The han chinese ethnicity is dominated by the yellow gene (O3).

The koreans are dominated by the brown gene (02b)

The vietnamese are dominated by the purple gene (02a).

The manchu have large proportion of yellow gene.

These 3 groups are most similar to the han chinese.

The title is misleading.

This is only Y Chromosome DNA...basically one marker of the paternal inheritance.

This says nothing about MtDNA, which only comes from the mother.

Even if you had this, all of it combined makes up about 1-2% of your total DNA.

As I explained before, this maybe more may not be accurate in tracking ancestry.

1) Men often migrated in closely related groups and took over areas they were not native to. Some time they killed off the local men or stopped them from reproducing in some other way. Some times they just intermarried into the upperclasses. Usually they took local wives and did not bring a lot of women from their group.


2) Using sex linked chromosomes is not always accurate because of the type of inter-mixture.

a) About 20-25% of African American males have European DNA markers, but no one would say that 20-25% of African Americans look European.

This happens because one European male had a child with a West African female. There son has a European Marker (say R2b1), but then he pretty much only marries West African descendant people and so do his kids, etc.


I'm African AMerican and my wife is Japanese. My wife is M*, I'm E3a.

If I have all boys, and those boys marry African American women, M* will disappear from my grandchildren and you will never know they were 1/4 Japanese by looking at sex-link DNA.


So we have to be careful what we say.

The best kind of DNA test is recombinant DNA with several hundred markers, autosomal DNA (admixture).

This is not done enough because it is still expensive, but it is much better to judge admixture in a population.

When I took an admixture test is showed that although my X Chromosomal is L2b and my Y is also West African, I'm about 10% Western European and about 2% Native American, based on my family history this is pretty accurate actually.

My Sex-Linked genetic testing would show me as 100% West - Central African in ancestry, which is false.

There's no source for the charts posted by the original post. They were created by some member from allempires.


Out of all the recent genetic studies, Xue et. al (2006) is the only study that I know of that compares East Asian male demography with haplogroup subclades. Most other studies lack the major subclades found within haplogroups. This is simply not enough information to establish genetic origins.


Haplogroup O3 is shared by all East Asians.
Out of that the O3* (M122) lineage is the original marker some 35,000 years ago. It's most common in Austronesians, southeast Asians and Koreans.
The O3e (commonly known as O3a5) M134 and M117 lineage is common in Sino-Tibetan populations. It's common in Han Chinese, Japanese and Tibetans.
The O3 (O-LINE 1) lineage is quite restricted to Hmong-Miao populations.

From Xue et al (2006)

Haplogroup O3

O3e (M134 and M117)

Han Chinese (Harbin) total : 31% (n=35)
Japanese total : 23% (n=47)
Korean total: 19% (n=68)

O3* (M122 only)

Han Chinese (Harbin) total: 25%
Japanese total: 2%
Korean total: 19%

Haplogroup C3 is the modal haplogroup of Indigenous populations of the Russian Far East. It is frequently found among Mongolians, Kazakhs, northern and southern Tungusic peoples, Koreans, Ainu.

Haplogroup C3* (M217)

Han Chinese (Harbin) total: 9%
Japanese total: 2%
Korean total: 15%

Haplogroup O2b is the modal haplogroup of Koreans, occurring in 25-50% of Koreans (varied with different studies). It is also common in western Japan (25-30%) and Ryukyuans, though not found in Ainu.

Haplogroup O2b

O2b*

Han Chinese (Harbin) total: 0%
Japanese total: 4%
Korean total: 15%

O2b1

Han Chinese (Harbin) total: 0%
Japanese total: 24%
Korean total: 15%

Here is a genetic study in 2005, done by NHA (Japanese genetics association)

http://www.kumanolife.com/History/dna.html
Biggest contributor to DNA sequence is in bold

Korean DNA sequence is made up of:
40.6% Korean
21.9% Chinese
1.6% Ainu
17.4% Okinawan
18.5% Unidentified

Japanese DNA sequence is made up of:
4.8% Japanese
24.2% Korean
25.8% Chinese
8.1% Ainu
16.1% Okinawan
21% Unidentified

Chinese DNA sequence is made up of:
60.6% Chinese
1.5% Japanese
10.6% Korean
1.5% Ainu
10.6% Okinawan
15.2% Unidentified

That is misleading and you should fully explain this.

This study was based on MtDNA only.

I watched the video for it on Youtube with my wife (native Japanese speaker) to make sure I understood it completely. This study appears to be fairly old and it is obviously bias. Direct ancestry from mother on MtDNA...which makes up very little of a person's DNA< less than 1%.

To say that a Chinese sequence is 1.5% Japanese is not intelligent as it has no real meaning and the NHK people tried to us MtDNA to determine ancestry of populations, when it is obviously heavily biased to maternal ancestry.

You can see on any chart comparing nations that Y Chromosone DNA is less diverse than MtDNAa in any given population, if we look at history closely we can see why. Men often married or procreated with any woman while they often killed off or enslaved/oppressed other men. This creates genetic bias.

There is no such thing as Chinee, Okinawaw, or Korean MtDNA.

Unless you can prove that haplogroup originated among Han Chinese, Yamato Japanese (or Ainu), Koreans, Okinawans, etc.

It appears what they are doing is saying..."well this MtDNA is much more common in Han Chinese or just in the "Chinese sample" (which may not be all Han) so it is "Chinese".

Once again, every time I see this NHK study shown it is irritating because it was very very very poorly done and it appears these reporters/producers totally misrepresented the data. There is no way you can say that Chinese have 1.5% genetic input from Japan based on MtDNA. That is impossible. What they are saying is simply they think this haplogroup is far more common in Japan, so it appears to be unique or originated there and we also found it in 1.5% of Chinese, so they have this input ofr MtDNA.

That is a leap of faith to make such a claim to begin with.

Hypothetically, what if a group of Chinese women fro Fujian had M* haplogroup and moved to the Kansai region of Japan and their decendants were successful and managed to have a lot of girls. Japan already having a much small population size so any significant migration would have a larger impact on the genetic pool, maybe these women were made concubines to wealthy Japanese men who could afford better housing and nutrician, so more of their children live than the villages where these woman came from in Fujian...where they were poor peasants.

In Fujian due to political turmoil, war, plague over the centuries this relatively small population of M* (as compared to the rest of the Mainland) suffered heavy population losses. So now M* is almost extinct in China but for 1.5% of the population, but in Japan it is now 15% of the population.

Does this mean M* has now became Japanese? Really?

We need to use a critical eye to look at these things and make sure we understand what they are saying, all sources are no good. I've caught the New YOrk Times, on more than one occassion making ridiculous claims about variuos things. Most of these folks who write this stuff are interpreting what they think scientifist are telling them or what a study says but they themselves are only jounalist not scientists.

When looking at the DNA sequences as a whole, it's better to look at autosomal/protein synthesis DNA. It reflects genetic distances, rather than just haplogroups, which have many subclades distinguishing ethnic groups anyway.

Here is the actual, detailed study. It is 12 pages long, so really it should explain everything to you. It's a Japanese study, not Korean.

cfs8.blog.daum.net/attach/15/blog/2008/10/20/03/42/48fb7f93142fd&filename=japan2.pdf

The percentages are a sum of specificity of lineages (which were further divided into subclades). Specificity means that some sub-clades are specific to one ethnic group. Hence Japanese ethnic group, at least in terms of mtdna, share more Han Chinese specific markers.

Really, if you read it through, it should make sense. In my honest opinion, this study is one of the most accurate genetic studies I've looked at for East Asians. Specificity of sub-clades is what really distinguishes ethnic groups.

I did not say it is a Korean study, I know it is Japanese, I have watched teh NHK special.

As I said it is based on MtDNA. That is heavily bias, just for the fact it only considers female ancestry and we know for a fact that female ancestry does not correspond to male ancestry. History is full of closely rlated male groups taking over areas and not bringing women from their group with them (or very few). YOu can determine ancestry of population just with MTDNA and nothing else.

As far as the subclades...I will get into that later...that is not necessarily accurate, if you are talking about highly divergent groups like Western Europeans and East Asians, sure, but Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are too closely related genetically to make such specific claims with current technology (and this study is not new, it is old, we know more about subclade relationships now than back then because we use far more markers).

Yes as I said above autosomal is far superior but also more expensive...that is why it is not used as much as Sex related haplogroups (Y and Mtdna)...which is basically "genetic ancestry on the cheap"...they are useful tools but some of these claims are over the top.

tutu:



How do you explain this?

What historical event do you know of when a massive wave of people from the Japanese islands (particularlly women) came to Mainland China in such a large number as to effect the Chinese gene pool in such a way?

My conclusion is that they did not. If you go to prehistory, it is still unlikely there would be reverse gene flow in such a large amount back to the Chinese mainland from the islands of Japan.


What is more likely is that if China = A, Japan = B, and Ancient Population = C.


That many people in A and B share a common ancestry with people from population C.

Most of the people in C ended up in present day Japan, but a smaller population continues to exist in China and Korea (my guess in Northern China and in the Korean Pennisula).


This is far different from saying "Chinese are X% Japanese". That sounds rather ridiculous.

At the time these population shift likely happened there was no China, no Japan, and no Korea, we are talking 5+ thousand years ago...maybe even 10 thousand years ago...or 15 thousand.

MtDNA also can easily dissappear from a population.


For sake of argument, imagine a woman with M* married and had all boys. ALl her sons would have her MtDNA, but none of her son's children would as they would.

So imagine a Chinese man moves to ancient Vietnam, and takes a common Northern Han MtDNA haplogroup and Y Chromosone with him.

He has no girls, or only one girl, but had 5 sons by a local woman. His son's marry local women.

Chances are the common Northern Han MtDNA haplogroup is gone.

If you just got by this MtDNA haplogroup you would say the population is now 83% Vietnamese and 17% Chinese...but the kids would consider themselves Han and the father was Han Chinese and the mother was Vietnamese.

Obviously these 6 kids would have got a lot of genes from Northern CHina that were not present in VIetnam, as they are half CHinese and half their genes come from their father (about), but MtDNA would show none of this. It would show a majority VIetnamese genetic population. LOL

This is why these studies in and of themselves are not very useful...without other information.

Here is a blood gene marker study.


Origin of the Koreans: a population genetic study.Saha N, Tay JS.
Department of Paediatrics, National University of Singapore.

A population genetic study was undertaken to investigate the origin of Koreans. Thirteen polymorphic and 7 monomorphic blood genetic markers (serum proteins and red cell enzymes) were studied in a group of 437 Koreans. Genetic distance analyses by both cluster and principal components models were performed between Koreans and eight other populations (Koreans in China, Japanese, Han Chinese, Mongolians, Zhuangs, Malays, Javanese, and Soviet Asians) on the basis of 47 alleles controlled by 15 polymorphic loci. A more detailed analysis using 65 alleles at 19 polymorphic loci was performed on six populations. Both analyses demonstrated genetic evidence of the origin of Koreans from the central Asian Mongolians. Further, the Koreans are more closely related to the Japanese and quite distant from the Chinese. The above evidence of the origin of Koreans fits well with the ethnohistoric account of the origin of Koreans and the Korean language. The minority Koreans in China also maintained their genetic identity.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1510113

Yeah this was posted before, a few times. I will suggest to admin to make a sticky post only for genetic studies...no need to keep repeating this and it will be easily referable.