The Dai (傣） ethnic nationals in Southern China seems to be quite similar to the Thai (in Thailand) in terms of culture and customs.

Are they similar to Thai in terms of ethnicity? Do they originate from the same ancestry? Any info on Dai would be appreciated

My Thai friends say its the same exact language, just a different dialect, and this dialect is similar to one of the northern Thai dialects.
I met one Dai student, they're very fair skinned.

Were the original Thais/Dais the same, and then absorbed Malay people when they settled in modern day Thailand?

The thais in thailand came from southern china many hundred years ago which is their homeland.

They are fairer skin in color.

Thailand is not their homeland but the homeland of the khmers which are darker skin in color.

When the han chinese moved south, the dais also moved south to modern day thailand.

They have the same ancestors , just different dialects.

Dai is simply an alternative romanisation of Tai . All Tai groups have relatively mutually intelligible dialects ( more so than Chinese dialects ) although a western comparison would be like the intelligibility between Spanish , Catalan and Italian rather than between standard American English and BBC English .

The "original" Tais are fair skinned and still inhabit parts of Yunnan , north west Laos , north east India and parts of Vietnam . In Burma where they form the majority in the Shan states they are called "Shan" by the Burmese . This term refers to all Tai within Burma's previous spheres of influence except the central Thais of Ayutthaya and subsequently Bangkok ie Shan refers to inhabitants of Shan states , Dai in Yunnan , Lao in North west Laos , Tai in Lanna ( northern Thai around Chiang Mai ) , Tai in Assam and also the Sukhotai kingdom.

The differentiation between "Tai" speaking Ayutthaya and the rest was presumbably made by perceived differences in phenotype of the lighter skin Shan and the darker skin central Thais ( who are an amalgam of Tai , Mon Khmer and Malay heritage ) who were in the past seen as darker than the Burmese ( not the case now due to Bangkokians now being mainly SinoThai ).

Culturally the Dai of Dehong are very close to the Shan within Burma while the Dai of Sipsongpanna are very similar to the Northern Lao and the Tai in Chiang Mai.

This is the modern Dehong script which is derived from Mon.

I've always thought that the People's Republic of China's insistence on using the term Dai instead of Tai is just a pre-empt on any "Tai nationalism" that it could foster between those people and their ethnic cousins across the border. They wouldn't want these guys to feel too much of a bond.

It depends on the language. Many of the Tai languages are relatively easy to understand between different groups depending on your experience. Some terms will be used slightly differently, and some groups will use some words more often than others.

It is always amusing to see people try to make a claim towards "original Tai" based on qualifications like skin tone whenever anyone speaks of Thai people. Based on this precedence it makes you wonder why "original Chinese" or even "original French" is not constantly mentioned. Growing up I just know that Tai of different areas are different and speak differently. No original, no new Tai. There are different stereotypes about different regions just like any other place. Modern Thai nationalism started a bit over a hundred years ago. To be Thai you need 3 things. You need the language, religion and the monarchy. In a way it is a very inclusive form of nation building.

It is rediculous to see people bring out maps of DNA or whatever else to scientifically prove different peoples. It makes no sense. Different countries and different groups of people define themselves differently. Don't try to impose your own standards on other people who see the world differently.

The irony is that it is Thai nationalism that tries to identify itself as Tai while denying much of it's other heritage : namely Mon and especially Khmer . I have noticed many Thais from Thailand dreaming of a greater Tai-land which is amusing . It's much like the all the mediterranean romance speakers claiming to be the same ( yes they are but also no they're not ) or the scandinavian countries wanting to unite .

I guess the problem stems from the fact that Thailand is the richest and most powerful Tai speaking nation and it somehow feels aggrieved that it's cousins in both Myanmar and China are non-governing minorities .


With regards to "original" Tai : the term is meaningless and irrelevant these days . My observations are in the Burmese historical context .

However I do have Shan ( Tai ) family who regard people from Yunnan and Chiang Mai as their kindred but not those from Bangkok , Issan or Pattani . In their eyes there is enough of a cultural , language and phenotypical difference to justify this .

Its not meaningless if you trace their origins. Can we say that Singaporeans are of the same race and of the same origins ?

Basically, the thais have 3 different origins (or 4 if you count the chinese), they are

1. The original ethnic Dai which moved south from southern china (yunnan, gwangxi) during the Yuan Mongol invasion at around the 13th century and formed modern Thailand. These are of fairer skin in color.

2. The mon-khmer people who formed the khmer empire in most parts of mainland south east asia before the ethnic Dai took over the land at around 13th century. These people are of darker skin in color and ethnically similar to the cambodians in modern day cambodia.

3. The malays living in southern thailand (patani etc) who has its origin from the indonesian islands. These people are of darker skin in color, muslims and speak the malay-related language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Thailand

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...amp;pid=4893566

XNG:

The above description is reference to the modern Thai people of Thailand; however, the origin Thai/Dai/Tay would still be around Yunnan's region though!

It is meaningless. Can we say that Chinese is same race and origin? It depends on what your definitions are. Singapore is Singapore. Thailand is Thailand. Do not confuse the two. Thai nationalism is inclusive to a certain extant. Language, religion and monarchy. Those 3 things and nothing else. Not looks, not blood, not hair color, not skin color, not eye color and not what kind of money you make. This is Thailand, not Nazi Germany.

Thai nationalism and the country of Thailand was created from Bangkok. From central Thailand. We could thus say that they are the "original Thai". The "Thai language" was the court language in Bangkok. This language is what people in other countries study when they study "Thai". It is also the language people in Thailand must learn. It is like many other countries including the People's Republic of China in this respect.

Central and Southern Thai people speak more differently from North and Northeastern Thai people. I personally like the way Southern Thai people speak. Harder for me to understand because they seem to speak faster, but it sounds neat to me. North Thai speak similar to North Lao and Northeast Thai speaks similar to Southern Lao people, but the difference between northern and southern Lao is very little in comparison to the difference between Central Thai and North/Northeast Thai. When Lao people ask each other where they are from they will often ask "What kind of Tai are you?" rather than "Where are you from?" The other person would answer them "Tai Savan" to indicate they are from Savannakhet, "Tai Vieng" to indicate they are from the capital or perhaps "Tai Muang Luang" to indicate they are from the ancient capital area of Luang Prabang.

Yup, my auntie, who is Thai, has told me that Southerners tend to speak fast and keep their sentence contracted and short.