Hi. I've started this topic because I'm hoping to do a thesis on women martial artists in Chinese history. It's a fantastic topic, but tough finding detailed info.
My reason for doing this thesis (apart from liking martial arts movies) is that, in the course of studying martial arts, I've found a lot of evidence that women, at various times in history, wielded a lot of power, and were founders of martial arts systems and/or great exponents of martial arts abilities in China. Yet, when you look at the general state of society throughout Chinese history, women (upper-class women, I should emphasise) were extremely restricted in what they were allowed to learn and behave. So who were these women who came to such and prominence and why/how did they achieve what they did? What were their positions in society?
I've found a number of names so far, but not a lot of detailed information. If anyone has any ideas, I would be pleased to read them.
Some of the people I've found so far are:
Fu Hao aka Lady Hao (Shang/Zhou dynasty): earliest female general
Yue Nu: excellent swordfighter. Defeated Yuan Gong who fled "like a monkey" and later the martial arts style "white ape" (still practiced today) began, (falsely) claiming Yuan Gong as its founder.
Madam Lu (ca.20 B.C.-17A.D., ) leader of peasant uprising against Wang Mang
Madam Hun (b.ca 378 A.D.) military adviser - defended Xiangyang, Hubei province
Madam Xian (ca. 515-610 A.D.) general and military strategist
Princess Pingyang (ca.600-623 A.D.) a general - daughter of the first Tang emperor Li Yuan.
Madam Gongsun (ca.700 -756 A.D.) famous fencing-dancer in the Tang dynasty
Madam Yang (ca.740-783 A.D.) great military warrior at the end of the Tang dynasty
The end of Tang era, when many women fought in the feudal separation at that time
Liang Hongyu (ca.1100-1135 A.D.) general and Chinese national heroine
Qin Liangyu (1574-1648 A.D.) noted general who fought the Qing invaders at the end of the Ming Dynasty
Wang Conger (ca.1777-1798 A.D.) military leader of the White Lotus rebellion
N.B. Some of these dates may be wrong. This is preliminary only.
Martial Arts systems which were founded (as legend has it) by women:
Wing Chun (yong qun quan)
Phoenix Eye Fist (chu gar)
White Crane (ru branch)
Liu He Qiang (6 harmony spear) and Da Li Hua Qiang (Pear/plum blossom spear)- some claim that this was taken from
Yang Miaozhen (she lived around 1214), whose spear techniques became famous all over China
Tiger-crane branch of hung gar (hung jia) Some say that the crane half was contributed by the creator's wife
Any ideas or leads much appreciated!
Ge Jiexiu
:rolleyes:
Full Version: Women warriors in Chinese history
Thats very good reseatrch! :D
Thanks!
Hey, another interesting thing I hope someone can tell me about is the White Lotus Rebellion (1796 to 1804). In another area of the forum I wrote about Wang Cong'er, one of the extraordinary female leaders of the rebellion, but what's of even greater interest to me is the religious and philosophical ideas of the White Lotus society and its followers. I know it was based on Buddhist beliefs, and included in its doctrine a belief of equality between the sexes and between young and old, and of democracy....but that's about it.
Does anyone know any more about the White Lotus society and/or details of the rebellion?
Hey, another interesting thing I hope someone can tell me about is the White Lotus Rebellion (1796 to 1804). In another area of the forum I wrote about Wang Cong'er, one of the extraordinary female leaders of the rebellion, but what's of even greater interest to me is the religious and philosophical ideas of the White Lotus society and its followers. I know it was based on Buddhist beliefs, and included in its doctrine a belief of equality between the sexes and between young and old, and of democracy....but that's about it.
Does anyone know any more about the White Lotus society and/or details of the rebellion?
During the Three Kingdoms period, ZhuRong. She was in Naman campaign.
Thanx for the lead, Ghost of Han....was Zhu Rong a leader in the Naman campaign? Do you know any more about her, esp. her name in Chinese characters? If so, hopefully I can go check it out at the library here in Taipei...
Jiexiu
:P
Jiexiu
:P
祝融
She was said to be the wife of the Naman King. She was the only one who was even able to do anything effective to Zhuge Liang (she caught two of his officers), but they she was captured and a trade was made. There is a nice bio here ZhuRong.
also the people on that website will be able to anwser your quesitons much better then I can. But the bio should tell also everything there is to know. In the Three Kingdoms book the Naman are in Chapters 87 to about 91.
She was said to be the wife of the Naman King. She was the only one who was even able to do anything effective to Zhuge Liang (she caught two of his officers), but they she was captured and a trade was made. There is a nice bio here ZhuRong.
also the people on that website will be able to anwser your quesitons much better then I can. But the bio should tell also everything there is to know. In the Three Kingdoms book the Naman are in Chapters 87 to about 91.
Yep, great site, and lovely translation. Thanks heaps.
Do you know if there have been many movies made about these types of heroines (or villainesses, for that matter)? I know Michelle Yeoh starred in Wing Chun a while back, and there is a movie called Kung-Fu Mistress starring the fabulous actress who played the nanny/governess/rogue gong-fu master in Crouching Tiger (her name escapes me for the minute) but know very little about whether or not there have been any films on women in history like Zhu Rong or Wang Cong'er.
Do you know if there have been many movies made about these types of heroines (or villainesses, for that matter)? I know Michelle Yeoh starred in Wing Chun a while back, and there is a movie called Kung-Fu Mistress starring the fabulous actress who played the nanny/governess/rogue gong-fu master in Crouching Tiger (her name escapes me for the minute) but know very little about whether or not there have been any films on women in history like Zhu Rong or Wang Cong'er.
There have been quite a number of women who distinguished themselves in combat in Chinese history. Here are some more of them:
Xun Guan of the Western Jin - daughter of the Prefect of Wancheng, only 14 when she led a party to fight their way out of the city (then besieged by rebels) and seek reinforcements, thus saving her father and the rest of the garrison.
Lady Mao of the Former Qin - wife of the last Former Qin ruler, Fu Deng, a formidable horse archer. Captured by Yao Chang of the Later Qin in a sneak attack, she defied his attempt to make her his concubine and was executed.
Xie Daoyun of the Eastern Jin - a talented poet and wife of Wang Ningzhi (a son of the famous Eastern Jin calligrapher Wang Xizhi). When the city of Kuaiji, where Wang Ningzhi was Prefect, was attacked by rebels, Wang did nothing but pray to his Daoist deities for divine intervention. But Xie Daoyun led her maids to fight the rebels - sitting on a sedan chair! She was captured and while Wang Ningzhi was killed, the rebels treated her with respect and eventually released her.
Lady Pan of the Northern Wei - wife of the famous general Yang Dayan, and a feared warrior like her husband. She was a skilled horse archer and fought side by side with Dayan, earning the affectionate nickname of "General Pan". Unfortunately, after one of Yang Dayan's rare defeats (his subordinates lost their nerve and fled) he was demoted to a common soldier and sent off to garrison duty. His wife stayed in Luoyang, and was apparently unfaithful to him. When Dayan returned from that posting and found out about it, he flew into a rage and killed her.
Xun Guan of the Western Jin - daughter of the Prefect of Wancheng, only 14 when she led a party to fight their way out of the city (then besieged by rebels) and seek reinforcements, thus saving her father and the rest of the garrison.
Lady Mao of the Former Qin - wife of the last Former Qin ruler, Fu Deng, a formidable horse archer. Captured by Yao Chang of the Later Qin in a sneak attack, she defied his attempt to make her his concubine and was executed.
Xie Daoyun of the Eastern Jin - a talented poet and wife of Wang Ningzhi (a son of the famous Eastern Jin calligrapher Wang Xizhi). When the city of Kuaiji, where Wang Ningzhi was Prefect, was attacked by rebels, Wang did nothing but pray to his Daoist deities for divine intervention. But Xie Daoyun led her maids to fight the rebels - sitting on a sedan chair! She was captured and while Wang Ningzhi was killed, the rebels treated her with respect and eventually released her.
Lady Pan of the Northern Wei - wife of the famous general Yang Dayan, and a feared warrior like her husband. She was a skilled horse archer and fought side by side with Dayan, earning the affectionate nickname of "General Pan". Unfortunately, after one of Yang Dayan's rare defeats (his subordinates lost their nerve and fled) he was demoted to a common soldier and sent off to garrison duty. His wife stayed in Luoyang, and was apparently unfaithful to him. When Dayan returned from that posting and found out about it, he flew into a rage and killed her.
The 'Jade Fox' (evil governess in CTHD) character was played by Cheng Pei-Pei. She has an incredible portfolio of martial arts films, and was one of the pioneering martial-arts actresses in Hong Kong. If you ever see a photo of her from the 1960s or early 1970s you will be dazzled by her beauty. :P Having never been exposed to her work before CTHD, I was totally stunned when I saw my first photo of her from that earlier time period.
Although Mulan was only in a poem I'd say her anyways.
Yes, let's have a little discussion about Hua Mulan of the "Ballad of Mulan" 《木兰诗》, a cross-dressing female soldier as famous in China as Jeanne d'Arc is in the West. The Disney movie portrays her as fighting the Xiongnu (whom it calls Huns), in an unnamed dynasty that has armour from the Tang and a Great Wall from the Ming. But what we know of the ballad shows that it was written in the Northern Dynasties, under the Northern Wei. Which means that Mulan, if she existed, was serving a Xianbei ruler and may have been Xianbei herself!
Actually, the poem gives that fact away by referring to the emperor as the Kaghan 可汗, a steppe title that was probably first used by the Xianbei. Wan Shengnan, a Chinese historian, has proposed based on his research that the "barbarian cavalry of Yanshan" 燕山胡骑 whom Mulan fought were the Kumoxi 库莫奚, a people related to the Khitan and the Shiwei (and thus also related to the Xianbei themselves). The Northern Wei fought a ten-year war with the Kumoxi in the Yanshan area (north of Beijing, where the Great Wall is today) from 496 to 507 AD, which ended when the Northern Wei emperor Xuanwudi (Yuan Ke) agreed to open trade relations with the Kumoxi in exchange for their acknowledging vassal status. And the Ballad of Mulan does state that Mulan was on campaign for ten to twelve years.
Actually, the poem gives that fact away by referring to the emperor as the Kaghan 可汗, a steppe title that was probably first used by the Xianbei. Wan Shengnan, a Chinese historian, has proposed based on his research that the "barbarian cavalry of Yanshan" 燕山胡骑 whom Mulan fought were the Kumoxi 库莫奚, a people related to the Khitan and the Shiwei (and thus also related to the Xianbei themselves). The Northern Wei fought a ten-year war with the Kumoxi in the Yanshan area (north of Beijing, where the Great Wall is today) from 496 to 507 AD, which ended when the Northern Wei emperor Xuanwudi (Yuan Ke) agreed to open trade relations with the Kumoxi in exchange for their acknowledging vassal status. And the Ballad of Mulan does state that Mulan was on campaign for ten to twelve years.
FWIW, I'll add that there are several live-action movie projects currently in the works to tell the Mulan story. Probably the most promising one is being launched by Michelle Yeoh's production company. Supposedly, she is going to play Mulan and there is hope that Chow Yun Fat will be her costar. Hopefully, this film will materialize over the next couple of years. The last I recall it had a tentative start date of late 2004.
There was a Hong Kong TV series based on Hua Mulan a few years ago, probably riding the wave of interest after the Disney production. Mulan was played by Anita Yuen, and her husband (!), a general, was played by Chiu Mun Cheok (the guy who played Wong Fei Hung after Jet Li). The series was set in the early days of the Sui dynasty, with Mulan fighting the Tujue. I wonder in which dynasty Michelle Yeoh's film will be set?
If anyone will be able to find that out, it is Jane, the webmistress at Michelle Yeoh Web Theatre. She has what I believe to be the best fan-site about Michelle. Here is the link from that website with news and rumors about Michelle's Hua Mulan.
http://michelleyeoh.info/Movie/huamulan.html
http://michelleyeoh.info/Movie/huamulan.html
In a lot of Jet li and Jackie Chan movies I hear the name Wong Fei Hung, why is that? And does anyone have a website for the Mulan poem, either in English or the orignal in Chinese.
Here's a good site to look in for the Mulan poem: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5082/mulanfaq.html
And for Wong Fei Hung: http://www.kungfucinema.com/articles/2001-04-08-01.htm
And for Wong Fei Hung: http://www.kungfucinema.com/articles/2001-04-08-01.htm
QUOTE (Yun @ Jul 10 2004, 05:33 AM)
Actually, the poem gives that fact away by referring to the emperor as the Kaghan 可汗, a steppe title that was probably first used by the Xianbei. 
Actually, the Shi Ji was pretty explicit in stating that Kaghan was a title styled by the leader of the Xiong Nu during the Qin dynasty.
As for women warriors in Chinese history, recently there are some debate on the idenity of Mei Xi (妹喜). While tradition held that she was a concubine of Xia Jie and was for her that Jie constructed the famed 酒池肉林, some scholars now say that Mei Xi may have a general of the Xia. The mistaken idenity recorded in Shi Ji was due to the first character of the name.
The idenity of Fu Hao was also being questioned, with some scholars now argue that she was in fact a he, was thought to be a female because of the character used in the name as well.
Hmm...lets not forget the Female Yang Generals or Lore.
The Liao dynasty had a few famous female military figures too. Chengtian, the mother of Liao emperor Shengzong lead armies against the Sung in the 11th century and could field 10,000 horsemen. And her elder sister Hulian successfully pacified the fearsome Zubu barabarians of the steppe and established the fortress town of Kodun in the Orkhon valley of Mongolia.
QUOTE(Yun @ Jul 10 2004, 02:33 AM)
Yes, let's have a little discussion about Hua Mulan of the "Ballad of Mulan" 《木兰诗》, a cross-dressing female soldier as famous in China as Jeanne d'Arc is in the West. The Disney movie portrays her as fighting the Xiongnu (whom it calls Huns), in an unnamed dynasty that has armour from the Tang and a Great Wall from the Ming. But what we know of the ballad shows that it was written in the Northern Dynasties, under the Northern Wei. Which means that Mulan, if she existed, was serving a Xianbei ruler and may have been Xianbei herself!
Actually, the poem gives that fact away by referring to the emperor as the Kaghan 可汗, a steppe title that was probably first used by the Xianbei. Wan Shengnan, a Chinese historian, has proposed based on his research that the "barbarian cavalry of Yanshan" 燕山胡骑 whom Mulan fought were the Kumoxi 库莫奚, a people related to the Khitan and the Shiwei (and thus also related to the Xianbei themselves). The Northern Wei fought a ten-year war with the Kumoxi in the Yanshan area (north of Beijing, where the Great Wall is today) from 496 to 507 AD, which ended when the Northern Wei emperor Xuanwudi (Yuan Ke) agreed to open trade relations with the Kumoxi in exchange for their acknowledging vassal status. And the Ballad of Mulan does state that Mulan was on campaign for ten to twelve years.
Actually, the poem gives that fact away by referring to the emperor as the Kaghan 可汗, a steppe title that was probably first used by the Xianbei. Wan Shengnan, a Chinese historian, has proposed based on his research that the "barbarian cavalry of Yanshan" 燕山胡骑 whom Mulan fought were the Kumoxi 库莫奚, a people related to the Khitan and the Shiwei (and thus also related to the Xianbei themselves). The Northern Wei fought a ten-year war with the Kumoxi in the Yanshan area (north of Beijing, where the Great Wall is today) from 496 to 507 AD, which ended when the Northern Wei emperor Xuanwudi (Yuan Ke) agreed to open trade relations with the Kumoxi in exchange for their acknowledging vassal status. And the Ballad of Mulan does state that Mulan was on campaign for ten to twelve years.
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The pictures that I have seen of MULAN, she is using spear as a weapon. ... Was that her #1 weapon? ... I notice a lot of those female warriors uses the spear. ... How come?
QUOTE(BlueDragonMagik @ Apr 16 2005, 02:39 PM)
I notice a lot of those female warriors uses the spear. ... How come?
Male logic ... I think.
As a leader of soldiers fighting from horseback, pole-weapons would always be the weapon of choice as opposed to swords which have shorter reach. There are generals with bows, but it is rather limited and you can't lead an impressive charge while shooting arrows - kinda obstruct the best side of your face
. So basically in traditional warfare, it's always pole weapons to portray mounted soldiers/commanders.Among the various Chinese pole weapons, I suppose the slender spear was more preferred by females compared to the bulkier halberds. Spear thrusts also rely less on physical strength contests which tend to occur with halberds, poleaxes or long warhammers. Not to say that females are always less physically strong than males, but their "natural" advantages should not be squandered.
QUOTE(snowybeagle @ Apr 16 2005, 09:51 AM)
Male logic ... I think.
As a leader of soldiers fighting from horseback, pole-weapons would always be the weapon of choice as opposed to swords which have shorter reach. There are generals with bows, but it is rather limited and you can't lead an impressive charge while shooting arrows - kinda obstruct the best side of your face. So basically in traditional warfare, it's always pole weapons to portray mounted soldiers/commanders.
Among the various Chinese pole weapons, I suppose the slender spear was more preferred by females compared to the bulkier halberds. Spear thrusts also rely less on physical strength contests which tend to occur with halberds, poleaxes or long warhammers. Not to say that females are always less physically strong than males, but their "natural" advantages should not be squandered.
As a leader of soldiers fighting from horseback, pole-weapons would always be the weapon of choice as opposed to swords which have shorter reach. There are generals with bows, but it is rather limited and you can't lead an impressive charge while shooting arrows - kinda obstruct the best side of your face
. So basically in traditional warfare, it's always pole weapons to portray mounted soldiers/commanders.Among the various Chinese pole weapons, I suppose the slender spear was more preferred by females compared to the bulkier halberds. Spear thrusts also rely less on physical strength contests which tend to occur with halberds, poleaxes or long warhammers. Not to say that females are always less physically strong than males, but their "natural" advantages should not be squandered.
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I did not know you fight from horseback. ... What a stud. ...
I prefer weapons like crossbows. I like to hit them from afar. If I were a general like you, I wouldn't mind picking a halberd like a "quan dao". ... Do any of you know how to do that? ...
We better return to the note at hand, thanks for telling me about the spear. ... Guess a guy wouldn't get caught with a spear. Do any of you know know how to use the spear?
Guy wouldn't be caught with a spear? Are you kidding?
There is Zhao Zilong, the Yang Generals, Lin Chong, just to name a few.
There is Zhao Zilong, the Yang Generals, Lin Chong, just to name a few.
QUOTE(Yang Zongbao @ Apr 16 2005, 09:23 PM)
Guy wouldn't be caught with a spear? Are you kidding?
There is Zhao Zilong, the Yang Generals, Lin Chong, just to name a few.
There is Zhao Zilong, the Yang Generals, Lin Chong, just to name a few.
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You are totally right. ... I forgot about them. ... Has anyone ever trained with a spear before? ...
arent spears considered 'the king of weapons' ?
I've only read that on websites selling weapons though (the military sword was the 'marshall of weapons', and the civilian jian was the "gentleman of weapons', and the staff was 'father of weapons' I believe)
I don't think it's a "girls only" thing, more like a popular weapon overall.
I've only read that on websites selling weapons though (the military sword was the 'marshall of weapons', and the civilian jian was the "gentleman of weapons', and the staff was 'father of weapons' I believe)
I don't think it's a "girls only" thing, more like a popular weapon overall.
That's Martial Arts lore, I believe.
I would take those websites with a grain of salt, especially if you look at their stock- all Wushu Weapons, for most of them.
Wushu Weapon selling sites tend to propogate Wushu myths.
I would take those websites with a grain of salt, especially if you look at their stock- all Wushu Weapons, for most of them.
Wushu Weapon selling sites tend to propogate Wushu myths.
QUOTE(TMPikachu @ Apr 18 2005, 04:26 AM)
I don't think it's a "girls only" thing, more like a popular weapon overall.
I don't think anybody said it was, except for a jest made by BlueDragonMagik.
QUOTE(snowybeagle @ Apr 17 2005, 06:49 PM)
I don't think anybody said it was, except for a jest made by BlueDragonMagik.
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People. ... People! ... It was just a joke. ... Many years ago, I received a Water Margin playing cards set from a friend. In the card deck, it shows each of the card shows the hero{!?} with their weapons. ... A lot of the guy heros used the spears as their #1 weapon. ... I always wanted to learn how to use a spear. I think it is more than just "point, aim and shoot". ... Is there any suggestions? ...
Lets return to the main note. ... Can we name more "Woman Warriors in Chinese History"?
QUOTE(BlueDragonMagik @ Apr 18 2005, 10:48 AM)
Many years ago, I received a Water Margin playing cards set from a friend.
You have those cards ???!!!!! Wow, I think they came out in the 1980s, better keep them well.
QUOTE(snowybeagle @ Apr 17 2005, 08:14 PM)
You have those cards ???!!!!! Wow, I think they came out in the 1980s, better keep them well.
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Yep. ... I have done it. ... I believe my friend got it for me from somewhere in the San Francisco Bay Area. ... Have ya seen them before? ...
QUOTE(BlueDragonMagik @ Apr 18 2005, 02:09 PM)
Yep. ... I have done it. ... I believe my friend got it for me from somewhere in the San Francisco Bay Area. ... Have ya seen them before? ...
It was reported in the cultural section of a Singapore newspaper when it came out. I only saw some of the pictures in there.
QUOTE(snowybeagle @ Apr 17 2005, 11:15 PM)
It was reported in the cultural section of a Singapore newspaper when it came out. I only saw some of the pictures in there.
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Thanks for the insight. ... I did not know I have a winner in my boxes of stuff. ... We will start the opening bid at $ _ _ _ ...
... Just kidding! ...
QUOTE(BlueDragonMagik @ Apr 17 2005, 08:48 PM)
People. ... People! ... It was just a joke. ... Many years ago, I received a Water Margin playing cards set from a friend. In the card deck, it shows each of the card shows the hero{!?} with their weapons. ... A lot of the guy heros used the spears as their #1 weapon. ... I always wanted to learn how to use a spear. I think it is more than just "point, aim and shoot". ... Is there any suggestions? ...
Lets return to the main note. ... Can we name more "Woman Warriors in Chinese History"?
Lets return to the main note. ... Can we name more "Woman Warriors in Chinese History"?
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I saw some website selling "water Margin" action figures years ago.It had a few characters like Lu Zhishen,Lin Chong and Wu Song.
I don't know much about the spear, but regarding its overgrown brother, the pike, I remember finding an article saying that in 16th century Europe, pikemanship had become an art as complex and difficult as swordsmanship. So I expect Blue Dragon is right in saying that there is more to the spear than point, aim and shoot.
Regarding women warriors, I wanted to mention that I dearly love the movie Mulan, historical absurdities notwithstanding. Do most scholars believe that Fa Mulan was real or a poetic invention?
Regarding women warriors, I wanted to mention that I dearly love the movie Mulan, historical absurdities notwithstanding. Do most scholars believe that Fa Mulan was real or a poetic invention?
The Ballad of Hua Mulan, being a folk song, probably reflects a situation that was actually present in the Northern Wei, of some daughters entering military service on behalf of their fathers. However, Mulan herself probably did not exist. That hasn't stopped some scholars from trying to prove otherwise, of course.
btw, the more I read the ode of Mulan, the more it gives me the impression the time period is during the Northern Zhou rather than the Wei. For one, the term khaghan seem to be much more popular as time goes. And full sinization and peasant joining the army hasn't been in full development until the Zhou. Nor was the Rouran as much of a threat as the Tujue.
QUOTE(Yang Zongbao @ Apr 16 2005, 09:23 PM)
Guy wouldn't be caught with a spear? Are you kidding?
There is Zhao Zilong, the Yang Generals, Lin Chong, just to name a few.
There is Zhao Zilong, the Yang Generals, Lin Chong, just to name a few.
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YZB,
Saw a Shaw Bros movie many yrs ago.
Where the hero ["Lin Chong" (Leopard head)] demostrated a misdirectional move called ["Returned Horse Spear Thrust"] against a pursuer. Just as the opponent overpursued him, he shot a thrust at the opponent.
The outcome was obvious.
QUOTE(BlueDragonMagik @ Apr 16 2005, 10:17 AM)
I did not know you fight from horseback. ... What a stud. ...
I prefer weapons like crossbows. I like to hit them from afar. If I were a general like you, I wouldn't mind picking a halberd like a "quan dao". ... Do any of you know how to do that? ...
We better return to the note at hand, thanks for telling me about the spear. ... Guess a guy wouldn't get caught with a spear. --- --- ---
I prefer weapons like crossbows. I like to hit them from afar. If I were a general like you, I wouldn't mind picking a halberd like a "quan dao". ... Do any of you know how to do that? ...
We better return to the note at hand, thanks for telling me about the spear. ... Guess a guy wouldn't get caught with a spear. --- --- ---
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Never underestimate anyone w/ a bladed implement.
Yep.
Lin Chong is a pretty ****** guy.
The Hui Ma Qiang (回马枪) is very deadly indeed- because it catches pursuers when they least expect it.
Lin Chong is a pretty ****** guy.
The Hui Ma Qiang (回马枪) is very deadly indeed- because it catches pursuers when they least expect it.
QUOTE(Yang Zongbao @ Apr 19 2005, 07:27 PM)
Yep.
Lin Chong is a pretty ****** guy, infact, my AIM screen is named after him- xXPantherHeadXx.
The Hui Ma Qiang (回马枪) is very deadly indeed- because it catches pursuers when they least expect it. Especially arrogant ones.
Lin Chong is a pretty ****** guy, infact, my AIM screen is named after him- xXPantherHeadXx.
The Hui Ma Qiang (回马枪) is very deadly indeed- because it catches pursuers when they least expect it. Especially arrogant ones.
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YZb,
Quite agree w/ you.
My elementary martial arts research told me that move [Returning Horse Spear Thrust Hui Ma Qiang (回马枪) ] can occur from different angles of the body and different body movements at different targets.
Q: Do anyone know what's the end movement of the [Returning Horse Spear Thrust Hui Ma Qiang (回马枪) ] ?
YZb, Since you're called [xXPantherHeadXx.], presumed you're an [A1] spear player.
Anthr note: Seen still pictures of Fa Mu Lan performing a similar move while riding a horse, killing the opposition's horse. That propels the pursuer who's riding the horse to fall down. Think of the damage the pursuer would receive while riding @ a high speed toward the pursuee.
Some ppl call that move [Golden Spear Penetrate the Horse].
Good thread.
We're still not sure what exactly what Dong Fang Bu Bai is...but he's like Michael Jackson.
What species does Michael Jackson belong to? And what gender is he? Because he started as a guy too, and now we don't know what he is...
I wonder if Wacko Jacko has a powerful martial technique. :B
What species does Michael Jackson belong to? And what gender is he? Because he started as a guy too, and now we don't know what he is...
I wonder if Wacko Jacko has a powerful martial technique. :B
QUOTE(BlueDragonMagik @ Apr 18 2005, 02:29 PM)
Thanks for the insight. ... I did not know I have a winner in my boxes of stuff. ...
I found the set at an annual flea market 2 Saturdays ago in Singapore!
Been wanting to shout about it but got dragged down by other stuff.
Yay!!! I hope it's out of print, for selfish reasons.
But then again, since I bought it out of personal interest, I doubt if I'll sell it.
Two deck of cards ... including the jokers ... = 108 cards.
Too bad I don't have a good digital camera.
QUOTE(snowybeagle @ May 3 2005, 06:50 PM)
I found the set at an annual flea market 2 Saturdays ago in Singapore!
Been wanting to shout about it but got dragged down by other stuff.
Yay!!! I hope it's out of print, for selfish reasons.
But then again, since I bought it out of personal interest, I doubt if I'll sell it.
Two deck of cards ... including the jokers ... = 108 cards.
Too bad I don't have a good digital camera.
Been wanting to shout about it but got dragged down by other stuff.
Yay!!! I hope it's out of print, for selfish reasons.
But then again, since I bought it out of personal interest, I doubt if I'll sell it.
Two deck of cards ... including the jokers ... = 108 cards.
Too bad I don't have a good digital camera.
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Same here ... I don't got a good one plus I don't have the time. ... Maybe one day, one of us can scan it and put it out for the public to see. ... I wonder where in the forum is a good place to put it. ... My favorite weapon is the saber. Therefore I have a liking toward Saber fighters like Black Whirlwind. ... Say hey!? Who are your favorite 108 heroes? ...
QUOTE(Daniel @ Apr 18 2005, 07:20 AM)
I don't know much about the spear, but regarding its overgrown brother, the pike, I remember finding an article saying that in 16th century Europe, pikemanship had become an art as complex and difficult as swordsmanship. So I expect Blue Dragon is right in saying that there is more to the spear than point, aim and shoot.
Regarding women warriors, I wanted to mention that I dearly love the movie Mulan, historical absurdities notwithstanding. Do most scholars believe that Fa Mulan was real or a poetic invention?
Regarding women warriors, I wanted to mention that I dearly love the movie Mulan, historical absurdities notwithstanding. Do most scholars believe that Fa Mulan was real or a poetic invention?
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Not all spearplay is the same.
Seen somewhere where a spearplayer utilizes the spear as a straight sword (jian).
Also seen spear & sword players deployed their implement in one continuous motion of ["ready and fire"].
Presume those are the world class warriors.
QUOTE(Jiexiu @ Jul 5 2004, 04:33 AM) [snapback]2703263[/snapback]
Thanks!
Hey, another interesting thing I hope someone can tell me about is the White Lotus Rebellion (1796 to 1804). In another area of the forum I wrote about Wang Cong'er, one of the extraordinary female leaders of the rebellion, but what's of even greater interest to me is the religious and philosophical ideas of the White Lotus society and its followers. I know it was based on Buddhist beliefs, and included in its doctrine a belief of equality between the sexes and between young and old, and of democracy....but that's about it.
Does anyone know any more about the White Lotus society and/or details of the rebellion?
Hey, another interesting thing I hope someone can tell me about is the White Lotus Rebellion (1796 to 1804). In another area of the forum I wrote about Wang Cong'er, one of the extraordinary female leaders of the rebellion, but what's of even greater interest to me is the religious and philosophical ideas of the White Lotus society and its followers. I know it was based on Buddhist beliefs, and included in its doctrine a belief of equality between the sexes and between young and old, and of democracy....but that's about it.
Does anyone know any more about the White Lotus society and/or details of the rebellion?
Hey from Sweden!
Try: www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/whitelotus.htm
There's Lin Hei'er too...
In the first note you talked about Hung Garīs creator wife. Her name was Fong Wing Chun (no confusion with Yim Wing Chun, Wing Chun Kuen creator)
Thanks, Yun. Wan Shengnan's idea seems very convincing to me. Read it here for the first time. Cheers, Richard
QUOTE(Yun @ Jul 10 2004, 04:33 AM) [snapback]2920378[/snapback]
Yes, let's have a little discussion about Hua Mulan of the "Ballad of Mulan" 《木兰诗》, a cross-dressing female soldier as famous in China as Jeanne d'Arc is in the West. The Disney movie portrays her as fighting the Xiongnu (whom it calls Huns), in an unnamed dynasty that has armour from the Tang and a Great Wall from the Ming. But what we know of the ballad shows that it was written in the Northern Dynasties, under the Northern Wei. Which means that Mulan, if she existed, was serving a Xianbei ruler and may have been Xianbei herself!
Actually, the poem gives that fact away by referring to the emperor as the Kaghan 可汗, a steppe title that was probably first used by the Xianbei. Wan Shengnan, a Chinese historian, has proposed based on his research that the "barbarian cavalry of Yanshan" 燕山胡骑 whom Mulan fought were the Kumoxi 库莫奚, a people related to the Khitan and the Shiwei (and thus also related to the Xianbei themselves). The Northern Wei fought a ten-year war with the Kumoxi in the Yanshan area (north of Beijing, where the Great Wall is today) from 496 to 507 AD, which ended when the Northern Wei emperor Xuanwudi (Yuan Ke) agreed to open trade relations with the Kumoxi in exchange for their acknowledging vassal status. And the Ballad of Mulan does state that Mulan was on campaign for ten to twelve years.
Actually, the poem gives that fact away by referring to the emperor as the Kaghan 可汗, a steppe title that was probably first used by the Xianbei. Wan Shengnan, a Chinese historian, has proposed based on his research that the "barbarian cavalry of Yanshan" 燕山胡骑 whom Mulan fought were the Kumoxi 库莫奚, a people related to the Khitan and the Shiwei (and thus also related to the Xianbei themselves). The Northern Wei fought a ten-year war with the Kumoxi in the Yanshan area (north of Beijing, where the Great Wall is today) from 496 to 507 AD, which ended when the Northern Wei emperor Xuanwudi (Yuan Ke) agreed to open trade relations with the Kumoxi in exchange for their acknowledging vassal status. And the Ballad of Mulan does state that Mulan was on campaign for ten to twelve years.
Is there any truth that Wei Mulan was from the western han dynasty and died in battle?
http://www.hxtimes.com/Information/Women/Mulan.htm
I always though she was just folklore, or atleast a real person whose exploits were exaggerated and modified through the years.
http://www.hxtimes.com/Information/Women/Mulan.htm
I always though she was just folklore, or atleast a real person whose exploits were exaggerated and modified through the years.
QUOTE(Jiexiu @ Jul 4 2004, 04:52 AM)
Hi. I've started this topic because I'm hoping to do a thesis on women martial artists in Chinese history. It's a fantastic topic, but tough finding detailed info.
My reason for doing this thesis (apart from liking martial arts movies) is that, in the course of studying martial arts, I've found a lot of evidence that women, at various times in history, wielded a lot of power, and were founders of martial arts systems and/or great exponents of martial arts abilities in China. Yet, when you look at the general state of society throughout Chinese history, women (upper-class women, I should emphasise) were extremely restricted in what they were allowed to learn and behave. So who were these women who came to such and prominence and why/how did they achieve what they did? What were their positions in society?
I've found a number of names so far, but not a lot of detailed information. If anyone has any ideas, I would be pleased to read them.
Some of the people I've found so far are:
Fu Hao aka Lady Hao (Shang/Zhou dynasty): earliest female general
Yue Nu: excellent swordfighter. Defeated Yuan Gong who fled "like a monkey" and later the martial arts style "white ape" (still practiced today) began, (falsely) claiming Yuan Gong as its founder.
Madam Lu (ca.20 B.C.-17A.D., ) leader of peasant uprising against Wang Mang
Madam Hun (b.ca 378 A.D.) military adviser - defended Xiangyang, Hubei province
Madam Xian (ca. 515-610 A.D.) general and military strategist
Princess Pingyang (ca.600-623 A.D.) a general - daughter of the first Tang emperor Li Yuan.
Madam Gongsun (ca.700 -756 A.D.) famous fencing-dancer in the Tang dynasty
Madam Yang (ca.740-783 A.D.) great military warrior at the end of the Tang dynasty
The end of Tang era, when many women fought in the feudal separation at that time
Liang Hongyu (ca.1100-1135 A.D.) general and Chinese national heroine
Qin Liangyu (1574-1648 A.D.) noted general who fought the Qing invaders at the end of the Ming Dynasty
Wang Conger (ca.1777-1798 A.D.) military leader of the White Lotus rebellion
N.B. Some of these dates may be wrong. This is preliminary only.
Martial Arts systems which were founded (as legend has it) by women:
Wing Chun (yong qun quan)
Phoenix Eye Fist (chu gar)
White Crane (ru branch)
Liu He Qiang (6 harmony spear) and Da Li Hua Qiang (Pear/plum blossom spear)- some claim that this was taken from
Yang Miaozhen (she lived around 1214), whose spear techniques became famous all over China
Tiger-crane branch of hung gar (hung jia) Some say that the crane half was contributed by the creator's wife
Any ideas or leads much appreciated!
Ge Jiexiu
My reason for doing this thesis (apart from liking martial arts movies) is that, in the course of studying martial arts, I've found a lot of evidence that women, at various times in history, wielded a lot of power, and were founders of martial arts systems and/or great exponents of martial arts abilities in China. Yet, when you look at the general state of society throughout Chinese history, women (upper-class women, I should emphasise) were extremely restricted in what they were allowed to learn and behave. So who were these women who came to such and prominence and why/how did they achieve what they did? What were their positions in society?
I've found a number of names so far, but not a lot of detailed information. If anyone has any ideas, I would be pleased to read them.
Some of the people I've found so far are:
Fu Hao aka Lady Hao (Shang/Zhou dynasty): earliest female general
Yue Nu: excellent swordfighter. Defeated Yuan Gong who fled "like a monkey" and later the martial arts style "white ape" (still practiced today) began, (falsely) claiming Yuan Gong as its founder.
Madam Lu (ca.20 B.C.-17A.D., ) leader of peasant uprising against Wang Mang
Madam Hun (b.ca 378 A.D.) military adviser - defended Xiangyang, Hubei province
Madam Xian (ca. 515-610 A.D.) general and military strategist
Princess Pingyang (ca.600-623 A.D.) a general - daughter of the first Tang emperor Li Yuan.
Madam Gongsun (ca.700 -756 A.D.) famous fencing-dancer in the Tang dynasty
Madam Yang (ca.740-783 A.D.) great military warrior at the end of the Tang dynasty
The end of Tang era, when many women fought in the feudal separation at that time
Liang Hongyu (ca.1100-1135 A.D.) general and Chinese national heroine
Qin Liangyu (1574-1648 A.D.) noted general who fought the Qing invaders at the end of the Ming Dynasty
Wang Conger (ca.1777-1798 A.D.) military leader of the White Lotus rebellion
N.B. Some of these dates may be wrong. This is preliminary only.
Martial Arts systems which were founded (as legend has it) by women:
Wing Chun (yong qun quan)
Phoenix Eye Fist (chu gar)
White Crane (ru branch)
Liu He Qiang (6 harmony spear) and Da Li Hua Qiang (Pear/plum blossom spear)- some claim that this was taken from
Yang Miaozhen (she lived around 1214), whose spear techniques became famous all over China
Tiger-crane branch of hung gar (hung jia) Some say that the crane half was contributed by the creator's wife
Any ideas or leads much appreciated!
Ge Jiexiu
Yue Nu: "Yue Nu" just means a girl from the country of Yue. The legend had it that Yuan Gong was an evil old men and caused a lot of problems with the people. That is why Yue Nu came out to challenge him. After she had defeated Yuan Gong, the king of Yue asked her to be the chief military trainer of kingdom of Yue. When Yue defeated Wu, their enemy kingdom, Yue Nu retired into wildness and disappeared from history. I believe she is also the creator of Yue Nu Style of Sword Fight, but I don't know whether it was a real Martial Art style or just something invented by story tellers. Also, I think she was supposed to be between 14-18 at the time when she showed up, but I forgot where I read it. I may be wrong about the age, but she was supposed to be a young maiden. Considering girls married around 14 to 16 or so at the time, I think that was a good guess.
Also, my mother came from the same area where Yue Nu showed up (ancient kingdom of Yue or Hangzhou area in Zhejiang province). Considering the hot tempers of the women there, I could well understand why the first known female swordsperson came from there.
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