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China History Forum, Chinese History Forum > Chinese History Topics > Chinese Art of War
General_Zhaoyun
In the RoTK TV series, I've seen chinese infantry soldiers or horsemen trying to block arrows fired from enemy archers using their own sword.

Just wonder how effective this defence tactic is? Do the infantry still require shield?
Tyler
It's uneffective to be sure that was an "effect" to liven up the TV series.
Long Dragon
QUOTE(Liu Ce @ Feb 22 2005, 01:42 PM)
It's uneffective to be sure that was an "effect" to liven up the TV series.
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i totally agree with Liu Ce, while it is possible to do, you need extreme skill with the sword, also different bows have different poundages which means that some arrows travel faster than others, so you wouldnt be able to do it agaisnt any old archer, especially a group. shields i consdier a nesscity in a battle, well i do like ancient greece as well so i might be biased, but they are all round goodness, they can stop sword,spear and light axe attacks and stop some arrows, crossbows can punch thorugh sheilds thought
Sephodwyrm
Crossbows made shields pretty useless...

But I think the silk undergarments or the paddings help the Chinese soldiery survive arrows.
TMPikachu
survive, but it can still take you outta the fight. The obvious benefit is being able to fight another day (or if you're the soldier, not dying!). It'd also allow for more experienced soldiers and commanders to be running about.
I guess if a hail of arrows is coming at you, and you've got nothing but a sword, at the very least, one would try to deflect it, 'cause there's nothing else to do.

I would say it's an act of desperation, not to be relied on.

On silk underarmor, when did it come around? how common was it? (whole armies? or just elites/commanders in silk?)
Wujiang
It is theoretically possible for one to deflect arrows using swords. I would be inclinde to believe that at least some exception people are able to do it. However, I think the question isn't really about whether or not it is possible but rather how cost effective they in terms of training an entire army to do it. Simply put, the skills required to perfect the sword-against-arrow technique would require so much time that you simply won't train your entire army to do so. Especially true since a nice wooden/metal board would do the job much better. Think about it, all it takes is one slip and the error would be fatal while with a shield, you just hold it up. You might as well spend the time to train them in other things like shooting arrows.
Moping4U
uhhh....I think i better hide behind a shield.
HaSY
blocking arrows using sword is possible is kinda like a Jedi Knight blocking blaster bolts.......
using shields is the most practical way than spending too much in training to block arrows using swords.
Long Dragon
See i said sheilds where good lol smile.gif
Yang Zongbao
But again, both Crossbows and Composite bows have the capability to punch through shields and armor...you'd have to make some pretty d**** thick shields of pretty d**** hard material to stop a bolt or arrow from one of these...but I think that the Chinese did make shields to stop these powerful arrows.
ih8eurocentrix
what i dont understand is if its so easy for crossbows to punch through armour and sheild,even european armour couldnt stop crossbow(plate?),
so why is it that Jurchen double lameller armour was able to stop crossbows,if so why didnt the chinese just shoot the jurchen horse surely that wasnt armoured with double lameller armour,,
Yang Zongbao
The Horses were often armored too, if I recall, such as those in the Guaizima formation.
It took hooks and Zhanmadao to bring those down I think.
wlee15
QUOTE(ih8eurocentrix @ Feb 23 2005, 03:06 PM)
what i dont understand is if its so easy for crossbows to punch through armour and sheild,even european armour couldnt stop crossbow(plate?),
so why is it that Jurchen double lameller armour was able to stop crossbows,if so why didnt the chinese just shoot the jurchen horse surely that wasnt armoured with double lameller armour,,
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Most European crossbows were designed for a very powerful bolt at the expense of speed of reloading. Some of them were even made out steel and required a winching mechanism to load. The early development of crossbows in China likely prevented the development of any type of heavy armor and so Chinese crossbows would be more effective in increasing the ease of use of the crossbow rather than increasing it's pentrative capability.
Liang Jieming
QUOTE(General_Zhaoyun @ Feb 22 2005, 09:16 PM)
In the RoTK TV series, I've seen chinese infantry soldiers or horsemen trying to block arrows fired from enemy archers using their own sword.

Just wonder how effective this defence tactic is? Do the infantry still require shield?
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There's a direct reference to a character blocking an arrow with his sword in Water Margin, so this concept was already known at least to the author during the Yuan/Ming dynasty.
Moping4U
Has anyone ever thought of using the bodies of your dead enemies as shields?
Moose
QUOTE(Moping4U @ Feb 23 2005, 10:03 PM)
Has anyone ever thought of using the bodies of your dead enemies as shields?
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Yup,that is a good idea.Only problem is that it's much harder to hold a dead body in 1 hand for shielding rather than a shield.
BlueDragonMagik
QUOTE(Moping4U @ Feb 23 2005, 09:03 PM)
Has anyone ever thought of using the bodies of your dead enemies as shields?
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Has any one ever thought of just running from the arrow?
Yun
Have you tried running from a bullet? You may be a moving target, but you're still a large target and not faster than a projectile.

Tajima the arrow-cutter, warrior-monk in the Gempei (Minamoto-Taira) wars, became famous for spinning his naginata (moon-glaive) to cut arrows flying at him at the Battle of the Uji Bridge. So this sort of technique was not unheard of. But ordinary soldiers would definitely be more survivable using a shield (against crossbows, armour and pavises could be used). The arrow-blocking thing in the RTK series is just sexier than a shield, that's all.

[The discussion of tongxiujia armour has been split off into another topic so as to keep this thread on-topic.]
BlueDragonMagik
QUOTE(Yun @ Mar 30 2005, 06:52 PM)
Have you tried running from a bullet? You may be a moving target, but you're still a large target and not faster than a projectile.

Tajima the arrow-cutter, warrior-monk in the Gempei (Minamoto-Taira) wars, became famous for spinning his naginata (moon-glaive) to cut arrows flying at him at the Battle of the Uji Bridge. So this sort of technique was not unheard of. But ordinary soldiers would definitely be more survivable using a shield (against crossbows, armour and pavises could be used). The arrow-blocking thing in the RTK series is just sexier than a shield, that's all.

[The discussion of tongxiujia armour has been split off into another topic so as to keep this thread on-topic.]
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It all depends on whether the defender is consciously aware of what is going on, the distance, the terrain, the meta-physical state and the mindset of the defender.
TMPikachu
In Legend of Condor Heroes, a mongol commander blocks an arrow with a kick, with his bite, and even with.. another arrow, fired from his bow biggrin.gif

Even if it's obviously unrealistic, I guess stemming from this...

are there many 'fantastic' stories of heroes who could pull off the feat of deflecting arrows?
LiBajiQuan
Blocking arrows with a sword.... You would need superhuman reflexes to do that. Either that or have a supremely wide sword.
CARDINAL009
This Cardinal believes in the action of dodging not blocking.
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