Hello!
I am still very limited about Tang geographical over times.
So, I have a question for Tang territorial change from the mid 600s to Kai Yuan era.
What happens for the Tang that the western corridor was reduced gradually before it was cut off by the Tibetans?
The second issue is this map:
http://www.cultural-china.com/chinaWH/feat...ap_tang_big.jpg
While losing the Western territories, what happened with the northern part, why there were a large junk heading toward Manchuria? How did Tang control this?
Full Version: The Western Corridor
Hello Boleslaw,
Regarding the west, is your question really about the historical significance of the Four Garrisons? If so there are significant discussions on CHF about them already.
Regarding the northeast, Tang efforts to control southern Manchuria mainly had to do with the need to keep the Khitan and Hsi peoples in check, esp. after the Khitan invasion in 696. Powerful military units were put in place under the military governors of Ping-lu and Fan-yang. The military governor of Fanyang for example had some 90,000 troops under his direct command. In some respects the northeast military commands were the most powerful and weighty ones under the Tang. Indeed it was with the resources of these two military commands that An lushan prosecuted his rebellion.
Another reason for the Tang interest in the northeast had to do with the intermittent wars with Koguryo and the Tang's need for a secure base to launch invasions of the Korean peninsula. This also involved the Tang in diplomatic manoeuvres around the region including its efforts to contain the rise of the Parhae/Bohai kingdom in north and central Manchuria which threatened both Tang interests as well as those of Tang allies such as Silla. There is a long and involved thread on Parhae/Bohai here on CHF if you are interested in pursuing this topic.
Cheers, Richard
Regarding the west, is your question really about the historical significance of the Four Garrisons? If so there are significant discussions on CHF about them already.
Regarding the northeast, Tang efforts to control southern Manchuria mainly had to do with the need to keep the Khitan and Hsi peoples in check, esp. after the Khitan invasion in 696. Powerful military units were put in place under the military governors of Ping-lu and Fan-yang. The military governor of Fanyang for example had some 90,000 troops under his direct command. In some respects the northeast military commands were the most powerful and weighty ones under the Tang. Indeed it was with the resources of these two military commands that An lushan prosecuted his rebellion.
Another reason for the Tang interest in the northeast had to do with the intermittent wars with Koguryo and the Tang's need for a secure base to launch invasions of the Korean peninsula. This also involved the Tang in diplomatic manoeuvres around the region including its efforts to contain the rise of the Parhae/Bohai kingdom in north and central Manchuria which threatened both Tang interests as well as those of Tang allies such as Silla. There is a long and involved thread on Parhae/Bohai here on CHF if you are interested in pursuing this topic.
Cheers, Richard
As far as I can see, the loss of Hexi corridor in the West to the hand of Tibetans and the loss of Chinese control to Western regions proved very fatal for the later Song dynasty. I think even during the reign of emperor Gao Zhong, there were already problems in maintaining western parts due to constant rebellions.
The Tibetan control of the corridor is only temporary, it was later retrieved by Zhang Yi Chao in 851 after the Tibetan Empire collapsed.
Thats because in 788, the Tang made the Shi Wei Duhu fu, by making the Shi Wei tribes into a Tang administrative unit. But this seem to be only a nominal title since the Tang had little power over the north at this time. But after the collapse of the Uighur state in 840, the Tang launched a northern campaign that regained much of its influence in the north and northeast.
QUOTE
While losing the Western territories, what happened with the northern part, why there were a large junk heading toward Manchuria? How did Tang control this?
Thats because in 788, the Tang made the Shi Wei Duhu fu, by making the Shi Wei tribes into a Tang administrative unit. But this seem to be only a nominal title since the Tang had little power over the north at this time. But after the collapse of the Uighur state in 840, the Tang launched a northern campaign that regained much of its influence in the north and northeast.
QUOTE (Borjigin Ayurbarwada @ Sep 7 2008, 07:37 AM) 
The Tibetan control of the corridor is only temporary, it was later retrieved by Zhang Yi Chao in 851 after the Tibetan Empire collapsed.
Thats because in 788, the Tang made the Shi Wei Duhu fu, by making the Shi Wei tribes into a Tang administrative unit. But this seem to be only a nominal title since the Tang had little power over the north at this time. But after the collapse of the Uighur state in 840, the Tang launched a northern campaign that regained much of its influence in the north and northeast.
Thats because in 788, the Tang made the Shi Wei Duhu fu, by making the Shi Wei tribes into a Tang administrative unit. But this seem to be only a nominal title since the Tang had little power over the north at this time. But after the collapse of the Uighur state in 840, the Tang launched a northern campaign that regained much of its influence in the north and northeast.
Hello BA!
So, it seems that Tang territory would regain after 866, right? This means the map around this year would be enlarged toward the West again.
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