ps For Western listers still looking to buy Yang Hong's "Weapons in Ancient China". China Scientific Book Services have the newer 1999 edition available at 75 US Dollars.
http://www.hceis.com/book.asp?id=187
rgds.
Tom..
Full Version: Good collection of Chinese weapon pictures
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Aug 23 2005, 11:12 PM)
How does it heal?
[snapback]4751652[/snapback]
It is used in TCM in Qi Gong for the Meridians.
@mib
"It can be used to scratch the user's back." Not a bad idea either.
Uwe
That isnt some awful picture off an e-bay bought household fork with some bent prongs is it?
Where is that image from and when does it date from?
Provide a literature reference to its use in battle or else show me it in a text on ancient Chinese weapons.
I am rather annoyed to even see something apparently picked out of a dumpster compared to real ancient weapons.
TCM back scratchers do not cut it (I doubt that is traditional anyway). I am interested in truth behind myth.
Which general ever wielded such a weapon on a battlefield?
It looks all of 14cm in length after all.
PLease, no new age baloney.
This is a thread for ancient weapons.
Where is that image from and when does it date from?
Provide a literature reference to its use in battle or else show me it in a text on ancient Chinese weapons.
I am rather annoyed to even see something apparently picked out of a dumpster compared to real ancient weapons.
TCM back scratchers do not cut it (I doubt that is traditional anyway). I am interested in truth behind myth.
Which general ever wielded such a weapon on a battlefield?
It looks all of 14cm in length after all.
PLease, no new age baloney.
This is a thread for ancient weapons.
That backscratcher is a gift that keeps on giving .. and giving and giving.
QUOTE(Yun @ Aug 23 2005, 12:25 PM) [snapback]4751194[/snapback]
The Cheng Dong and Zhong Shaoyi book is excellent (but is available only in Chinese). I borrowed it from my university library last week for use in my Masters dissertation, and it has already answered some of my questions on weapons, including the name of this Qin-Han pole-arm weapon that looks like a partisan:
It's called a sha 铩 (only the iron head is shown in this picture, as the shaft had long rotted away).
It's called a sha 铩 (only the iron head is shown in this picture, as the shaft had long rotted away).
similiar like Tekpi (Malay) & Sai (Okinawan & Japanese) weapon...
Wow...
Great guys..
Really nice infor there with photos...
Great guys..
Really nice infor there with photos...
QUOTE
similiar like Tekpi (Malay) & Sai (Okinawan & Japanese) weapon...
Not really. The head looks similar, but the Chinese sha has a long pole attached to it, like a spear.
QUOTE(ShanXiYan @ Aug 17 2005, 07:12 PM) [snapback]4749467[/snapback]
All these pics and descriptions are from/according to the book "Ancient Chinese Weapons -- A martial artist's guide" by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming. (Let me know if I need more references to credit these pics)
Various designs of speaks and hook spears.
Figure 2-18: "Crescent Moon Shovel" (Yue Ya Chan)
Figure 2-19: "Convenient Shovel" (Fang Bian Chan)
Figure 3-28: "Willow Leaf Saber" (Liu Ye Dao)
Figure 3-29: "Goose Feather Saber" (Yan Ling Dao) Created in the Song Dynasty
Figure 3-30: "Six Ring Saber" (Liu Huan Dao)
Figure 3-31: "Waist Saber" (Yao Dao) Ming Dynasty saber
Figure 3-32: katana; see description in pic above
Figure 3-33: Zhan Ma Dao; see description two pics above
Figure 3-34: "Miao's Saber" (Miao Dao) popular during Ming Dynasty
Figure 3-35: "Hand Saber" (Shou Dao) Created in the Song Dynasty
Various designs of speaks and hook spears.
Figure 2-18: "Crescent Moon Shovel" (Yue Ya Chan)
Figure 2-19: "Convenient Shovel" (Fang Bian Chan)
Figure 3-28: "Willow Leaf Saber" (Liu Ye Dao)
Figure 3-29: "Goose Feather Saber" (Yan Ling Dao) Created in the Song Dynasty
Figure 3-30: "Six Ring Saber" (Liu Huan Dao)
Figure 3-31: "Waist Saber" (Yao Dao) Ming Dynasty saber
Figure 3-32: katana; see description in pic above
Figure 3-33: Zhan Ma Dao; see description two pics above
Figure 3-34: "Miao's Saber" (Miao Dao) popular during Ming Dynasty
Figure 3-35: "Hand Saber" (Shou Dao) Created in the Song Dynasty
Hi,
Forgive this baby with a question.
Some years ago, I bought what the shop keeper called a jade Chinese sword... obviously because of the material, it IS strictly for decorative use, I don't think a jade blade would survive like one made of bronze or other metal... however, the carving I thought was just to make it decorative. It has six rings along the top of the blade... however, it's not as long as the Liu Huan Dao (Six Ring Saber)... it looks more like the Shou Dao (Hand Saber), even the tip of the blade is more similar. My question... can jade be used in weaponry? (Other than for decoration?) And wouldn't the rings hamper penetration of the opponent? I guess I can understand the damage inflicted once in there, then pulled out, but if you need to get someone before they get you in combat, I would think it wouldn't be an efficient weapon.
Please comment.
Thanks,
Kimchee
I have seen jade swords with rings along the back before. They are tourist items so the function and balance is not worth examining.
I can't find a picture of such a sword on e-bay now, but you can find all sorts or jade swords and jade blades or hilts being sold. They are all modern and are fantasy items.
As far as the purpose of rings and such it might be better to ask the question in the martial arts forum or start a thread so somebody notices who studies later weapons.
It is not meant to make an injury anyway, or disembowel. Dao are slashing swords and you won't be thrusting a sword like that inside somebody up to the hilt. Even in thrusting swords you dont really want to get the blade stuck in the opponent.
In the early bronze thrusting swords often the last 1/3 or so of the blade was waisted/narrowed, and like with the Roman gladius it seems you only need the last several inches to make a lethal wound.
Jade was used for weapon forms from neolithic times, but these were (IMO) ritual or symbolic version of the real thing. Like many other jades considered ritual pieces they are slender and finer versions to be held by ranking individuals and not for clobbering people.
There are jade spears and some archaic jade ge (dagger axes) from Shang and Erlitou culture sites. These are also likely ritual versions of what were by then real weapons made in bronze.
Just as the real Shang items are mostly from thin sawn slabs if you have large or heavy jades then they are invariably modern, excluding the possesions of Imperial families.
I have seen some really really bizzare jade swords being sold that the new owners assured me were Zhou and argued at length, but any jade sword sold via antique dealers will be fake whether they face it or not. These 'Zhou' swords were said to be from Xian, but even at a glance one was based on an Indian Rajput sword from the 18th century, and another clearly a blade like a Kukris/Gurkha knife. They were all just fantasy pieces, with animal heads and wierd shapes.
A late dynasty dao in jade will be a modern carved 'jade', using high speed tools....and likely an imported material and in all probability a jade-like stone in the broad sense (perhaps not even nephrite).
i.e here is a massed produced fantasy type. At least 3 people on the web are selling this same sword. This version here, one seller claims, dates from the stone age.
I can't find a picture of such a sword on e-bay now, but you can find all sorts or jade swords and jade blades or hilts being sold. They are all modern and are fantasy items.
As far as the purpose of rings and such it might be better to ask the question in the martial arts forum or start a thread so somebody notices who studies later weapons.
It is not meant to make an injury anyway, or disembowel. Dao are slashing swords and you won't be thrusting a sword like that inside somebody up to the hilt. Even in thrusting swords you dont really want to get the blade stuck in the opponent.
In the early bronze thrusting swords often the last 1/3 or so of the blade was waisted/narrowed, and like with the Roman gladius it seems you only need the last several inches to make a lethal wound.
Jade was used for weapon forms from neolithic times, but these were (IMO) ritual or symbolic version of the real thing. Like many other jades considered ritual pieces they are slender and finer versions to be held by ranking individuals and not for clobbering people.
There are jade spears and some archaic jade ge (dagger axes) from Shang and Erlitou culture sites. These are also likely ritual versions of what were by then real weapons made in bronze.
Just as the real Shang items are mostly from thin sawn slabs if you have large or heavy jades then they are invariably modern, excluding the possesions of Imperial families.
I have seen some really really bizzare jade swords being sold that the new owners assured me were Zhou and argued at length, but any jade sword sold via antique dealers will be fake whether they face it or not. These 'Zhou' swords were said to be from Xian, but even at a glance one was based on an Indian Rajput sword from the 18th century, and another clearly a blade like a Kukris/Gurkha knife. They were all just fantasy pieces, with animal heads and wierd shapes.
A late dynasty dao in jade will be a modern carved 'jade', using high speed tools....and likely an imported material and in all probability a jade-like stone in the broad sense (perhaps not even nephrite).
i.e here is a massed produced fantasy type. At least 3 people on the web are selling this same sword. This version here, one seller claims, dates from the stone age.
Anyone know which dynasty has used such sword as shown below?
QUOTE(Kenneth @ Dec 17 2006, 07:07 PM) [snapback]4867976[/snapback]
I have seen jade swords with rings along the back before. They are tourist items so the function and balance is not worth examining.
I can't find a picture of such a sword on e-bay now, but you can find all sorts or jade swords and jade blades or hilts being sold. They are all modern and are fantasy items.
As far as the purpose of rings and such it might be better to ask the question in the martial arts forum or start a thread so somebody notices who studies later weapons.
It is not meant to make an injury anyway, or disembowel. Dao are slashing swords and you won't be thrusting a sword like that inside somebody up to the hilt. Even in thrusting swords you dont really want to get the blade stuck in the opponent.
In the early bronze thrusting swords often the last 1/3 or so of the blade was waisted/narrowed, and like with the Roman gladius it seems you only need the last several inches to make a lethal wound.
Jade was used for weapon forms from neolithic times, but these were (IMO) ritual or symbolic version of the real thing. Like many other jades considered ritual pieces they are slender and finer versions to be held by ranking individuals and not for clobbering people.
There are jade spears and some archaic jade ge (dagger axes) from Shang and Erlitou culture sites. These are also likely ritual versions of what were by then real weapons made in bronze.
Just as the real Shang items are mostly from thin sawn slabs if you have large or heavy jades then they are invariably modern, excluding the possesions of Imperial families.
I have seen some really really bizzare jade swords being sold that the new owners assured me were Zhou and argued at length, but any jade sword sold via antique dealers will be fake whether they face it or not. These 'Zhou' swords were said to be from Xian, but even at a glance one was based on an Indian Rajput sword from the 18th century, and another clearly a blade like a Kukris/Gurkha knife. They were all just fantasy pieces, with animal heads and wierd shapes.
A late dynasty dao in jade will be a modern carved 'jade', using high speed tools....and likely an imported material and in all probability a jade-like stone in the broad sense (perhaps not even nephrite).
i.e here is a massed produced fantasy type. At least 3 people on the web are selling this same sword. This version here, one seller claims, dates from the stone age.
I can't find a picture of such a sword on e-bay now, but you can find all sorts or jade swords and jade blades or hilts being sold. They are all modern and are fantasy items.
As far as the purpose of rings and such it might be better to ask the question in the martial arts forum or start a thread so somebody notices who studies later weapons.
It is not meant to make an injury anyway, or disembowel. Dao are slashing swords and you won't be thrusting a sword like that inside somebody up to the hilt. Even in thrusting swords you dont really want to get the blade stuck in the opponent.
In the early bronze thrusting swords often the last 1/3 or so of the blade was waisted/narrowed, and like with the Roman gladius it seems you only need the last several inches to make a lethal wound.
Jade was used for weapon forms from neolithic times, but these were (IMO) ritual or symbolic version of the real thing. Like many other jades considered ritual pieces they are slender and finer versions to be held by ranking individuals and not for clobbering people.
There are jade spears and some archaic jade ge (dagger axes) from Shang and Erlitou culture sites. These are also likely ritual versions of what were by then real weapons made in bronze.
Just as the real Shang items are mostly from thin sawn slabs if you have large or heavy jades then they are invariably modern, excluding the possesions of Imperial families.
I have seen some really really bizzare jade swords being sold that the new owners assured me were Zhou and argued at length, but any jade sword sold via antique dealers will be fake whether they face it or not. These 'Zhou' swords were said to be from Xian, but even at a glance one was based on an Indian Rajput sword from the 18th century, and another clearly a blade like a Kukris/Gurkha knife. They were all just fantasy pieces, with animal heads and wierd shapes.
A late dynasty dao in jade will be a modern carved 'jade', using high speed tools....and likely an imported material and in all probability a jade-like stone in the broad sense (perhaps not even nephrite).
i.e here is a massed produced fantasy type. At least 3 people on the web are selling this same sword. This version here, one seller claims, dates from the stone age.
Thank you, Kenneth, for your very interesting explanation. But, I have to admit, it is quite an aesthetic piece. That's the only reason why I bought it. But I often wondered if it had function.
Thanks again!!
Kimchee
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