Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Emperor pass throne to siblings
China History Forum, Chinese History Forum > Chinese History Topics > Home to Beginners
allie
It is common practise for a Emperor to pass his throne to his son upon his death.

I can only think of 3 situations when the Emperor decides to pass the throne to his siblings instead of his son.

1. He has no sons or all his sons died before him.

2. His sons are born retarded(brain damage) so they cannot rule a country.

3. His sons are unfilal such as they try to kill him to take over the throne or are drug addicts etc.

In history are there real stories of Emperors who decides to pass his throne to his siblings instead of his sons and they do not fall into these 3 categories?

Yun
Actually, fraternal succession (i.e. being succeeded by one's brother) was normally not approved of in Chinese imperial dynasties. The ideal was primogeniture (being succeeded by one's eldest son); the second choice was succession by one's eldest grandson if one's eldest son was already dead; the third choice was succession by another son if the eldest son was dead and left no descendants, or was disowned for whatever reason; the fourth choice was succession by a family member of one's junior generation (e.g. a nephew or cousin's son) if one did not have any sons; the fifth choice was adopting someone capable from outside one's family to be one's son and heir.

Being succeeded by someone in the same generation was considered improper, because the successor was supposed to perform ancestral rites to his deceased predecessor, and having a man perform ancestral rites to his brother would be an insult to their father.

There were some exceptions to this norm. The kingdom of Southern Liang, ruled by the Xianbi Tufa family, passed through three brothers in succession, and this may have something to do with the Xianbi tradition of fraternal succession (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tufa_Rutan ). The kingdom of Western Qin, ruled by the Xianbi Qifu family, also went through one fraternal succession (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qifu_Gangui ). The Tuoba Xianbi also practiced fraternal succession in their early history (i.e. the Dai state period), but switched to primogeniture after the founding of the Northern Wei state. It should be noted that fraternal succession was also common among the Xiongnu and Khitan.

Zhao Kuangyin, the founder of the Song Empire, also passed the throne to his brother Zhao Guangyi, although this was considered unusual and has been attributed either to Khitan influence or the influence of their mother; there are also stories of Zhao Guangyi seizing the throne through assassination. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Taizu...ne_transmission

The Ming emperor Zhu Qizhen was succeeded by his brother Zhu Qiyu after he was captured by the Oirat Mongols in 1449. After Qizhen was released, Qiyu remained emperor and replaced Qizhen's eldest son Jianshen with his own son as crown prince. This offended Zhu Qizhen greatly. But Qiyu's crown prince later died, and Qiyu refused to name a new heir. Qizhen then launched a palace coup and seized the throne back from Qiyu.

From the Kangxi emperor onwards, the Qing dynasty did not practice primogeniture; instead, any of the emperor's sons could be chosen as heir, and this choice was kept secret until the emperor died.
Prince of the South
QUOTE (Yun @ Aug 14 2008, 02:23 PM) *
From the Kangxi emperor onwards, the Qing dynasty did not practice primogeniture; instead, any of the emperor's sons could be chosen as heir, and this choice was kept secret until the emperor died.


Manchus did not practice primogeniture, the eldest son and other sons had equal chance of succession.

This gives rise to a few issues

- there is no fixed heir apparent as the eldest was not always crown prince
- it allowed more capable / favourite younger son(s) a chance in succession
- it created succession disputes because there is no default heir apparent
- the problem of succession was never solved and some had been controversial eg Huangtaiji, Yong Zheng, Dao Guang, Guang Xu...

The secret edict of succession can be seen to be valid for only 3 emperors, namely Qian Long, Jiaqing and Xian Feng

Huangtaiji - chosen by a panel of imperial princes
Shun Zhi - chosen by a panel of imperial princes
Kang Xi - nominated by Shun Zhi before he died
Yong Zheng - succession controversy
Qian Long - secret edict (first of such started by Yong Zheng)
Jia Qing - secret edict
Dao Guang - no secret edict found, controversy (nominated by dowager empress?)
Xian Feng - secret edict
Tong Zhi - only son
Guang Xu - nominated by Ci Xi (Tong Zhi no issue)
Xuan Tong - nominated by Ci Xi
Yun
QUOTE
The secret edict of succession can be seen to be valid for only 3 emperors, namely Qian Long, Jiaqing and Xian Feng


QUOTE
Yong Zheng - succession controversy


Didn't the Kangxi emperor use a secret edict to indicate his final choice of heir? I thought the whole succession controversy was about whether the edict had been tampered with.

QUOTE
Manchus did not practice primogeniture, the eldest son and other sons had equal chance of succession.


I forgot to mention the important fact that in Chinese primogeniture, only sons borne by the official wife were eligible for the succession. In the case of imperial dynasties, the eldest son of an emperor could be bypassed if he was not borne by the empress, in favour of the first son borne by the empress; however, if for some reason the son of a concubine was chosen to be heir, the concubine was usually elevated to the rank of empress thereafter (which might mean the original empress would be stripped of her position). This elevation was done posthumously for concubines who died young, in which case the dead concubine would be given the title of empress-dowager after her son became emperor.

In the case of the Kangxi emperor, it does seem that he tried to establish the institution of primogeniture by choosing Yinreng as crown prince when he was only two years old. Yinreng was not the eldest son (he was the second), but he was the eldest surviving son borne by the empress (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangxi#Sons ). After Yinreng was stripped of his position as crown prince, the only candidates to replace him were Yinzhen and Yinti, since none of the other sons was borne by the empress. But the Kangxi emperor then chose to abolish the position of crown prince and instead implement the secret edict system.
Historian
QUOTE (allie @ Aug 13 2008, 12:06 AM) *
It is common practise for a Emperor to pass his throne to his son upon his death.

I can only think of 3 situations when the Emperor decides to pass the throne to his siblings instead of his son.

1. He has no sons or all his sons died before him.

2. His sons are born retarded(brain damage) so they cannot rule a country.

3. His sons are unfilal such as they try to kill him to take over the throne or are drug addicts etc.

In history are there real stories of Emperors who decides to pass his throne to his siblings instead of his sons and they do not fall into these 3 categories?


Nearest I guess is Zhao Kuangyin. He have no sons Correct me if I'm wrong. Some historic discoveries said that in Emperor Kangxi's edict, there are two copies of edict, like Han's language and Manchu's language. So if Yinzhen wanted to change the Han language edict, he would not be able to change the Manchu language. That is why he became the Emperor. I heard this somewhere else. Not sure if its true.
Prince of the South
Despite the fact that only official sons could be emperor, other sons of the emperor still had a chance in succession. I am wrong in saying they had equal chance, as Yun pointed out.

In the case of Nurhaci, his death left Daishan, Manggultai, Huangtaiji, Ajige, Dorgon and Dodo as main contenders vying for the throne. Daishan and Manggultai mothers used to be principal wife (da fu-jin) in their lifetime, and when Nurhaci died, the chief wife was the mother of the 3 younger sons. However, Huangtaiji was able to succeed thereafter posthumously elevated his mother as the empress.

Hooge, Huangtaiji's eldest son, was of a lesser wife but he was one of the 2 main contenders to the throne when Huangtaiji died.

Kang Xi's mother was a concubine but not an official wife or empress, but made dowager empress when he ascended the throne.

I don't think Kang Xi was trying to establish primogeniture in making Yinreng crown prince. Yinreng was second son that grew up to maturity, but he was the 8th. I think Yinreng was made crown prince owing to the fact that his mother who died at childbirth giving birth to him, was the empress and Kang Xi was very fond of her. Having said that, official wife nothwithstanding, sons of favoruite concubines were also highly favoured for the throne.

Even with "low" birth, Yinsi, whose mother was merely a consort, had a high position and was given the princely title of Lian and at one stage was a serious contender for the throne.

But the Kangxi emperor then chose to abolish the position of crown prince and instead implement the secret edict system.

In actual fact, all succession edicts were "secret" anyway. However, I refer to the "secret edict of succession" as the edict made by Yong Zheng during his reign. This secret edict was made known in its existence to ensure that the imperial prnces would not engage in intrigue as the successor had already been nominated. In this nature, Yong Zheng implemented a new method of succession to avoid intrigues. Only Qian Long, Jia Qing and Xian Feng had their names hidden behind the zheng da guang ming plague this way.
madalibi
QUOTE (Historian @ Aug 14 2008, 07:13 PM) *
Nearest I guess is Zhao Kuangyin. He have no sons Correct me if I'm wrong. Some historic discoveries said that in Emperor Kangxi's edict, there are two copies of edict, like Han's language and Manchu's language. So if Yinzhen wanted to change the Han language edict, he would not be able to change the Manchu language. That is why he became the Emperor. I heard this somewhere else. Not sure if its true.


A rumor already circulated in the 1720s that Yinzhen 胤禛 modified the edict of succession that Kangxi wrote on his death bed. This rumor was discussed and refuted in the Dayi juemi lu 大義覺迷錄, a book that Yongzheng contributed to writing and that he distributed in prefectural schools throughout the empire (brief background here, post 5).

The key phrase in that hypothetical edict was "傳十四阿哥": "pass [the throne to] the fourteenth imperial prince." Kangxi's 14th son was Yinti 胤禵, who was off on a military campaign. The phrase was important because it could supposedly be turned modified to "傳于四阿歌": "pass [the throne] to the fourth imperial prince." The 4th imperial prince was of course Yinzhen. It is true that Manchu grammar would not allow for such a modification, but even the Chinese forgery would have been impossible, because imperial princes were referred to as "huang age" 皇阿哥, not just "age" 阿哥.

The main problem with the Kangxi suscession was that Kangxi had not written any memorial announcing his decision in advance. After he stripped Yinreng of his title of heir-apparent for the second time, he refused to name any successor. Despite his old age, he seems to have been caught by surprise by his sudden disease. It is possible that he spoke to his sons about his will, but never committed it to writing, letting intrigues dominate the days before and after he died.

As Prince of the South already explained, Yongzheng and the next few emperors decided to write their decision in advance, but in a document that would remain hidden until their death. That way, not only would princes not engage in plotting, but court officials would also stop forming factions around the heir apparent or around the heir's main rivals. Of course there were still court factions (especially at the end of the Qianlong reign), but they were no longer linked to succession problems.
Yun
QUOTE
Nearest I guess is Zhao Kuangyin. He have no sons Correct me if I'm wrong.


No, he had four sons, two of whom died young and two of whom (Zhao Dezhao and Zhao Defang) were still alive when he died. Zhao Dezhao was later suspected by Zhao Guangyi of having designs on the throne, and committed suicide in 979. He was 28 years old. Zhao Defang died in 981 at the age of 22, and many suspected Zhao Guangyi had a hand in his death too. But both Dezhao and Defang had children before they died, and because Zhao Gou (Gaozong), the first Southern Song emperor, lost his only son to disease, he adopted one of Defang's descendants as his own son. This was Zhao Yuan (whose name was changed to Zhao Wei upon being adopted in 1160 and then to Zhao Shen shortly before succeeding to the throne in 1162), posthumously Song Xiaozong.

Zhao Dezhao's line had its turn too. Song Ningzong (who was Xiaozong's grandson) had eight sons, but all died young, and in 1221 he adopted his nephew Zhao Hong as heir. But Zhao Hong was opposed to the domination of the prime minister Shi Miyuan, and so when Ningzong was on his death bed in 1224, Shi Miyuan conspired with Ningzong's empress to forge an imperial edict replacing Zhao Hong with Zhao Guicheng, who was Zhao Dezhao's descendant but had already been adopted as the heir of Zhao Hong's own biological father (i.e. Ningzong's brother - complicated, eh?). Zhao Guicheng then became Ningzong's adopted son and changed his name to Zhao Yun - this was Song Lizong. Lizong had no sons, so he adopted a nephew Zhao Jiu (whose name was then changed to Zhao Ji) in 1253 - this was Song Duzong. The last three emperors of Southern Song - Zhao Xian whom the Mongols captured at Lin'an, and Zhao Shi and Zhao Bing who were supported by the loyalist resistance - were all Duzong's sons. So one could say that all but one of the Southern Song emperors was a descendant of Zhao Kuangyin, even though none of the Northern Song emperors was Zhao Kuangyin's descendant.

QUOTE
Yinreng was second son that grew up to maturity, but he was the 8th.


Yes, but by the time Yinreng was born in 1674, all but one of his seven elder brothers had died in infancy. What I meant is that he was the second living son at the time he was made crown prince, i.e. in early 1676.
Prince of the South
QUOTE (madalibi @ Aug 15 2008, 12:28 PM) *
A rumor already circulated in the 1720s that Yinzhen 胤禛 modified the edict of succession that Kangxi wrote on his death bed. This rumor was discussed and refuted in the Dayi juemi lu 大義覺迷錄, a book that Yongzheng contributed to writing and that he distributed in prefectural schools throughout the empire (brief background here, post 5).

The key phrase in that hypothetical edict was "傳十四阿哥": "pass [the throne to] the fourteenth imperial prince." Kangxi's 14th son was Yinti 胤禵, who was off on a military campaign. The phrase was important because it could supposedly be turned modified to "傳于四阿歌": "pass [the throne] to the fourth imperial prince." The 4th imperial prince was of course Yinzhen. It is true that Manchu grammar would not allow for such a modification, but even the Chinese forgery would have been impossible, because imperial princes were referred to as "huang age" 皇阿哥, not just "age" 阿哥.


I think it has to be pointed out that the edict would not just mention 4th or 14th prince. It would also included the prince's name. If you could change 14 to 4 how could you alter 胤禵 to 胤禛 both in Han and Manchu languages?
Prince of the South
QUOTE (Yun @ Aug 15 2008, 12:33 PM) *
Yes, but by the time Yinreng was born in 1674, all but one of his seven elder brothers had died in infancy. What I meant is that he was the second living son at the time he was made crown prince, i.e. in early 1676.


Yup
madalibi
QUOTE (Prince of the South @ Aug 15 2008, 10:59 AM) *
I think it has to be pointed out that the edict would not just mention 4th or 14th prince. It would also included the prince's name. If you could change 14 to 4 how could you alter 胤禵 to 胤禛 both in Han and Manchu languages?


That's right. This is why the "tampered edict" is such a red herring. I was just trying to show that even the most basic claim about the edict (the claim that 十 was transformed into 于) was groundless, even in Chinese.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.