The word 我 i know is pronounced by many Chinese language groups as either Ngo or Wo. But just out of curiosity, which of the 2 is used most Chinese dialect groups?

So far, I know in all Cantonese dialects they pronounce 我 as Ngo [or Ngoi]. In South-Western Mandarin (Hubei, Chongqing, Sichuan, Yunnan, Guizhou, and Western part of Guangxi) the also pronounce 我 as Ngo. In Wu dialect of Zhejiang they pronounce that word as Ngo as well, except that in Shanghai they pronounce it as Ngu.

So far the only Mandarin dialect that pronounces 我 as Wo is Beijing Mandarin, not sure about other types of Mandarin. [as far as i know South-western Mandarin pronounce it as Ngo].

How about other Chinese dialects ?

Taiwanese, if I'm not mistaken, pronounces it more like "wa" (short "a" sound). I don't know if that would apply to other Min nan groups in Fujian or not.

are you sure? i heard that 我 is pronounced as "Goá" in Taiwanese.

I just asked my wife (who is Taiwanese, from Tainan and her family speaks Taiwanese) and she said it was "wa". When she pronounces it sounds like the "wa" in water. It seems Goá is the way to write it, but it sounds like "wa". At least that's how her family speaks it, and everyone I've ever heard her speak the language with. That's the only experience I have with Taiwanese, so maybe some others on here can add to the discussion.

Errm... in Hokkien it is pronounced as "gua".

According to this wikipedia article, Tainan has its own variant, so maybe that's it. But I can promise you her family doesn't say it like "gua". I asked her about it and that "g" sound at the beginning of the word is something she's never heard in the language.

I'm a Taiwanese native to Hokkien (Taiwanese)

Alot of people mistaken 我 to be pronounced as "wa" in Hokkien, but the actual pronunciation should be "goa", "gua" or "ngua". Your wife probably can speak colloqual Hokkien, but she probably did not check the Hokkien dictionary. "w" does not exist in Hokkien.

Note that in Taiwanese hokkien, the 'g' is in light tone, so the "g" is often not heard when pronouncing the word, making it sound like "wa".

I have two Hokkien (minnan) dictionary: one from Taiwan and one from Xiamen. Both pronounce it as "goa" or "gua".

The Hokkien dictionary at http://solution.cs.ucla.edu/~jinbo/dzl/lookup.php pronounce 我 as "ngua" . I think adding "n" is why 'g' is often not heard, making it sound like 'wa'.

If it sounds like "wa" then it is pronounced as "wa", except it may be written as "gua"??

And "Ngo" in HongKong Cantonese is pronounced as "Oh" closer to "Wo" by young people. The sound "Ng" of Ngo is also retained in other non-Chinese language such as Korean or Vietnamese to mean 我 also. Personally, I think Mandarin "Wo" is more pleasant and easier to the ear than "Ngo" or "Ngohh" or "OHh"

so it seems a majority of Chiense actually say "Ngo" instead of "wo". South-western Mandarin consist of a huge chunk of the Mandarin speaking population + Cantonese dialects + Wu + Hakka. Hokkien seems to preserve probably the old chinese, i am guessing. So it must mean "Ngo" could have been the original pronounciation of the word 我. But according to the Baxtar's middle Chinese book, they put NgaX.

The only 2 dialects missing are Gan (spoken in Jiangxi) and Xiang (spoken in Hunan).

General zhaoyun is correct.

Hokkien language doesn't have the 'W' consonant (ie. no other hokkien words have 'w' consonant) so the 'Wa' is actually a mispronounciation.

'Gua' sound like 'Wa' because 'G' is pronounced lightly.

I propose a hypothetical experiment. Let's say we take a person, an average English speaker, one whose native tongue is English, but one who has not studied any other languages or any linguistics.

Now, say this person, let's call him Bill, wants to know how to say 我 is Hokkien/Taiwanese (I don't know what the difference is, but since I argued about Taiwanese as spoken in Tainan, let's assume that for the purpose of this hypothetical experiment).

Firs of all, if Bill asked me how to pronounce 我, I would say the word so he could hear it. Because that's what pronunciation means, the way a word sounds when it is spoken. I wouldn't point to a word in a book.

But let's say we can't speak it, all we can do is write it.

So we give Bill "goá", and "wa". We don't explain either to Bill, we just give him the words. Bill goes to a Taiwanese person and speaks both words.

And so I ask you, members of CHF, which word will be better understood by the Taiwanese person (assuming that just saying one word will do it, because, especially considering the word, and actual sentence to put it in context would be more effective)?

If Bill says "goá" then he will inevitably include the "g" sound, because he speaks English and has no reason to treat the "g" as a silent "g", such as in the word "gnat" because he knows nothing about Taiwanese and knows nothing about the system used to transliterate it into the Latin alphabet.

But if Bill says "wa", he will be understood, because he will pronounce is like the "wa" in "water", since the only other way to pronounce it phonetically is like "way", and that makes no sense given how it's spelled.

Therefore I say, 我 is pronounced "wa" in Taiwanese.

"Goá" is the way whoever came up with this system of transliteration (or romanization, whichever I don't know which one it's called) chose to write the word, given whatever linguistic rules or precepts or whatever the reason. It is supposed to let someone else know how to say the word, but unless you study the system of writing you won't pronounce is correctly. And the Taiwanese (speaking average, non-linguist) doesn't use this word, they use Chinese characters.

It seems we all agree that the "g" sound is not heard because it is lightly pronounced. In my opinion, and this is an un-academic, un-scientific opinion, but in my opinion, if it's not heard then it's not pronounced.

One final thing: I am not suggesting that "wa" is the only way it's pronounced. There are many variations to languages, especially Chinese. All I am saying is that every person who I've ever heard speak Taiwanese, including my wife (who was born there, lived there for 25 years, it was her first, native language), all pronounce it "wa". But I am not suggesting that this is the only way to pronounce it, just that it is one way that a substantial group of people pronounce it. And since many people pronounce it this way, and languages are living things, in that they change, I would say "wa" is not a mispronunciation. I also agree that "goá" is the way it is written.

I want to make it clear that I put forth this "experiment" and subsequent explanation as a non-linguist, one who has not studied Hokkien/Taiwanese. So this is all based on my impression of the language as I have heard it spoken, nothing more.

No, because there IS a g sound. It's not even silent. It's just lightly said.

Determined to get to the bottom of this, I asked my wife about it again and had her call a friend of hers (in Kentucky, not Taiwan). Her friend is originally from Yun-lin (between Chiayi and Changhua). Her friend pronounces it "goá". I listened on the phone and there really is a "g" sound. My wife's friend's husband is from Pingdong and he also pronounces it "goá".

Add to that, my wife told me when she was in university in Kaohsiung, people told her her Taiwanese sounded odd. Yet, my wife says all her family and all her friends in Taiwan pronounce it "wa", meaning no "g" sound.

Therefore, either my wife and everyone she knows in Taiwan (who speaks Taiwanese) is just pronouncing it wrong, or Tainan has it's own variant of the language.

Is there anyone on here who is from Tainan? If so, how do you say it?

i hope u do your research correctly before you post, the correct thing should be -- all this dialects you mentioned retains the "ng" initial. but it can be "nga", "ngo", "nguai" "ngu" "ngai" etc.




however here in Singapore and Malaysia, "wa" is commonly used (could be part teochew influenced)



hi JohnD, can't say for sure for tainan, but since i lived in kaohsiung for about a year, i will talk about kaohsiung (which is pretty close to tainan anyway), there are people who use "wa" and people who use "gua".... probably more using "gua" .. while "gua" is phonologically correct, "wa" is accepted because it does not impede understanding.. it is a little bit like Hong Kong, where only the self-correcting and older generation will use "ngo" instead of "oh"

As lifeguard correctly sums up my opinion below:

Phonologically correct: Gua (hokkien), Ngo (Cantonese)

Mispronounced as lazy sound: Wa (hokkien), Oh (Cantonese)

The same mispronounciation apply to that infamous vulgar word 'Wa lau' which was originally 'Gua Lan'.

I said it " ngai " in hakka both meixian and hopho variant.