I know absolutely nothing about Chinese history. That being said, can anyone please tell me how much maile the Chinese used if any. If so, what was the weave?

The Tang learned how to make chain armor from central Asian groups. It was not very popular, being very time consuming, and their lamellar was already fine (they were also beginning to develope 'lion armor' and brigandine) I think it's use was limited to a few officers.

The weave... would've been the same as whatever was being used by the people west of China.

There is a record in the Tang Liudian of suozijia (locked chain armour) being used in the Tang, but no specimen or depiction has survived. It was said to be the best armour available, but it was probably rare. There are also records of suozijia in the Song and Ming.

Warhead says that the Tibetans used a lot more chain mail according to records, but the surviving evidence suggests that they were predominantly lamellar-armoured too. Their chain mail would have come from India.

The book 'Oriental Armour' has a picture of Chain armor from Tang times.

It had short sleeves and ran the length of about above the knees, with a belt. The sketch looks like its made of scales, but the author says that's how chain armor was portrayed in Tang drawings.

I know chain armor was used somewhat often in Japan, and I think before European contact too. Maybe it was brought by Tang...



It's said to be the best armor available? That dissapoints my pride

The Xin Tangshu records that suozikai (kai being the same as jia) was given as tribute to the Tang court by Samarkand in the early part of the Kaiyuan reign (713-741). This suggests that chain mail was imported from the Middle East via the Silk Road (Samarkand being an important city along that route).

Han Shizhong, the famous contemporary of Yue Fei, is said in his biography to have used a liansuojia (linked chain armour) that could withstand arrows. Berthold Laufer argued that this was not true mail but chains sewn on a leather foundation, but Robinson (author of Oriental Armour) believes it is true mail.

Thank you very much for your well informed responces. You have a very mature forum here. So saying there is no "Chinese Weave" per sey would be correct? I.E. The very small ammounts the had woud have been a Euro weave import. Is this correct? Secondly did they have any armours that would be Plates held together with a chain links?

chain sewn onto a leather foundation...

I personally do not believe such an armor would really exist, as it seems like a waste of time. If one is going to sew iron onto leather, there's no bother to shape them into rings.


Not really a Euro weave import, but Middle East

on chain-and-plate armor... I don't think it was ever used in China, never seen any evidence of it.

I know Japan has made armor of that type before, and maybe someone in China could've imported or aquired it, but then it's not really Chinese, still Japanese.



The author of Oriental Armour believes that the Tang never adopted chain armor fully due to time constraints (it takes alot longer than lamellar) and that the Chinese were generally not very interested in military affairs.
I can believe the former, but the latter seems... kinda biased stereotype view (considering that the Tang were known for a period of martial victories)
Or... could it be that chain was not really as good as might have been expected? This theory is mostly fueled by my desire to not think of Chinese kia as inferior to the armors of others. Like... the Romans adopted the plated segmentum over the chain armor, and said it was more protective.

Well, the authoritative 《中国古代军戎服饰》 (Ancient Chinese Armour) by Liu Yonghua cites the 《二老堂诗知》 as saying: "甲之精细者，谓之锁子甲。" (The highest quality and most meticulously made armour is called suozijia)

Thank you very much for your information.

Actaully during the Tang dynasty, it was called Huansuojia

Not according to the 唐六典. It lists the 13 types of armour as:

明光
光要
细鳞
山文
乌锤
白布
皂绢
布背
步兵
皮甲
木甲
锁子
马甲

Oh yeah, sorry.
The MING called it Huansuojia.

Pictures taken at Chinese Revolution military museum in Beijing.

Manchu Chainmail Armor.

Mail armours are very rare in China.

After the leather-armour dominated Yuan/Mongol era, armours of Eurasia took separate routes of development.

Japan moved from lamellar toward plate. Europe moved from scale toward mail, then plate. Ming-Korea-Manchu moved toward the quilted one.

Why did these different traditions develop along separate routes?

One thing for sure: after the Mongol era, leather armour suddenly fell out of favour. (there were not enough cattle?)

well, during the Mongol era...

Europe, chain was the most popular armor for those that could afford it
middle easterners were aready using mail
Mongols wore some mail, but mostly leather lamellar
In China/korea/Japan, lamellar was the most popular form. Ming and Qing used brigandine, and Japan went with less single plates, rather having a few larger ones.

I think plate developes more in Europe because of their style of warfare, which focused more on big clashes than maneuvering or other mobile actions. True, plate is not the big chunky suit that hollywood shows, but it is still alot less comfortable than a lamellar or brigandine vest, more trouble to wear for long times, etc.

There were 'light' suits of plates developed though. The Winged Hussars wore plate armor that was segmented to allow torsoe mobility, open faced helmets, and arm armor which wasn't fully encased. They were known as fast cavalry lancers.

The Mountain Pattern Scale is a pretty ingenius creation too, though we don't know much about it.

HaSY sent me this question by PM:



Yes, according to 《中国古代军戎服饰》, both chain mail and brigandine became important in the late Yuan and Ming because firearms were making the old leather lamellar less effective protection. There are specimens of Ming chain mail in museums in Dunhuang and Shanxi.

As for the Qing, chain mail was used only by the imperial guards. There is a specimen in the museum of the Qing emperors' Chengde Summer Resort.

See also these pictures of chain mail used by Korean imperial guards: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...wtopic=4475&hl=

A belated response to Wujiang's last post: There seems to be some confusion in 《中国古代军戎服饰》 about the name commonly used for chain mail in the Tang, though. The chapter on the Tang mentions that the 唐六典 gives the name suozijia 锁子甲, but the chapter on the Ming says that chain mail was known as huansuojia in the Han and Tang, and as suozijia in the Song, Yuan and Ming. Besides the contradiction, I also find very doubtful that chain mail was around in the Han.

Anyone knowing the origin(s) of the chain mail?

So far my rough reconstruction goes like this:

300 BC Celts -> Romans
200 AD Romans -> Parthians & Persians
600 AD Eastern Nomads -> Tang

Could it be that all chain mail came ultimately from one single source or was it independently invented at more than one place?