Could somebody tell me how the borders of those provinces were designed ?

Why does inner mongolia have an odd shape ?


Why were qinghai carved out of tibet ?

The modern province of Tibet more or less corresponds to the area under direct control of the Dalai Lama in the second half of the Qing dynasty, which the Tibetan government controlled between the fall and the Qing and 1950, when Tibet was virtually independent. It is known to tibetans as Ü-tsang. This "strict" definition of Tibet also corresponds to the "Outer Tibet", defined by Mc Mahon in Simla, in 1914 (a distinction which China, ironically, strongly condemned back then). The rest of greater Tibet, ie the provinces of Amdo and Kham, were split between Yunnan, Sichuan and Qinghai.

Qinghai more or less corresponds to the territory held by warlord Ma Bufang until the early 50s. It includes a non Tibetan region in the north, east, and northwest (the border with Gansu being defined by natural barriers), plus all of Amdo, and a little bit of Kham.

The western borders of Yunnan and especially Sichuan are a little more complex, since they were redrawn several time, after rebellions in Kham.

Francois

OK. So there was a historical reason for carving out qinghai.

I guess the same goes to inner mongolia, the reason was because it alternated between china and mongolia in ancient times ?

Guess which area you mentioned this is seen from above

Actually "Mongolia" is relatively a new concept. It was introduced in Tang Dynasty as "蒙兀室韦", but it was not until 13th century that Mongolia began to dominate large areas. Today's Inner Mongolia is roughly demarcated by the Ming Great Wall in Shanxi, Shaanxi, Ningxia, and Gansu, because the Great Wall is seen as the border between Ming and Mongol tribes. However, in Hebei, the Great Wall is not the border.

In late Qing dynasty, western Inner Mongolia is divided into several parts: Chahar, Rehe, and Suiyuan. After 1949, parts of Chahar and Rehe were given to Hebei, including their capitals, Zhangjiakou and Chengde. The eastern part of Inner Mongolia was called "Xingan Province" before 1947, and was divided into 3 parts and given to Heilongjiang, Jilin, and Liaoning in 1950s. Later, they were given back to Inner Mongolia.

Inner Mongolia has closer ties with China, while the Outer Mongolia, also called Khalkha Mongol, is more self-ruled.

When outer mongolia gained independence, why didn't inner mongolia followed ?

What do you mean by "closer ties" ? Isn't it a province of china now ?

Outer Mongolia declared independence from Qing China in 1911. Then with some degree of of Soviet support became the Mongolian People's Republic in 1924.

The Inner Mongolia areas also tried to break away from what was running China but could not because of Chinese warlord/government intervention. Its proximity to China made it harder to "cede" than the Outer areas.

The Gobi Desert is the main course for this "tie". Inner and Outer Mongolia are divided roughly by Gobi Desert. This is a natural obstacle. In Ming dynasty, the area of Inner Mongolia is called "South Desert Mongol", while the Outer Mongolia is called "North Desert Mongol". Further, as stated by Sinoid, Inner Mongolia was ruled by several warlords after Qing, those warlords prevented it from independence. As far as I know, warlord Zhang Zuolin ruled northeastern part of Inner Mongolia from 1912 to 1928 through series of battles with pro-independent Mongolian Nobles.

If you see the area from the air, you will notice that the sand areas are in China and as it crosses into Mongolia, it becomes more semi arid pasture. You can also see a road that Chinese have built that pretty much runs parallel to the border. I think this is the highway that one will take their 4x4 on if they want to try to reach Kharakhoto from the east.

Was the gobi desert a natural barrier for the mongols to cross over to china ?

If it is, why build the great wall of china further south ?

For the Great Wall, I mean Ming Great Wall.

The area between the Ming Great Wall and Gobi desert had been fluctuated between Zhongyuan dynasties and north nomadic tribes (Xiongnu, Rouran, Turks, and Mongol) in the ancient times. Hetao 河套, the fertile area that surrounds the turn of the Yellow River, which is now within Inner Mongolia, was the main battle field in Ming dynasty. South Desert Mongols lived in the south of Gobi Desert, they fought constantly with Ming in Hetao. At the very beginning, Ming armies were able to control these areas, but after Zhengtong's Reign, Mongol tribes led by Esen Khan began to control these areas. Since then, Ming still built several forts in Hetao, they were called "Duoyan Guards".

The Great Wall around Beijing was built in Hongwu's Reign, but those in the western provinces were built much later. The Great Wall in Gansu was even built in the 1570s, which is nearly the end of Ming dynasty. That indicates Ming's control over western Inner Mongolia before its decline.

It is in areas roughly west of the Ningxia province.

Specially speaking, Gobi is referred to "Gobi Desert" that lies in the western part of Inner Mongolia, and it is now served as the western border between China and Mongolia.

Generally speaking, Gobi is a vast dry area: east of Altai Mountains, west of Greater Khingan mountains, north of North China Plain, and south of Mongolian Grassland. It includes all the deserts between China and Mongolia, such as Kubuqi Desert, Badain Jaran Desert, Wulanbuhe Desert, Maowusu Desert.

So Gobi as a general meaning is the natural border between Inner Mongolia and Outer Mongolia.

I think it is possibly you made an error in defining "Duoyan Guards"; it is not a fort, and furthermore it is not in Hetao.

It is better to translate it as "Duoyan Wei"(朵顏衛)，　Here "wei" is a kind of administrative unit. Another type of administrative unit is province (in Ming it is called Buzhengsi布政司 but we can use the term province to call it).

The difference between "wei" and province is that "wei" is a military-dominated unit.

For example, the Guangdong province was called Guangdong Buzhengsi （廣東布政司）in Ming dynasty, while Ningxia was called Ningxia Wei (寧夏衛) since it is located on the northern border with the nomadic.　

Now talking about the "Duoyan Wei", it is a Mongolian tribe living the west-Liaoning, just to the north of Beijing. There are several Mongolian tribes who are loyal to the Ming government, "Duoyan wei" is one of them. This Mongolian tribe is one important force in protecting the northern border of Ming; and it was also the main military force that the Yongle emperor Zhudi had before he usurped the throne and became the emperor.

Notably the Manchu tribe, before its rebellion against the Ming, was called the "Jianzhou Wei" (建州衛).



Furthermore, I think that the Great Wall should not be confused with the border. The wall is a defensive devise; it was built for military purposes. but it does not mean that the country who built the wall does not have control over the regions outside the wall.

From the Ming's side, it has two options during a war: either to fight outside the wall, or to close the wall and defend on the wall; of course the latter is the last choice.