MAster II. Those Beijing Opera types are amazing too!


Sorry...getting off topic. But the bendy swords are not real Chinese weapons.

there is NO excuse to use performance WuShu weapons

here are common excuses made by certain forum members as well as some people in general

1. WuShu "weapons" are good because they are safe IE non-sharp
2. Since they weigh absolutely nothing, its good beginner training

complete and utter nonsense

The Rebuttal to those excuses

1. They make false blades which have the same weight, look and feel of a real sword but its non-sharp stainless steel, so therefore you can train with a weapon thats almost real without cutting yourself at all. There is no need to use a floppy pseudo weapon like wushu blades
B. all live blades (sharp high carbon combat steel swords) are made with a choice to leave the blade dull or hand sharpened. you can have a real sword but simply not sharpen it so it wont be that dangerous

2. You're supposed to train with something heavy so your muscles become use to coordinating a large piece of steel around. I had at least 4 girls at my old kung fu school who could wield a 5 pound shuang shou jian with ease, grace and power.

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90% of kung fu schools are just as bad as Wushu practioners when it comes to "effeminate approaches to sword training" as i like to call it.

one time, my school was performing in an event with other schools. One of the students from the other school forgot his sword so i offered mine for him to use. he drew the blade and you could tell that it was far too heavy for him and it was just a standard (but real) high carbon steel jian which was no more than 3 pounds

Actually, I think the excuse is not that it looks good, but it sounds good.

I think that things like the PRC wushu and simpified chinese characters is a real slap on the face on Chinese culture. And to think that most mainland chinese thinks that there are the good stuff.......

I like the idea of spreading real martial arts again
But I still like wuxia movies. I don't think it has to be one or the other. I can think Lord of the Rings is awesome, and still appreciate accounts of real battles.

I can watch Dragon Ball, or Hero, or Journey To the West, and then put in a Pride FC video.

I think the flying scenes are a nice staple of Wuxia films. Do you really have to groan when you watch them? It's a Wuxia film! It's like watching Cinderella and going "hey, you can't do that with a pumpkin!"

But it WOULD be really cool to see a history/fantasy/something with swords movie where the action was more 'real'.

But Wuxia films are still fun.

Qing era Jian tend to be light and quick. The ones I've encountered were 2 pounds or under and quite stiff. Swords are not suppose to be heavy of course. Speed is the essence. Even European hand-and-a-half swords which are popularly depicted as heavy were in fact more like 2.75 pounds. Anything over 3 pounds is a special application weapon not meant for duelling.

I was trained on the katana in Iaijutsu. For sparring we used wooden swords, for forms we used an aluminum replica, advanced students had real swords for cutting practice.

The alumium swords, or iaitos, were also stiff and nearly the weight of a real sword. If Wushu were to standardize equipment, I highly recommend this alumium approach over those flimsy stainless steel foils. If you don't train realistically, there's no point training at all. Iaijutsu's main focus is the quick draw. It is therefore extremely important to use equipment true to the real thing.

One problem I have with wuxia films is the ahistoric portral of weapons. It's very common to see the use of oxtail sabres in movies set in ancient times when this weapon was only invented after Qianlong Emperor's reign. Yet we see them in Song Dynasty period movies.

The one sword that was extremely common was the willow leaf sabre, but you almost never see it in a wuxia movie. Modern Wushu doesnot even teach it.

really? Yeah, historic innacuracies like that should be fixed, if it really doesn't change much.

Other things, like Romance of the Three Kingdoms with Ming era armor, I think is too heavily engrained to bother changing.

Hi TmPichachu,
the reason I groan is that they could just make REAL martial arts movies as the actors are amazingly good and dont need Special FX to hide their talents.
I am blown away by the physicality of certain cast members.
They have real explosive power! When I see they somersault or explode into a amazingly quick and perfect sequence I have nothing but respect.
My main beef is...why bother with the wire crap. I find the real stuff 100x more impressive in every way...but they dont just stick to it when it is just as visually impressive and recognaisable as pure power and athleticism to rival any proffesional olympic competitor..

The commentson CCP/PRC altering of Wushu and Chinese characters. HellYes! It is shameful. especially simplifying written characters standardised and functiuonal since QIn, so that modern mainlanders will find the original script incresingly difficult. Why alter something uniquely timeless in the cultures of the world? Meddling.
I do assume my modern Wushu instructor from SHangdong doenst even know how much her stlye is watered down...but it isnt for me to criticise an instructiors stlye. Like it or lump it. But it is a shame.

As for heavy baldes, and light blades. The lighter training blade may be one aspect, but it was more the form that makes me think they choose bendy snap and audible dramatic blades for the visul aspect rather than wimpiness...cuase Wushu is more demanding pysically than many martial arts. They are silly swords though, but I do have 2 other functional Chinese swords. I have a heavy broadsword I will practice with away from the club, so the forms with the light Wushu jian should be so so easy after that.
Just like Karate Gojo Ryu, train movements with heavy hand weights to strenghten the arms for strikes. I makes sense...so just using light blade weapons is not ideal in the long run.

You'd expect a 7 year old to wield a 3 pound sword? I was watching a documentry on Jet Li's old Martial Arts classes. When he was 7 or 8, he was using the flimsy type swords. Yet more experienced members of his class were using the heavy kinds of sword you use today. Having the flimsy swords do have a purpose you know.

somewhat related...

Tony Jaa, a Thai actor trained in Muay Thai and stunts, in his first film "Ong Bak" features more realistic fighting in it. If he's more successful, it could trigger a movement towards realism in Chinese films, thus finishing the job Bruce Lee had started on.

no because false blades can be as light as a pound yet still have steel density closer to a real blade then a flimsy foil wushu blade does.

if a 12 year old girl can wield a 4-5 pound shuang shou jian with power and grace, theres simply no excuse.

flimsy wushu blades are like non-alcoholic beer,no purpose.

umm....I know you love your Jian, and it is beautiful too, but you understand no doubt that Wushu is a display art and not a combat based swordmanship stlye.
I athough I have heard 'the light and safe' training weapon explanation before I am of the opinion it is for just for visual aesthetics...as is most of Wushu.
I trust you have seen the weapon used in form. SNAP! when they strike out to quick extension there is a sharp martial sound from the blade. Dramatic. The blade flashes. I have more regular Jian of no great quality...but if I perform the same movement with it ...(snap) There is no sound, only movement.
The flashy blade is made like this for that purpose I believe.
I might also expect their might be a 'slap' sound too used in form, much like the flexible spear striking the ground..although I am unsure if I have seen it, but Wushu machettes can make noise like this too.

Now for dramatic form.....or for training to kill it is hardly comparing apples with apples. One is a weapon and the other is a stage prop......like a wig or make up.
Mainland Wushu is not for martial application, so much as I find the swords silly too it becomes nessacary to see them for what they are. Tools for display.
As already said they are not weapons.
I have heard Kung Fu schools criticise the fist method of Wushu too, namely the style of praticing crescent kicks in line work by slapping the foot into the hand part way through a circle kick.
SOme say that is not real Kung Fu and comes from Beijing Opera and was made like that for the 'slap' to be dramatic in sound. Like a double outside crescent kick makes a sharp double clap as it travels. I am unsure if it is not entirely un-martial though as I notice Taiwan Long Fist schools do this, who do not suffer form CCP meddling....and it also may serve to condition the hands and feet, but Wushu uses it no doubt just for the sound as there is no other conditioning or limbs for striking.
Their intent isnt for striking training...but for display again.

Anyway...back to the point. No, Wushu is not really a 'true' swordmanship stlye....but it is its own art. Just like some people do drink low-alcohol drinks (even though not me, I swear I have seen people drink them before) it may be because they plan to drive a car rather later and never intended to party till late....and Wushu has its own reason too which might require not thinking of it as a Chinese swordstyle at all.
IN this way, silly as the 'sword' might be, and how it truly is not a weapon...it has its purpose you can be sure.

I don't expect 7 year olds to use real swords of real weight. But why keep them on that later? That's like feeding a teen baby food. And then telling them its a real feast.

Really, the wushu weapons aren't problems in themselves. It's that everyone's using them, and believing that they are real. There really should be an awareness of what China's weapons were really like. And all the Martial arts lore should really be dispeled.

True...like I said earlier, I suspect my instructor perhaps isnt aware how twisted Wushu really is. Perhaps I know its all fuzz, but accept it....but if you thought it was 'Kung Fu/traditional Chinese martial art' then that would be wrong, and you could study for years and still get taken apart in a street fight.
One of her other students is off to CHina to study Wushu...at a Chinese university! He knows nothing of Chinese & China but he is going.
I know other Westerners have done this, but now I am thinking, 'yeah, its good no doubt...but is it the best option?' perhaps he should spend 4 years in Hong Kong or Taiwan teaching English & learning Wing CHun in the evenings and he would have some real martial ability.
He is being helped to do this by another Chinese national Wushu champ who poached students from an existing club. I havent met this 'champ', but his method of gathering students from small existing clubs made me wonder if he was a good moral character even if he can jump 20 feet in the air.
I suppose people train for all sorts of reasons, fitness, self-defense, pure enjoyment, competition....so as long as each student knows what they are there for and has no illusions about the Art/Reality balance of his stlye then a few floppy swords and movie stances doesnt hurt.
I just hope he isnt thinking he will become a bad-A** like the movies when some rough kid from a boxing gym will knock him out even before he can adopt a cool 'Kung Fu' starting posture.

if Wu Gong schools keep using them, then the image will be stuck like this forever.

its that simple. no excuse. They already make false blade replicas of comparable weight, and also they make well made wooden replicas (for the kids i guess). Wu Shu weapons are not safe for kids, they're thin enough that if you get hit in the eye, it can do serious damage (imagine someone running a piece of tin foil across your eyeball), however with false blade, accidents will result most likely in bruises.

yes, i realize WuShu is performance purpose but a performance purpose should not even exist. our millenia old martial traditions are not meant for the purpose of dazzling the eye

Yang Zongbao, you're a fellow Wu Gong practioner so i'll respect your opinion even though i genuinely believe pseudo-Chinese weapons should stop being made

As far as Wuxia movies are concerned, it is quite unlikely that Chinese martial arts movies would actually go back to their good days with realistic fight scenes. This is simply because the industry simply does not support it any more.

Lets be honest, if we look at the three big names in MA movies todays, it would be Jacky Chan, Jet Li and Donnie Yen. All three of which came out from the Hong Kong movie industry. But their existance is due to the fact that the industry was willing to build their names, train them and market them. We will never really see any good MA stars coming out of China because the MAist there don't really know how to fight or even know a glimpse of what CMA is really like.

In the past, we can generally see how a martial arts star rises in HK. First would be TV shows which are loaded with at least one fight scene on every episodes. And when they are ready, they will advance to the big scene as small parts and then eventually make it big roles (unless of course if you are a Chinese national champion like Jet Li). However, to make it to the TV shows in the first place, they need to be trained from a very young age and join the entertainment industry as a veteran MAist. These are people who really know how to fight using Chinese martial arts. And their time as either a stunt double or a minor role in MA TV shows horns their skills. So by the time they actually make it to the big screen, they would already know what a real fight is and how to make it look good on screen.

The problem is that that mechanism doesn't exist anymore. They now try to train actors for a few months and then put them into a fight scene. Kinda like the matrix. there are two reasons for this. First, the money required to make a martial arts movie with a martial arts crew is enormous. Second, when their names becomes big, they will charge an arm and a leg for their movies. And third if we look at how Jacky, Donnie and Jet did, it means they will eventually leave HK and make it out to Hollywood of Mainland China for big productions that HK simply can't afford. Because of this, we can see a number of potential superstars that is never used well. I mean if anybody watched Twin Effects, watching those two little brats fighting was almost embarrassing to watch. If we compare them with movies from teh 70s, you can see the decline.

Hell, there isn't even a martial arts chorographer anymore. Only 'action chorographer" by people who doesn't know jack about CMA.

rant over

Sorry, what were we talking about ? Oh right, sword. Yeah, hate those flimsy things. But look on it this way man, considering the deman of the market, the increase of supply would mean a decrease of quality. Lets just hope that the Chinese economy will develope faster so that the quality of products would get better

Doesn't Jet Li count as a China wushu artist? How different is his style from real Chinese martial arts?

Thanks, Lang.

It's terrible how real Chinese Wu Gong, real Chinese swords, and Chinese Archery are disappearing from everyone's memory and being replaced with completely wrong stereotypes...
Such as the foil sword...

Actually, Jet Li counts as a Hong Kong star because all his movies that had good MA in them were produced in Hong Kong. So he was coached and taught in the traditional arts by people who knew what they were doing. All you need to do is to look at are his early productions from the mainland later works like his Wong Fei Hung series.

I heard from an associate of mine who went to China many, many years ago and he saw someone practicing a foil sword in the western side of China. There is supposed to be a sword exercise called the Blue Steel sword. And the "only" way you can practice it through the foil sword. Has anyone heard of this before?

The use of a foil sword is actually complete BS brought on by Wushu and kung fu movies.
The anatomy of a foil sword makes it impossible to really cut through flesh. Give a bad papercut, maybe. But cut and kill? No.
There is no style that would use a foil sword, cept Wushu and all other 'visual' styles.

That is a very interesting viewpoint. ... I thought foil-like swords are weapons for thrusting with the point. I think it is not designed for chopping and slashing. ... Some of my drinking buddies who study Hsing-I, Pakuachang and other type of weapon martial arts confirmed that with me. ... I personally prefer a Japanese Katanna. Because I practice with it before. ... It is a very effective weapon for chopping and slashing. You sound like a real weapon expert master. ... I am sure you know better.

Well, you see...foil weapons are not really good...for anything. I mean, how do you stab when your blade bends at a touch?

Real Chinese swords do not bend. They are not made of foil. No culture is silly enough to have weapons to give papercuts. In essence, the "Foil sword" is a fantasy weapon.

The Chinese Dao was as effective a weapon as any Katana at Chopping and slashing. You see...the Katana IS basically a modified Tang Style Dao.

You should really check out www.swordforum.com. I owe a lot of my knowledge to those on there. There's a Chinese sword forum on there too, you can ask questions there. Good people will answer for you.

Thanks a lot for such insight. ... I will check out the swordforum.com

stereotypes, stereotypes, stereotypes

as Yang Zong bao has said, real Chinese jian don't bend. the standardized weight(translated to english system) of Chinese jian throughout the ages were from 1.8 pounds to 4-5 pounds. some double handed ones go up to 7 to 8 pounds.
they can't bend, trust me

and as for the stereotype that they can't slash or chop. i'll try to record a demonstration of me slashing through a watermelon and small wooden bench simoultaneously with one upward slash with my jian.

the forging style of steel folding, and differentiated heat treatments (that the japanese use on their swords) was innovated in China to around 100 AD. probably even earlier

i'll have you know that the japanese swords like chokuto, Amakuni,Honoto, Kambun Shinto and some would argue the curved katana itself are all based on Chinese sabers.

During the Tang and Ashikage( I think that's his name) shogunate, many Chinese swords were imported to Japan, they were popular with the nobility, and quite a few Chinese and Korean sword smiths immigrated there.

I am looking forward to your demonstration. ... Question ---> Is it true that there were certain Chinese swordsmen who were to carry a light bendable sword conceal in their belt? ... Or is it a Chinese movie myth? ...

Movie Myth.
Again, bendable swords can't slice. :/

i'll repeat this one more time. bendable,flexible Jian have NEVER existed in China historically. Its only movies and effeminate pseudo-Chinese martial artists who continue to spread this myth

Here is an example of a Han dynasty era Jian. around 1.5 to 2 pounds





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in case you were curious about Pre-Qing era sabers

Here is an example of Sui era saber (From Thomas Chen's sword site)



Ming Era Saber (also courtesy of Thomas Chen)

Those are great photographs. ... Thanks again. ... Let me brand this in my head. ... "There is no such thing as bendable swords. ... Only in Hong Kong movies. ... "

I don't have the link on me now, but a fellow on the sword forum by the name of Lancelot Chan (or Chen, I think) has videos of demostrations with Chinese blades

In one he cuts through raw pork, flesh and bone, stacked on top of empty cardboard crates, or cuts raw pork hanging from a string

the string and cardboard is to simulate how, when cutting/piercing, your foe won't be in a vise grip, y'know?

Actually, they DID bend. Although only very slightly. Unbendable swords run the risk of being brittle and snapping upon impact. From the ancient times, swords of China was required to be slightly flexible as a means of absorbing this shock. This all started at around the time when high quality iron or steel was used. I have yet to see a bendable bronze one though. However, good swords normally won't bend more than 30 to 45 degrees before it start going out of shape. And it takes heck of an effort to get them to that level.

IMHO you shouldn't mix 2 different things - the weapon for martial arts and the weapon for battle as the M.A.W. is not intended for being used in real battle.

And you should remember that jian as a weapon for the civil officer should differ from the jian as a weapon for a soldier.

And flexible jian could be used as civil weapon to leave cuts upon un-armored torso (snake-ooked scars).

Best regards,

Alexey.

The use of a flexible sword which was kept wrapped about the waist is also mentioned, I believe, in the Indian martial art Kalaripayattu which means “the way of the battlefield” which is still practiced in the state of Kerala.

I think you could make a sword that flex around the waist if the cross section is very thin and slightly convex. It would be a pretty lousy weapons though, not being able to cut or stab well. If it was made at all it would have very limited application, and certainly did not represent the norm. I'd much rather conceal carry a long knife than a "belt sword".

All swords should flex somewhat, some more than others. The differentially hardened Japanese swords for example did not flex well and were prone to take a set. Earlier Chinese swords were made the same way but later seem to use a differential tempering heat treatment which should give it some flex much like swords of most other cultures.

Reproductions of two Tang dynasty swords. I believe the originals were preserved by the Japanese, which is why they're still around to be examined in detail.

Here's what I found on the bendy Indian sword called either a Chuttuval or a Urumi.

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Chuttuval (flexible sword)

This is called as Urumi in the northern system. It is a flexible band of steel measuring in length from the fingertip of one hand to the finger tip of the other hand when the hands are held outstretched to the sides and1 to 2 inches wide. Here agility and mental sharpness counts more than strength or aggression. Twirling and controlling urumi is an art by itself possible only for those who spend long hours in the kalari. One false movement can slash the eyes, calves and many other parts of the practitioner. This one calls for utmost concentration even from the expert trainees. Some times two blades are attached to the handle so that the urumi can be made more lethal. If used in a crowded situation when attacked by multiple opponents, the urumi can save the dedicated kalari student by inflicting heavy injuries to the aggressors. Urumi has another advantage – this weapon can be worn like a waist belt and can be drawn when demanded.
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BTW, nice pictures! Makes me want one too!

Q: Have you tried to play w/ the Urumi blade?