Full Version: Siberia roots of Japanese
China History Forum, Chinese History Forum > Off Topic Heaven > Asian History and Culture > Asian Anthropology
Little is written or discuss about Siberia roots of Japanese people.Siberian natives are the closest NE Asian kin to majority of general Japanese population.
One ' indigenous ' tradition of Japanese shares with Yakut people of Siberia is Ubasuteyama ( 姥捨て山 ).t was a practice formerly performed in Japan, whereby an infirm or elderly relative was carried to a mountain, or some other remote, desolate place, and left there to die, either by dehydration, starvation, or exposure. The practice was most common during times of drought and famine, and was sometimes mandated by feudal officials.
Ubasuteyama sometimes appears as a metaphor for contemporary Japan's treatment of the elderly, who are noted for their above-average suicide rates.
You can see it in ' The Ballad of Narayama ' ( 楢山節考 - poster attached ),a 1983 film based on the book Men of Tohoku by Shichiro Fukuzawa.
there's a thread for this and you know it full well.
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=20372
and again, you should actually do some research about this region as you're doing the same generalization as you do with you did with "Yue" but worse.
there's no such thing as a "Siberian" ethnicity.
You have a region that's sparsely populated, but very wide and very diverse with people migrating there in different waves at different times.
Your "Yakuts" are primarily Turkic and they are rather recent migrants to that region, they moved there around the time of Genghis Khan and their combat with Tungusic speaking Evenks are well told in oral tales on both sides.. by the time this occured, the Japanese were already well established.
the Yakuts rarely ventured even near the coast until recently and neither did their Northern Tungusic rivals (the Evenki and Even).
The only coastal people were the "Paleo Siberians" like Chukchi and Kamchadal who are ethnically very different from the Yakuts or Tungusic speakers.
the Nivkhi who speak an isolated language, and the Nani (Nanai, Udeghe, etc) who are southern Tungusic speakers and more closely related with the Manchus.
Your example of trying to use one similar ceremony is incredibly insubstantial evidence. Jews who think the Japanese are a lost tribe of Israel will point to an even greater number of similarities which include customs, symbols and vocabulary but no one takes them seriously either.
Stick to genetic evidence.
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=20372
and again, you should actually do some research about this region as you're doing the same generalization as you do with you did with "Yue" but worse.
there's no such thing as a "Siberian" ethnicity.
You have a region that's sparsely populated, but very wide and very diverse with people migrating there in different waves at different times.
Your "Yakuts" are primarily Turkic and they are rather recent migrants to that region, they moved there around the time of Genghis Khan and their combat with Tungusic speaking Evenks are well told in oral tales on both sides.. by the time this occured, the Japanese were already well established.
the Yakuts rarely ventured even near the coast until recently and neither did their Northern Tungusic rivals (the Evenki and Even).
The only coastal people were the "Paleo Siberians" like Chukchi and Kamchadal who are ethnically very different from the Yakuts or Tungusic speakers.
the Nivkhi who speak an isolated language, and the Nani (Nanai, Udeghe, etc) who are southern Tungusic speakers and more closely related with the Manchus.
Your example of trying to use one similar ceremony is incredibly insubstantial evidence. Jews who think the Japanese are a lost tribe of Israel will point to an even greater number of similarities which include customs, symbols and vocabulary but no one takes them seriously either.
Stick to genetic evidence.
Here is a Japanese DNA map ( posted by CHF Korean forumite SNK 1408 in another thread ) shows Japonic islands & vast area of Siberia share ' closest ' gene markers.
It's non-Chinese source
Emperor Meiji & Hirohito,both had ' distinctive proto-Siberian ' looks ( sharp narrow face & slender physical built )
A thread on some random modern Mongolians,they look more similiar to northern Chinese & Koreans & mainland SE Asians.Japanese royalty is of different breed.
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...c=27798&hl=
Hirohito looks nothing like native Siberians. Native Siberians have very high eyebrows, light complexion, larger physical build.
QUOTE (peepee @ Oct 3 2008, 12:32 AM) 
Little is written or discuss about Siberia roots of Japanese people.Siberian natives are the closest NE Asian kin to majority of general Japanese population.
One ' indigenous ' tradition of Japanese shares with Yakut people of Siberia is Ubasuteyama ( 姥捨て山 ).t was a practice formerly performed in Japan, whereby an infirm or elderly relative was carried to a mountain, or some other remote, desolate place, and left there to die, either by dehydration, starvation, or exposure. The practice was most common during times of drought and famine, and was sometimes mandated by feudal officials.
Ubasuteyama sometimes appears as a metaphor for contemporary Japan's treatment of the elderly, who are noted for their above-average suicide rates.
You can see it in ' The Ballad of Narayama ' ( 楢山節考 - poster attached ),a 1983 film based on the book Men of Tohoku by Shichiro Fukuzawa.
One ' indigenous ' tradition of Japanese shares with Yakut people of Siberia is Ubasuteyama ( 姥捨て山 ).t was a practice formerly performed in Japan, whereby an infirm or elderly relative was carried to a mountain, or some other remote, desolate place, and left there to die, either by dehydration, starvation, or exposure. The practice was most common during times of drought and famine, and was sometimes mandated by feudal officials.
Ubasuteyama sometimes appears as a metaphor for contemporary Japan's treatment of the elderly, who are noted for their above-average suicide rates.
You can see it in ' The Ballad of Narayama ' ( 楢山節考 - poster attached ),a 1983 film based on the book Men of Tohoku by Shichiro Fukuzawa.
That's "some" cultural evidence. You cite no sources.
You need to give some genetic evidence as well. Modern Japanese are basically a mixture of Jomon elements (from Tibet), southeastern coastal Chinese (Jiangsu Chinese), Koreans. Relation with Siberians among common Japanese is nil.
QUOTE (akhissar @ Oct 3 2008, 02:14 AM)
Hirohito looks nothing like native Siberians. Native Siberians have very high eyebrows, light complexion, larger physical build.
Neither did he or his forebears looked Chinese or Korean
Don't forget,his ancestor were ' proto-Siberian '.
QUOTE (peepee @ Oct 3 2008, 03:21 AM)
Neither did he or his forebears looked Chinese or Korean
Don't forget,his ancestor were ' proto-Siberian '.
Don't forget,his ancestor were ' proto-Siberian '.
Can you prove that his ancestors were proto-Siberian? Japanese are a mix of Jomon (from Tibet), Jiangsu Chinese and Koreans. Can't see a Siberian element there. Ainu aren't even Siberian nor paleo-Siberian.
Here are your typical native Siberians
Why do Japanese only have 2-5% frequency of haplogroup C3? C3 is frequent in native Siberians.
QUOTE (akhissar @ Oct 3 2008, 07:53 AM)
Here are your typical native Siberians
Cool .... many of them look ' very distinctively Japanese '.
The third photo reminds of Japanese actor yakuza boss ' Takeshi Kitano '
QUOTE (akhissar @ Oct 3 2008, 07:53 AM)
Here are your typical native Siberians
The man on the right looks very similiar to Hideki Tojo.
QUOTE (peepee @ Oct 3 2008, 07:41 AM)
Here is a Japanese DNA map ( posted by CHF Korean forumite SNK 1408 in another thread ) shows Japonic islands & vast area of Siberia share ' closest ' gene markers.
It's non-Chinese source
It's non-Chinese source
here's a bigger version of the Map you attached.
so by accepting this map as your source of proof, you probably agree that the Koreans are the closest to the Japanese then since their pie chart is very similar to the Japanese ones.
(so far its probably the ONLY attempt at posting some kind of proof in this thread as everything else is just based on your own
observations, there's thread is incredibly subjective).
moved.moved.
to more related forum.
to more related forum.
QUOTE (akhissar @ Oct 3 2008, 05:14 AM)
Hirohito looks nothing like native Siberians. Native Siberians have very high eyebrows, light complexion, larger physical build.
Yes you are quite correct in what you said above.
Remember this famous picture of Gen. Douglas McArthur standing next to Hirohito after WWII
Japanese relation in native Siberians is nil. How come a very small percentage of Japanese have haplogroup C3 (not even C3 original or C3c)?
And the photos of the Siberians... none of them look Japanese.
And the photos of the Siberians... none of them look Japanese.
QUOTE (Karakhan @ Oct 3 2008, 11:20 AM)
here's a bigger version of the Map you attached.
so by accepting this map as your source of proof, you probably agree that the Koreans are the closest to the Japanese then since their pie chart is very similar to the Japanese ones.
(so far its probably the ONLY attempt at posting some kind of proof in this thread as everything else is just based on your own
observations, there's thread is incredibly subjective).
to clarify, the map may mislead people because it says "idenshi" at the top which means genes, but on the bottom, it clearly states that this is a map of blood types. It uses GM or Gamma globulin marker which are proteins in blood.
As for Siberian roots of Japanese. In many Japanese textbooks we've used, N.E Asia saw two groups of mongoloids which were labeled as new and old mongoloids. New mongoloids are pretty much the Koreans, Tungusic and Mongols, and most likely the Yayoi, who spread eastward from Northern Central Asia (around Altai to Lake Baikal) and mixed or replaced along the way. There were an earlier group called the old mongoloids who are more of a mystery, but we know they exist due to fossil remains. The Jomon are those old mongoloids with the Ainu and Okinawans being some of their descendants.
Today most of the people Siberia are "new mongoloids" and they are very recent migrants. Like stated, the Yakut are recent arrivals and originated from Lake Baikal, most of the other peoples there are also more recent arrivals who were pushed up north due to conflicts down south. The only exceptions I can think of, are the Chukcha in Chukotka, Aleut, Nivkhi, Koryaks, and Kamchadals who are probably closer related to the old mongoloids.
There's been a few studies where the Ainu shared some genetic similarity with the Chukcha and Nivkhi.
Abstract The Ainu, a minority ethnic group from the northernmost island of Japan, was investigated for DNA polymorphisms both from maternal (mitochondrial DNA) and paternal (Y chromosome) lineages extensively. Other Asian populations inhabiting North, East, and Southeast Asia were also examined for detailed phylogeographic analyses at the mtDNA sequence type as well as Y-haplogroup levels. The maternal and paternal gene pools of the Ainu contained 25 mtDNA sequence types and three Y-haplogroups, respectively. Eleven of the 25 mtDNA sequence types were unique to the Ainu and accounted for over 50% of the population, whereas 14 were widely distributed among other Asian populations. Of the 14 shared types, the most frequently shared type was found in common among the Ainu, Nivkhi in northern Sakhalin, and Koryaks in the Kamchatka Peninsula. Moreover, analysis of genetic distances calculated from the mtDNA data revealed that the Ainu seemed to be related to both the Nivkhi and other Japanese populations (such as mainland Japanese and Okinawans) at the population level. On the paternal side, the vast majority (87.5%) of the Ainu exhibited the Asian-specific YAP+ lineages (Y-haplogroups D-M55* and D-M125), which were distributed only in the Japanese Archipelago in this analysis. On the other hand, the Ainu exhibited no other Y-haplogroups (C-M8, O-M175*, and O-M122*) common in mainland Japanese and Okinawans. It is noteworthy that the rest of the Ainu gene pool was occupied by the paternal lineage (Y-haplogroup C-M217*) from North Asia including Sakhalin. Thus, the present findings suggest that the Ainu retain a certain degree of their own genetic uniqueness, while having higher genetic affinities with other regional populations in Japan and the Nivkhi among Asian populations.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/myajcelww7jeh0xf/
I also don't see the point in posting pictures other than amusement, even if two groups shared a large number of similar genes, differing genes may create "distinct" features between two groups that may make them look similar but slightly different. I'm also very familiar with how Ainu and Okinawans look, their range of looks, as well as the Japanese looks since I actually lived there and also took the effort to meet the Ainu and their communities.. and I can say that only some of the Tungusic peoples could look similar to Japanese (and Koreans), but none of those Russian ethnicities show the same hairiness found in the Ainu or Okinawans. However whether they look the same or not does not mean their genetics will be the same.. some of the most different looking ethnicities may share a large number of similar genes. To conclude, to whoever posts in this thread, good luck finding decent sources, there's very few people who research Japanese - Russian minorities - Native American genetics and the ones that exist are usually from the same people with the same information.
there is however, alot of research between differences in the genetic relations of Russian minorities, and it goes to show that one cannot assume all Siberians are the same.
QUOTE (Chanpuru @ Oct 3 2008, 11:01 PM)
As for Siberian roots of Japanese. In many Japanese textbooks we've used, N.E Asia saw two groups of mongoloids which were labeled as new and old mongoloids. New mongoloids are pretty much the Koreans, Tungusic and Mongols, and most likely the Yayoi, who spread eastward from Northern Central Asia (around Altai to Lake Baikal) and mixed or replaced along the way. There were an earlier group called the old mongoloids who are more of a mystery, but we know they exist due to fossil remains. The Jomon are those old mongoloids with the Ainu and Okinawans being some of their descendants.
I also don't see the point in posting pictures other than amusement, even if two groups shared a large number of similar genes, differing genes may create "distinct" features between two groups that may make them look similar but slightly different.
I also don't see the point in posting pictures other than amusement, even if two groups shared a large number of similar genes, differing genes may create "distinct" features between two groups that may make them look similar but slightly different.
Japanese believe indigenous population ( Wa-jins & other groups ) of Japonic islands was ' old proto-Mongoloid ' later mixed with Torai-jin ( Chinese & Koreans ) immigrants from Asia mainland.
The worst offender was poster ' color red ',he has gotten a ' free pass ' by flooded CHF and countless Asian-oriented forums with Chinese Japanese Korean photos to show that Chinese and SE Asian people look exactly alike and Japanese have own distinctive facial appearances different from Chinese.Oddly though,not only no objections,he received applauds for his ' spamming ' efforts.
QUOTE (akhissar @ Oct 3 2008, 03:45 PM)
Japanese relation in native Siberians is nil.
You can say that to Baekje bloodline in Yamato Dynasty is nil,0000000000000001% at best.Boy,I've read so many plain stupid unsupported online posts stated how ' thick Kudara blood ' is the Japanese royal family.
では、天皇の「朝鮮濃度」を計算してみましょう。
★現天皇のゆかり発言で有名になった桓武天皇の母親の高野新笠の系図
武寧王[461年日本生まれ第25代百済王(在位501-523年)]
純陀太子 在日１世 （日本に人質に）
斯我君 在日２世
法師君 在日３世
雄蘇利紀君 在日４世
和史宇奈羅 在日５世 （和氏に改名して日本に帰化）
和史粟勝 在日６世
和史浄足 在日７世
和史武助 在日８世
和史乙継 在日９世（娘を天皇家に嫁がせて高野姓を賜る）
高野朝臣新笠 在日１０世―桓武天皇[第50代天皇(在位781-806年)]
・・・つまり桓武天皇の母親の高野新笠は10代前に渡来し、6代前に日本に帰化した百済系10世なのです。
彼女の百済系の割合は1/(2^10)=0.00098。パーセントにすると0.098%となります。
逆に日本系の割合は99.902%で、血筋から見ても帰化している事から見ても正真正銘の日本人です。
Aren't the Ainu from Siberia? If so, some Japanese many as well be related to Siberians.
some maps posted elsewhere but relevant to this thread
mtDNA and Y haplogroups, much more relevant towards genetics than using a pie chart on blood types.
mtDNA and Y haplogroups, much more relevant towards genetics than using a pie chart on blood types.
QUOTE (gogop @ Oct 5 2008, 07:47 AM)
Aren't the Ainu from Siberia? If so, some Japanese many as well be related to Siberians.
The Ainu descend mostly from the Jomon, they resided around the Sea of Okhotsk, mainly Hokkaido, Sakhalin, Kuril Islands and the tip of Kamchatka.
some people mistakenly classify this region as Siberia because they think the entire Asiatic Russia is Siberia.
Indigenous people around the Sea of Okhotsk have strong differences.
linguistically you have the Tungusic Oroks in Sakhalin, Even in Kamchatka, and Nanai in the Khabarovsk,
but you also have Turkic Yakuts in Yakutia and Magadan, Paleo-Siberians like the Koryak and Chukchi in Kamchatka and Chukotka
who have very little relations with the last two groups, the Nivkh who are classified as paleo-siberian but have no relations
with the Koryak or Chukchi, and the Ainu who have no linguistic relations with any of them as well.
Since these peoples left very few records, its hard to determine their history. But the Yakuts as explained earlier,
have a strong oral tradition which if true, means they are recent to Siberia and the Russian far east and probably have
weaker connections with the existing people.
The Oroks of Sakhalin are also recent and are probably the same people as the Nanai but engage in reindeer herding instead of fishing.
Please note, modern Siberian and ancient Siberian were vastly different stock.
Japanese may have been closer to people of Buyeo line (Baekje, Goguryo) but many Japanese do have Samhan line ancestry (Silla-Gaya); well at least this is what Koreans believe.
Modern Siberian have no relation with todays Japanese or Korean population because of newly migrated people and isolation. Generally DNA studies done in Japan were politically distorted due to Japanese themselves are trying to be differ themselves from rest of asian race.
We will never know the actual DNA studies from Japan, also development of industrial and cities & towns, many locals are not the real locals due to migration of country people to mega cities.
Japanese may have been closer to people of Buyeo line (Baekje, Goguryo) but many Japanese do have Samhan line ancestry (Silla-Gaya); well at least this is what Koreans believe.
Modern Siberian have no relation with todays Japanese or Korean population because of newly migrated people and isolation. Generally DNA studies done in Japan were politically distorted due to Japanese themselves are trying to be differ themselves from rest of asian race.
We will never know the actual DNA studies from Japan, also development of industrial and cities & towns, many locals are not the real locals due to migration of country people to mega cities.
QUOTE (SNK_1408 @ Oct 12 2008, 09:10 PM)
Japanese may have been closer to people of Buyeo line (Baekje, Goguryo) but many Japanese do have Samhan line ancestry (Silla-Gaya); well at least this is what Koreans believe.
The ' old ' Japanese stock were of proto-Mongoloid,i.e.Wa-jins ( 倭人: Japanese ) and Jomon-jins.They were neither Sinic nor Koreanic.Just because one ( Korean ) wishes to be something doesn't make it so.
Those Koreans were immigrants ( Torai-jins,also included Chinese ) arrived in Japonic islands in the 3th-6th centuries.Blood lines of Torai-jin only contributed 10%-15% to modern Japanese gene pool.
Japan's shoban 諸蕃 ( or 蕃 別 banbetsu ) was a family registry designated Japanese clans known to be of continental descent.
* 【漢帰化族】 naturalized Han-Chinese
周人の末裔【大里氏】【長野氏】【広野氏】【三宅氏】【山田氏】【伊部氏】【白鳥氏】【白原氏】【調氏】【 長岑氏】【首氏】【水海氏】
秦の始皇帝の末裔【秦氏】【太秦氏】【惟宗氏】【朝原氏】【大蔵氏】【河勝氏】【桜田氏】【宗氏】【高尾氏】【時原氏】【寺氏】【 秦原氏】【広幡氏】【物集氏】【三林氏】【井手氏】【川辺氏】【中家氏】【原氏】【小宅氏】【井手氏】【長 田氏】【巨知氏】【長岡氏】【奈良氏】【大滝氏】【山村氏】
漢の高祖の末裔【厚見氏】【馬氏】【浄野氏】【栗栖氏】【古志氏】【高志氏】【桜野氏】【武生氏】【高道氏 】【玉作氏】【豊岡氏】【春沢氏】【桧前氏】【文氏】【尾津氏】【村主氏】
後漢霊帝の末裔【坂上氏】【大蔵氏】【丹波氏】【調氏】【木津氏】【桧原氏】【内蔵氏】【山口氏】【平田氏 】【佐太氏】【谷氏】【桜井氏】【路氏】【文氏】【桧前氏】【蔵人氏】【志賀氏】【広原氏】【池辺氏】【栗 栖氏】
その他漢帝の末裔【桑原氏】【下氏】【桧前氏】【若江氏】【田辺氏】【谷氏】【豊岡氏】【八戸氏】【高安氏 】【高道氏】【春井氏】【河内氏】
漢の国人の末裔【大原氏】【吉水氏】【真神氏】【台氏】【交野氏】
魏人の末裔【高向氏】【上氏】【高根氏】【筑紫氏】【平松氏】【雲梯氏】【郡氏】【河内氏】【河原氏】【鋤 田氏】【野上氏】【広橋氏】【穴太氏】
呉人の末裔【蜂田氏】【深根氏】【松野氏】【和楽氏】【工氏】【祝部氏】【額田氏】【勝氏】【上氏】【刑部 氏】【茨田氏】【高向氏】【小豆氏】
漢人の末裔【伊吉氏（壱岐氏）】【交野氏】【広海氏】【吉水氏】
燕人の末裔【赤染氏】【赤染部氏】【常世氏】【筆氏】
唐人の末裔【江田氏】【清宗氏】【清海氏】【清川氏】【浄山氏】【栄山氏】【千代氏】【新長氏 】
その他の漢土帰化族【大山氏】【大石氏（生石氏）】【高丘氏】【朝妻氏】【清村氏】【春村氏】
* 【百済帰化族】 naturalized Baekje
百済国王の末裔【三善氏】【多々良氏】【百済氏】【和氏】【葛井氏】【船氏】【津氏】【菅野氏】【宮原氏】
【石野氏】【大丘氏】【沙田氏】【中科氏】【岡氏】【広津氏】【不破氏】【春野氏】【高野氏】
【真野氏】【刑部氏】【岡屋氏】【広井氏】【原氏】【河内氏】【錦部氏】【岡原氏】【林氏】
【古市氏】【六人部氏】
百済国人の末裔【調氏】【林氏】【香山氏】【高槻氏】【広田氏】【神前氏】【小高氏】【百済氏】【清原氏】
【広海氏】【麻田氏】【大県氏】【道祖氏】【大原氏】【民氏】【御池氏】【中野氏】【杉谷氏】
【坂田氏】【上氏】【不破氏】【漢人氏】【賈氏】【伊部氏】【末氏】【木氏】【勝氏】【波多氏】
【薦口氏】【三野氏】【村主氏】【水海氏】【山河氏】【呉服氏】【信太氏】
【高麗帰化族】 naturalized Koguryo
高麗国王の末裔【高麗氏】【狛氏】【高氏】【長背氏】【難波氏】【後部氏】【高井氏】
高麗国人の末裔【豊原氏】【福当氏】【出水氏】【新城氏】【日置氏】【王氏】【高氏】【島氏】
【高田氏】【桑原氏】【八坂氏】【鳥井氏】【栄井氏】【吉井氏】【和氏】【島木氏】
【新羅帰化族】 naturalized Silla
新羅国王の末裔【三宅氏】【糸井氏】
新羅国人の末裔【豊原氏】【海原氏】【真城氏】【日根氏】
【任那帰化族】 naturalized Gaya
任那国王の末裔【道田氏】【大市氏】【清水氏】【多々良氏】【大伴氏】
任那国人の末裔【豊津氏】
【その他朝鮮帰化族】
【麻田氏】【長倉氏】
【渤海帰化族】 naturalized Bohai/Parhae
【高氏】【高庭氏】
Source: http://www.myj7000.jp-biz.net/clan/03/03.htm
In grade school,Japanese kids learn about Torai-jins ( 渡来人 ) from Korea peninsula & China and also noted their contributions to Japan ( source: 史実では「中国と朝鮮半島から来た渡来系民族」と小学生でも知っている事ですが ).
* below is a photo of native Siberian,he looks very Japanese.
QUOTE (peepee @ Oct 13 2008, 05:38 AM)
* below is a photo of native Siberian,he looks very Japanese.
below is a photo of more native "siberians", not just one but a few. They don't look very Japanese. Anyone can pick and choose a picture to prove their point..
To the mods: 2 pages later, the op has yet to post one single academic journal to back up his/her claim and relies heavily on pictures rather than data.
it is not this thread but many threads in this entire section. Its clear that the op is interested in distancing the Japanese from the Koreans and creating a number
of questionable threads with no real data. Even Dearcoolz posts data from journals from time to time. This thread should be closed.
This is ridiculous...
I never thought I would see the day when a person would try to use pictures of indigenous minority groups in Siberia to prove that they were more closely related to Japanese than to Koreans.
Peepee, you are only being counterproductive to your own cause; anyone with half a brain can see that Siberians look significantly more similar to Koreans than they do to Japanese. Just let it drop.
Just look at that Evenki devushka pictured second from left in the photo posted by Karakhan; she may have green(ish) eyes, white skin, and brown hair, but she still looks like Margaret Cho.
I never thought I would see the day when a person would try to use pictures of indigenous minority groups in Siberia to prove that they were more closely related to Japanese than to Koreans.
Peepee, you are only being counterproductive to your own cause; anyone with half a brain can see that Siberians look significantly more similar to Koreans than they do to Japanese. Just let it drop.
Just look at that Evenki devushka pictured second from left in the photo posted by Karakhan; she may have green(ish) eyes, white skin, and brown hair, but she still looks like Margaret Cho.
QUOTE (peepee @ Oct 13 2008, 02:38 PM)
The ' old ' Japanese stock were of proto-Mongoloid,i.e.Wa-jins ( 倭人: Japanese ) and Jomon-jins.They were neither Sinic nor Koreanic.Just because one ( Korean ) wishes to be something doesn't make it so.
Those Koreans were immigrants ( Torai-jins,also included Chinese ) arrived in Japonic islands in the 3th-6th centuries.Blood lines of Torai-jin only contributed 10%-15% to modern Japanese gene pool.
Japan's shoban 諸蕃 ( or 蕃 別 banbetsu ) was a family registry designated Japanese clans known to be of continental descent.
* 【漢帰化族】 naturalized Han-Chinese
周人の末裔【大里氏】【長野氏】【広野氏】【三宅氏】【山田氏】【伊部氏】【白鳥氏】【白原氏】【調氏】【 長岑氏】【首氏】【水海氏】
秦の始皇帝の末裔【秦氏】【太秦氏】【惟宗氏】【朝原氏】【大蔵氏】【河勝氏】【桜田氏】【宗氏】【高尾氏】【時原氏】【寺氏】【 秦原氏】【広幡氏】【物集氏】【三林氏】【井手氏】【川辺氏】【中家氏】【原氏】【小宅氏】【井手氏】【長 田氏】【巨知氏】【長岡氏】【奈良氏】【大滝氏】【山村氏】
漢の高祖の末裔【厚見氏】【馬氏】【浄野氏】【栗栖氏】【古志氏】【高志氏】【桜野氏】【武生氏】【高道氏 】【玉作氏】【豊岡氏】【春沢氏】【桧前氏】【文氏】【尾津氏】【村主氏】
後漢霊帝の末裔【坂上氏】【大蔵氏】【丹波氏】【調氏】【木津氏】【桧原氏】【内蔵氏】【山口氏】【平田氏 】【佐太氏】【谷氏】【桜井氏】【路氏】【文氏】【桧前氏】【蔵人氏】【志賀氏】【広原氏】【池辺氏】【栗 栖氏】
その他漢帝の末裔【桑原氏】【下氏】【桧前氏】【若江氏】【田辺氏】【谷氏】【豊岡氏】【八戸氏】【高安氏 】【高道氏】【春井氏】【河内氏】
漢の国人の末裔【大原氏】【吉水氏】【真神氏】【台氏】【交野氏】
魏人の末裔【高向氏】【上氏】【高根氏】【筑紫氏】【平松氏】【雲梯氏】【郡氏】【河内氏】【河原氏】【鋤 田氏】【野上氏】【広橋氏】【穴太氏】
呉人の末裔【蜂田氏】【深根氏】【松野氏】【和楽氏】【工氏】【祝部氏】【額田氏】【勝氏】【上氏】【刑部 氏】【茨田氏】【高向氏】【小豆氏】
漢人の末裔【伊吉氏（壱岐氏）】【交野氏】【広海氏】【吉水氏】
燕人の末裔【赤染氏】【赤染部氏】【常世氏】【筆氏】
唐人の末裔【江田氏】【清宗氏】【清海氏】【清川氏】【浄山氏】【栄山氏】【千代氏】【新長氏 】
その他の漢土帰化族【大山氏】【大石氏（生石氏）】【高丘氏】【朝妻氏】【清村氏】【春村氏】
* 【百済帰化族】 naturalized Baekje
百済国王の末裔【三善氏】【多々良氏】【百済氏】【和氏】【葛井氏】【船氏】【津氏】【菅野氏】【宮原氏】
【石野氏】【大丘氏】【沙田氏】【中科氏】【岡氏】【広津氏】【不破氏】【春野氏】【高野氏】
【真野氏】【刑部氏】【岡屋氏】【広井氏】【原氏】【河内氏】【錦部氏】【岡原氏】【林氏】
【古市氏】【六人部氏】
百済国人の末裔【調氏】【林氏】【香山氏】【高槻氏】【広田氏】【神前氏】【小高氏】【百済氏】【清原氏】
【広海氏】【麻田氏】【大県氏】【道祖氏】【大原氏】【民氏】【御池氏】【中野氏】【杉谷氏】
【坂田氏】【上氏】【不破氏】【漢人氏】【賈氏】【伊部氏】【末氏】【木氏】【勝氏】【波多氏】
【薦口氏】【三野氏】【村主氏】【水海氏】【山河氏】【呉服氏】【信太氏】
【高麗帰化族】 naturalized Koguryo
高麗国王の末裔【高麗氏】【狛氏】【高氏】【長背氏】【難波氏】【後部氏】【高井氏】
高麗国人の末裔【豊原氏】【福当氏】【出水氏】【新城氏】【日置氏】【王氏】【高氏】【島氏】
【高田氏】【桑原氏】【八坂氏】【鳥井氏】【栄井氏】【吉井氏】【和氏】【島木氏】
【新羅帰化族】 naturalized Silla
新羅国王の末裔【三宅氏】【糸井氏】
新羅国人の末裔【豊原氏】【海原氏】【真城氏】【日根氏】
【任那帰化族】 naturalized Gaya
任那国王の末裔【道田氏】【大市氏】【清水氏】【多々良氏】【大伴氏】
任那国人の末裔【豊津氏】
【その他朝鮮帰化族】
【麻田氏】【長倉氏】
【渤海帰化族】 naturalized Bohai/Parhae
【高氏】【高庭氏】
Source: http://www.myj7000.jp-biz.net/clan/03/03.htm
In grade school,Japanese kids learn about Torai-jins ( 渡来人 ) from Korea peninsula & China and also noted their contributions to Japan ( source: 史実では「中国と朝鮮半島から来た渡来系民族」と小学生でも知っている事ですが ).
* below is a photo of native Siberian,he looks very Japanese.
Those Koreans were immigrants ( Torai-jins,also included Chinese ) arrived in Japonic islands in the 3th-6th centuries.Blood lines of Torai-jin only contributed 10%-15% to modern Japanese gene pool.
Japan's shoban 諸蕃 ( or 蕃 別 banbetsu ) was a family registry designated Japanese clans known to be of continental descent.
* 【漢帰化族】 naturalized Han-Chinese
周人の末裔【大里氏】【長野氏】【広野氏】【三宅氏】【山田氏】【伊部氏】【白鳥氏】【白原氏】【調氏】【 長岑氏】【首氏】【水海氏】
秦の始皇帝の末裔【秦氏】【太秦氏】【惟宗氏】【朝原氏】【大蔵氏】【河勝氏】【桜田氏】【宗氏】【高尾氏】【時原氏】【寺氏】【 秦原氏】【広幡氏】【物集氏】【三林氏】【井手氏】【川辺氏】【中家氏】【原氏】【小宅氏】【井手氏】【長 田氏】【巨知氏】【長岡氏】【奈良氏】【大滝氏】【山村氏】
漢の高祖の末裔【厚見氏】【馬氏】【浄野氏】【栗栖氏】【古志氏】【高志氏】【桜野氏】【武生氏】【高道氏 】【玉作氏】【豊岡氏】【春沢氏】【桧前氏】【文氏】【尾津氏】【村主氏】
後漢霊帝の末裔【坂上氏】【大蔵氏】【丹波氏】【調氏】【木津氏】【桧原氏】【内蔵氏】【山口氏】【平田氏 】【佐太氏】【谷氏】【桜井氏】【路氏】【文氏】【桧前氏】【蔵人氏】【志賀氏】【広原氏】【池辺氏】【栗 栖氏】
その他漢帝の末裔【桑原氏】【下氏】【桧前氏】【若江氏】【田辺氏】【谷氏】【豊岡氏】【八戸氏】【高安氏 】【高道氏】【春井氏】【河内氏】
漢の国人の末裔【大原氏】【吉水氏】【真神氏】【台氏】【交野氏】
魏人の末裔【高向氏】【上氏】【高根氏】【筑紫氏】【平松氏】【雲梯氏】【郡氏】【河内氏】【河原氏】【鋤 田氏】【野上氏】【広橋氏】【穴太氏】
呉人の末裔【蜂田氏】【深根氏】【松野氏】【和楽氏】【工氏】【祝部氏】【額田氏】【勝氏】【上氏】【刑部 氏】【茨田氏】【高向氏】【小豆氏】
漢人の末裔【伊吉氏（壱岐氏）】【交野氏】【広海氏】【吉水氏】
燕人の末裔【赤染氏】【赤染部氏】【常世氏】【筆氏】
唐人の末裔【江田氏】【清宗氏】【清海氏】【清川氏】【浄山氏】【栄山氏】【千代氏】【新長氏 】
その他の漢土帰化族【大山氏】【大石氏（生石氏）】【高丘氏】【朝妻氏】【清村氏】【春村氏】
* 【百済帰化族】 naturalized Baekje
百済国王の末裔【三善氏】【多々良氏】【百済氏】【和氏】【葛井氏】【船氏】【津氏】【菅野氏】【宮原氏】
【石野氏】【大丘氏】【沙田氏】【中科氏】【岡氏】【広津氏】【不破氏】【春野氏】【高野氏】
【真野氏】【刑部氏】【岡屋氏】【広井氏】【原氏】【河内氏】【錦部氏】【岡原氏】【林氏】
【古市氏】【六人部氏】
百済国人の末裔【調氏】【林氏】【香山氏】【高槻氏】【広田氏】【神前氏】【小高氏】【百済氏】【清原氏】
【広海氏】【麻田氏】【大県氏】【道祖氏】【大原氏】【民氏】【御池氏】【中野氏】【杉谷氏】
【坂田氏】【上氏】【不破氏】【漢人氏】【賈氏】【伊部氏】【末氏】【木氏】【勝氏】【波多氏】
【薦口氏】【三野氏】【村主氏】【水海氏】【山河氏】【呉服氏】【信太氏】
【高麗帰化族】 naturalized Koguryo
高麗国王の末裔【高麗氏】【狛氏】【高氏】【長背氏】【難波氏】【後部氏】【高井氏】
高麗国人の末裔【豊原氏】【福当氏】【出水氏】【新城氏】【日置氏】【王氏】【高氏】【島氏】
【高田氏】【桑原氏】【八坂氏】【鳥井氏】【栄井氏】【吉井氏】【和氏】【島木氏】
【新羅帰化族】 naturalized Silla
新羅国王の末裔【三宅氏】【糸井氏】
新羅国人の末裔【豊原氏】【海原氏】【真城氏】【日根氏】
【任那帰化族】 naturalized Gaya
任那国王の末裔【道田氏】【大市氏】【清水氏】【多々良氏】【大伴氏】
任那国人の末裔【豊津氏】
【その他朝鮮帰化族】
【麻田氏】【長倉氏】
【渤海帰化族】 naturalized Bohai/Parhae
【高氏】【高庭氏】
Source: http://www.myj7000.jp-biz.net/clan/03/03.htm
In grade school,Japanese kids learn about Torai-jins ( 渡来人 ) from Korea peninsula & China and also noted their contributions to Japan ( source: 史実では「中国と朝鮮半島から来た渡来系民族」と小学生でも知っている事ですが ).
* below is a photo of native Siberian,he looks very Japanese.
You are forgetting the normal human migration pattern, recorded migration only shows elites and high status people. If you have studied Japanese Kofuns then you will know how intimate relation is between Silla-Gaya to early Japanese development & people.
If you have visited Gyongsangdo (South-East province) of Korea, you will know this. the discovery of all archaeological relics in this region is identical to these relics found on southern Japan.
I'm Sakha (Yakut) and I've been studying Japanese, it's grammar is very like Sakha grammar. And there are even similarities in word formation: "a baby" in Sakha: kyhyl ogo (means "red child") like Japanese Aka-ko, Aka-chan. Also "chan" in Sakha means "small" : little bear - ehe-chan or ehe-chen, like Japanese 'kuma-chan"
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