We have topics on how long the Chinese civilization was, but how long have the Chinese state existed? There are many definitions to a state. But if the criteria is a unified kingdom with a hierarchical structure with a central power and local regional administrations that is either loosely or closely controlled by the central power, then I believe the Zhou would be the first Chinese state. The "guo" during the Zhou was the first administrative unit that can be considered an "inner part" of the Zhou domain, wheareas the Shang vassals were usually considered "outer vassals" that were separate but subordinate to the dynasty.

But does Zhou court have administrative authority to overrule their vassal's decision? For example, if Chu decided that you can't cook after 5 p.m for some blizzard reason, could Zhou say, no you can't do that and Chu can no longer issue such laws. You aren't a central authority if you cannot overrule local authorities. I think in order to be a state, there must be some boundary that represents the whole entity, and you can't represent any entity if you cannot enforce common laws, and the ability to enforce sovereignty both internally and externally. Zhou, I believe, lacks the power to enforce sovereignty internally, thus I would say it really isn't a state.

It depends on how you define a country:

There is the empirical and the juridical definition.

The former is marked by the popular theory of Max Weber, which defines a state as an "organization that has a 'monopoly on legitimate violence' over a specific territory." By such a definition the Qin would indeed be the first time China became a country. By the same definition, European countries such as France and England would not be qualified as countries until feudalism was abolished in the 15th and 16th centuries.

On the other hand, the juridical definition is less systematic and can be divided into two forms:

One is the Declarative theory of statehood, which defines a legitimate country as having these 4 characteristics:


1) a permanent population
2) a defined territory
3) government
4) sovereignty; with the capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

The country in question does not have to be recognized by others to be considered a country.

The second is the constitutive theory of statehood, which defines a country as one which needs to be recognized by others.


In both of these juridical definitions, the pre-Qin dynasties are viable to be considered as states. The Zhou fits all four category of the declarative theory of statehood. We have good reason to suppose that the other feudal states of Zhou(at least those hua states) had to follow the Zhou law and rites. The Shang however, was a different story and so far we do not have sufficient information about its laws and administrative structure to understand how its laws were imposed upon its vassals.

The juridical definition is also more historically flexible, since it recognizes feudal kingdoms as countries. This would mean that France and Britain were countries as early as the middle ages, while China was also a country since the three dynasties period.


If we use nation states as a criteria to determine the history of modern countries, then the first nation state in history was probably the French Republic that was established under the French Revolution, while for China it could be either the late Qing or the ROC.

When did feudalism exactly began in China is also an unsolved puzzle in Chinese history, however, we do have concrete archaeological evidence to prove that at least since the time of Wu Ding, enfeoffing kingdoms has already appeared. Terms such as "marquis"侯 were given to generals who gained merits, along with a plot of land. Those already existing states also received the title of marquis, such as the kingdom of Zhou, whose ruler received the title "marquis of Zhou"

excellent argument, you said a lot of what I was going to say (but better) so I will leave it at that. I also vote Zhou Dynasty.