when talking about long spear/pike......
my mind always have these;sarissa,yari,qiang and others.....

however,i would like to know the longest spear ever created in the history.....

happy posting ~~~ ^^

let's share the info

Not sure, but the ashigaru of Oda Nobunaga are reputed to have used nagaeyari (literally 'long spear') upto 16 metres long.

According to my sources, the Oda spears were mostly 5.6 -6.4m long.

Right, the "16" should read "6". Sorry, in a dashed hurry this morning

6 meters is almost 4 times the height of a normal guy.I wonder how did they manage to wield such a heavy spear/pike.

Same way the Swiss wielded their pikes - bunch together and stick them out in front of you to keep enemies away, or impale them if they try to attack you.

Yun, have you ever come across sources of such long polearms in Chinese use? becauese everything i've read on polearms have been 2-2.5 meters or so. However i would thought it was certainly possible the Chinese used longer spears etc... maybe i simply have not read it?

In the Sanguo Zhi, it's mentioned that Ma Chao's western Qiang soldiers used extra-long spears.

According to the Zhou Li (Rites of Zhou) chapter on craftsmen, infantry spears (mao) were 4.5m and charioteer spears were 5.4m in the Zhou and Spring and Autumn period.

By the end of the Qing, there were different schools of spear (qiang) technique. The Sha family school had spears of 5.76-7.68m, and the Yang family school had spears up to 5.12m long.

A 7m long spear was found in Qin Shihuang's burial pits: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...topic=224&st=15

Yap, had also read the japanese had used mega long spears but couldn't find the article anymore.

Was it in Ronald Knutsen's 'Japanese Spears. Polearms and Their use in Old Japan'?

I meant how they found the strength to wield such a long spear?Unless there is a counterweight somewhere to balance it out?

If you hold the spear in the middle, the rear end of the spear is the counterweight.

I hear there is a specific martial art technique to holding a heavy object like that. Is that true? ...

the spear would shake if you hit it with real kung-fu.

I think zhao yun in shu have.Almost all have the same.

anybody know who have a ironball as a weapon?

Any culture that had access to early firearms?

Or do you mean a flail or morning star?
http://www.mordor.ch/dsa-hallen/kuenste/wa...morgenstern.gif


On-topic:

Macedonian Sarissas could be as long as 21 feet, according to http://www.anistor.co.hol.gr/english/enback/e991.htm

Mediaval pikes weren't exactly short either. http://www.wgm-rastatt.de/juni2002.html has a picture.

Yup,true,but won't that effectively lessen the length of the pike by half as only half of it is facing the enemy and the purpose of a long pike is to keey the enemy from coming as near you as possible.

What is "real kung fu" these days? ... ... I wonder how heavy those spears were that the Chinese use at that time? ... One of my associates just told me that there is an internal martial art technique to hold the heavy objects (as in a sword or a spear). ... You know. ... Not a car ...

I am a Chinese history newbie. ... Is it true there was a martial art group called the Wu Tang (?) who taught their members the use of spears and swords. ... They defended their territory by making their territory to their advantage and they use spears to do that. ... I also heard that Wu Tang spear users were professional butt-kickers. ... Is there any truth to that? ...

It has been many, many years I read the three kingdoms saga, was Jiang Wei a spear user? ... Who else were spear users? ...

Yes, but it would be the same disandvantage for both parties

Anyway, holding it like http://www.wgm-rastatt.de/pikenier.gif seems much more logical, especially since the purpose of those spears was to stop cavalry charges, i.e. there would be very strong longitudinal forces. Another possibility would be that more than one person was required to hold a spear.

There's a martial art group in Canada that are into lance playing.

Spear playing group- Baijimen

This Cardinal understands that this group suppose to hold annual tournament for Lance players.

I just read in the Sanguo Zhi that the Ye 氵岁 people of central Korea had extra long spears three zhang 丈 long (about 6m or more), and it would be used by infantry with a few men holding each spear.

Presume they were using that implement as a battering ram.

Yang Hong's "Weapons in ancient China" briefly mentions an 8 metre long spear used to clear besiegers off of city walls.

The later Swiss pikeners and landsknecht had a iron ball or star at the rear end of the pike both as counter weight but also to make it sit into the ground more easily when receiving cavalry charges + it was a fairly good back up weapon when the shaft broke (Just turn it around and you have a fairly good mace).
By the way you hold a pike in one of two ways when ekspecting attack or attacking your self, if it was against cavalry then your right hand will grip the pike about 1/3 up the shaft while the left is used as a lever to push down on the pike about 1m behind the right hand, if there is a mace counterweight on the pike you can grip even further down if nessesary.
If it was infantry then you liftet the pike to shoulder lenght, using your right arm as a resting point for the shaft and pushing whit your left that would also hold the pike in head height when you attacket.
The longest spears in *common* use were by Polish lanciers in the 15' century, especially designe to combat pikener formations, they were a very thin and light shaft up too 7.5 -8 m long whit a fairly small spear point. but was never meant as anything other than a one off weapon, IE you charged and dropped the spear right after contact, after which you used especially heavy swords to chop your self throu the formation of spear points.

1) Korean cavalry spear according to Chosun sources is 4,5 meters long.
2) Mongol cavalry spear according to Qing regulation is 5,6 meters long.
3) Qing infantry spear according to records of Russian offcer Galkin (end of XIX) is 8 meters long.
4) Spears of Arabs during Crusades according to Osama ben-Munkhyz "Memoirs" reach up to 18 elbows (up to 9 meters).
5) Wei tribes of Gaojuili (Ye tribes of Koguryo) wielded spears of 3 zhang which were equal 9,6 meters.

Best regards,

Alexey.

2) Mongol cavalry spear according to Qing regulation is 5,6 meters long.
4) Spears of Arabs during Crusades according to Osama ben-Munkhyz "Memoirs" reach up to 18 elbows (up to 9 meters).

On the Mongol spears is that 5 to 6 meters or 5.6 meters?

As for the spears of the Arabs during the time of the Crusades they were normally 3-4 meters longs. It is mentioned by the crusaders about a warrior of Salah ad-Din's army named Aziz the Tall who had an extra long lance. Much longer than those of other Arab troops or even the European knights. The lance was believed to be a little more than 4 meters long, maybe 5 if that. Most spears used by infantry were approximetely 12 feet long (between 3-4 meters).

A note about the Arabs...they were known to exagerate the numbers.

Cheers

Chris

1) According to the codex "Qalqa Jirum" (1709-1782) the length of the staff should be 3 alda and 1 delim. 1 alda = 1,6 meters. 1 delim = 0,7 meters. Then we shoult take the length of spearhead and so we get the total length more than 5,6 meters.

2) Osama ben-Munkiz said thet in his time the extremely long spears were widely spread. Then he described his challenge to an enemy Arab warrior of another clan with the spear of 18 elbows (1 elbow = 0,5 meters) and following clash. It was in 1130-s.

3) I don't think that Osama exaggerated the length of eney's spear as he described that spear as extremely long - his enemy even had to pull the spear after him after the tilt.

Best regards,

Alexey.

P.S. I asked people to find materials regarding your question. Let's wait.

That is interesting about the length. I'm not familiar with Osama ben-Munkiz. Who is he and where was he from?

Cheers

Chris

Osama ben-Munkiz was an Arabian knight of Sheisar (a small state in modern Syria). He served at courts of local princes and in Egypt. When he was old and invalid as a warrior he went to famous Saladin and dwelled in his palace as a honoured veteran. He left very interesting diaries. They were found in XIX and then translated to Russian (1930-s) and French. It is very realistic book with a lot of first class descriptions of wars during Crusades (he personally took part in some battles and even was robbed by Jerusalem king when he sailed from Egypt to Syria) and wars between local Arabian princes.

Best regards,

Alexey.

Mm, that is interesting. I've never heard of him and I've done quite a bit of reading and studying on the crusades. I like to read about the Arab point of view. Do you know if this book in English. When you say Arabian knight do me a Mamluk or an Askari or a free soldier?

Thanks for your help.

cheers

Chris

Translated into English as:

Philip K. Hitti, trans., An Arab-Syrian Gentleman and Warrior in the Period of the Crusades; Memoirs of Usamah ibn-Munqidh (Kitab al i'tibar). New York, 1929.

recently reprinted:

An Arab-Syrian Gentleman and Warrior in the Period of the Crusades by Richard W. Bulliet (Foreword), Philip K. Hitti (Translator) (Paperback - May 15, 2000)

Thanks Tom.

Chris

So, the right hand was on the front of the left hand. I wounder how macedonians wielded sarissas since they have shields?

the spears longer than 2 meter are no longer call spear. we call them lance (on horse back) or pike (for foot soldier).
they are extremely affective against calvary because it is a foolish act to battle horse men in close range. (example:a 600 pounds football player and a 150 pounds football player crush each other.)
the weapon shows up in many hollywood films. you can check out braveheart and lord of ring: two towers.
i don't know much about macedonian. but i know crusade tie (more like handing) the shield on one side of their shoulder. it gives them a extra hand to hold the pole arm

According to this site here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6622/equipment.html, the sarissas of the Roman phalanx were about 20 feet long. That is approximately 6.7 metres.

Longest were probably the Macedonian sarissas-phalanx pikemen (of Alexander the Great's day), who carried 20-30 feet long pikes. The shorter Roman sarissas phalanx were latter based on this.

Nice site Johnny.

Thanks, I've found a lot of similar sites about different topics.

Intranetusa, may I ask how you know that the Macedonian sarissas were longer? According to Wikipedia, each phalangite had a sarissa that was about 18 feet long.