Guys, some links seem to be broken. Is it the same for you?

Mok

True enough. But I think it is doubly cool that so many other peoples love our history and culture.

I'd recommend the following book:

Revolution and It's Past by Dr. R. Keith Schoppa

Dr. Schoppa is an expert on Chinese history and his writing style is extremely informative and very easy to understand. I used his book back in college when I was studying and still look at it today as a great reference.

William De Bary's two books, Sources of Chinese Tradition Vol. I and Vol II are excellent for beginners and advanced learners. In these volumes, De Bary uses translated primary sources and his commentaries to illustrate a thorough, yet reader friendly, history of China. IMO, a must have for all students of Chinese history.

A few recommendations:

"Daily Life in China on the Eve of the Mongol Invasion", by Jacques Gernet. Full of fascinating details, masterfully written, the best of the "daily life in ancient China" books I've read.

"Everyday Life in Early Imperial China", by Michael Loewe. The Han Dynasty. Together with Gernet on the Song Dynasty and Charles Benn, "China's Golden Age: Everyday Life in the Tang Dynasty", makes a nice trilogy on daily life in imperial China.

"What Life was like in the Land of the Dragon". On the Song Dynasty, from Time-Life. Well worth buying for the pictures alone!

"Ancient China", by Edward Schafer. Time-Life Books. Dr. Schafer was an artist with words. This wonderful introduction to ancient Chinese history and culture is a literary masterpiece. The historian as master storyteller. This little book was my introduction to Chinese history over 35 years ago, and it remains my favorite book on the subject. Magical!

I believe that all these books are out of print, but they can easily be found on amazon, addall.com or bookfinder.com.

Just found a great book for beginners and anyone who wants quick clear referenance to the list of Chinese Emperors.

Chronicle of The Chinese Emperors, The Reign-by-Reign Record of The Rulers of Imperial China, by Ann Paludan, Thames & Hudson publishing (ISBN 0-500-05090-2)

It is laid out really well. Each Emperor (a portrait if they have one), name in Chinese, how long they ruled, a bio of them and their reign all in order, a continuing timeline on every page of the book to help you know where you are at. It's really nice and simple.

Please do! We could certainly use one. Sometimes I wonder if the volume on the Age of Division is ever going to be published in the Cambridge History of China series.

One other standard work in English on the period is: "Medieval Chinese Society and the Local 'Community'", by Michio Tanigawa. Very hard to find now, however.

Here is a very good bibliography of books and articles on the Period of Division in western languages:

http://www.earlymedievalchinagroup.org/wjbib.htm

It has been compiled by the Early Medieval China Study Group. They also publish a scholarly journal. This is their website, for anyone interested:

http://www.earlymedievalchinagroup.org/

That book is not recommended.. according to Yun, it has lots of fatual inaccuracy and error in translation.

Check out Yun's comment at
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...t&p=4697806

Well, that's depressing, I already bought the thing. It was a quick decision when I didn't have time to think about it and a place that I didn't go to often enough. Oh well,

Wow, what a great thread! I am by no means a complete beginner but thanks for listing those books, it is always interesting to read other historians opinions on events.

I wonder if there are any books on the Mongol Empire? Even though, I have several books on it but...one can never have too many books. And it is not chinese but the Mongol Empire did cover China so it should be acceptable for this thread, right?

Regards,
Annallon

I'll see what books I can dig up about the Mongols and the Mongolian Empire.

Cheers,

Mok

Thanks, ImperialMarshalMok.

I wonder what is everyone's opinion about 1421: How China Discovered the World by Gavin Menzies. It is quite a speculative book but he does make some convincing arguments about the evidence of China having arrived there 70 or so years before Columbus did. Many of the things that he points out does seem believable but it may be nothing more than a coincidence.


regards,
Annallon

Gavin Menzies has been torn to pieces among the academic circles. His books is filled with far fetched guesses and speculations. There is no evidence of China ever rounding the cape of good hope.

Oh, that. We've had not a few threads on Gavin Menzies and his book. Let's see if I can dig them out.

My personal opinion is that Menzies should go do his research...which he obviously did not, or he wouldn't have come up with such fallacies.

Right, here's one...and quite a few pages long, too.

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=298

Hah, thanks for that link. Thank goodness I didn't completely agree with Gavin Menzies. It did seem a bit too far-fetched and too much assumptons going on. It would've been cool though if China found it before Columbus did!

Try this book : Genghis Khan and the making of the modern world. By Jack Weatherford.

Go to Amazon.com and read some user reviews on this book.

---

Mongol campaign setup Europe for scientific revolution/enlightment and exploration of new world.
Mongols changed European thinking and their need for all things from Cathay ( China ) drove Europeans to explore new route to far east.

In China after Yuan(mongol) empire collapse, Ming was established. Menzies book is based on Ming era. Historians think Ming was an introverted kingdom. If Ming made efforts to reach out and wanted to be a greater entity, it could have surpassed Europe by far.

Oh, I wouldn't disagree on that.

Btw, Annallon, lovely profile pic. I have that graphic too somewhere...in fact I was thinking of tattooing it on my back or shoulder, but I was ultimately dissuaded from it.

Outrageous! How did you let them persuade you?! Hmm, I also would want it as a body image but I probably won't as I don't have very high pain tolerance.

Ah well. Conformity is a powerful tool.

I would say it is because I am in a staid profession (banking) that I have to maintain a clean, professional image, but that would be rot.

And, the fact that one's folks think tattooing to be the ultimate form of rebellion and devilry does not help matters one bit.

So, a rock and a hard place...

Hi

Dec. 8. 2004 is a long long time ago, but I just today came upon your old posting...........if you have not already found many great translation, my favorite classic is THE COMPLETE WORKS OF HAN FEI TZU, volumes 1 and 2. by W. K. Liao. There are also paperbacks on Han Fei Tzu. I quote from his works quit often.

Good luck

How strict. Keeping a clean professional image should have nothing to do with tattoos, they're not going to see it if you wear t-shirts will they? And you dont have to tell folks you've got a tattoo..its meant to be for you, not to show off Isnt taking drugs the ultimate form of rebellion, not getting a tattoo? I guess things must be quite different over there.

Hmm... In the past, when Singapore was a young nation struggling to get on her feet, gangs and secret societies (Chinese triads) were plentiful, and tattoos were their defining mark. So, tattoos have never really been considered a form of art here, but instead represents hooliganism and gangsterism.

However, with Singapore's modernisation (Westernisation), more folks started to view tattoos as a form of art. But the original association of tattoos with gangs/triads is still strong, and no child from a "decent" home would be allowed to even think of getting a tattoo. And let me assure you, I come from a very "decent" home.

im looking for a book that talks about the san zi jing any ideas?

I bow in respect. Decency is under-rated these days. My personal taste is that a tattoo is like graffiti over a work of art. (Especially on women) However I am an old man so I'm rather dated as my graduate student told me this morning. I suspect a lot of that response is my upbringing.

Many westerners still find tattoos either low class and unattractive. It's really culturally dependent although sub culture might be a better word. Different American sub-cultures respond differently due to background and religion. In my faith for example, it's considered blasphemous but even that varies with national culture. I grew up with the idea only criminals, outcasts, and gypsies have them. Other backgrounds are different. In the US, among certain groups of Hispanics, they are fine yet others respond as did Ms. Mok. So it depends. Popular culture has definitely accepted them.

As to the rebellion part, 40% of the kids on campus seem to have a tattoo? How rebellious is that? Similarly with drugs. About half of any given campus probably has tried them. Kinda like in my youth, the long hair was "different." Always stuck me as odd that everyone was different the same way. (BTW Annallon, A good chunk of the tattoos I see are not in areas normally covered in the US. Hands, wrists, ankles, back. Of them, only the back is covered in business dress).

Hi technogypsy,

"Decency" can also be a form of hypocrisy, I've found. Maybe that's why I went through my own phase of rebelliousness.

Personally, despite my upbringing, I really couldn't care less if someone chooses to inflict a rather painful form of body art upon themselves. It's their body and their money after all. Nor would I jump to the conclusion that, if they look Asian, they must have triad associations. The world is constantly evolving, and with it cultural and psychological associations.

Mok

Hello sir,

I've seen some very tastefully-designed tattoos adorning those "works of art" as you call them. While I do detest anything OTT (over the top) which is more often than not the case with tattoos, I think that a discreet tattoo on the back, shoulder, small of the back, wrist, ankle or arm is quite ok.

If I could do so without causing several apoplexies, I would get a tribal or barbed-wire design around my right upper arm and maybe the Chinese character for Tiger (Fu) on my left deltoid.

Mok

I realize that I know next to nothing about Taiwan's history.

Could anyone recommend a good, comprehensive Taiwanese history book (something like Fairbank's China: A New History) and/or a good modern history (something like Spence's In Search of Modern China)?

Any other Taiwan related recommendations are also welcome.

Are either Taiwan: A New History by Murray A. Rubinstein or Forbidden Nation: A History of Taiwan by Jonathan Manthorpe recommended readings?

Dear all,
I'm a junior researcher for Chinese history. From next year I will required to teach Chinese history.
First semester I will teach history from prehistoric time to end of Ming dynasty and the second semester I will teach From Qing to approximately 1989.
Can you suggest me any good ideas for general textbooks which you think is the best to give students for each semester so they can read as a general introduction for every course.

Best regards

The books used in my college level courses mirror the same time periods you are looking to teach are the following:

prehistoric - 1600 (ends with Ming):
Valerie Hansen's The Open Empire: A History of China to 1600 (W. W. Norton & Company, 2000)

1600 - 1989 (ming/Qing to ccp):
John D. Spence's The Search for Modern China

Other books to supplement:
John E. Wills, Jr.'s, Mountain of Fame: Portraits in Chinese History
Patricia Buckley Ebrey's, The Cambridge Illustrated History of China


There were some others that were more specialized or focused on one event, such as the sorcery scare of 1768 during the Qianlong period and another i recall was about the Shang Dynasty and the oracle bone inscriptions. Also, a few fiction novels, i think wild swans and Ba Chin's Family.

If you're just looking for nothing event specific, then Spence, Ebrey, and Hansen's books should do.

I would add these two to l0ckx's recommendations:

William De Bary's two books, Sources of Chinese Tradition Vol. I and Vol II are excellent for beginners and advanced learners. De Bary uses translated primary sources and his commentaries to walk readers through pre-history to the Ming (vol. 1) and the Qing to the late 20th century (vol. 2). There are also many used volumes out there, so they should not cost your students too much money.

Note: Topics Merged

I wonder if there is a free-reading place? Today is my first day login.

I have an eclectic collection of books, both translated or written in English. Using the Forum Search, neither of these came up, so I hope it's not a repeat posting. I list these books because I think they are valuable in gaining a wider understanding of the
cultural environment of Chinese History, but they are not specific histories. These two books just happen to be in the haphazard pile on my desk right now! I'll try to be more organised one of these days and post some lists of more defined time periods. Hope this is of interest and happy reading!


The Secret History of the Mongols
- An adaptation by Paul Kahn of the Francis Cleaves translation.
(This is much more readable compared to the Cleaves translation. The book is in a new printing and can be found on sites such as Amazon, but mine is the first edition from 1984. The text is in the form of a prose poem with lists and charts of the protagonists and family trees which I assure you you will need!).

Stories from a Ming Collection - The Art of the Story Teller
- Translated by Cyril Birch / Grove Press 1994, still in print.
(Six short stories from the 17th century, collected by Feng Meng Lung)

This is a very late reply to your question, but I hope you are still around. It was Yun who posted this link earlier in this thread :

http://www.east-asian-history.net/textbook...China/index.htm

It is an online textbook and an excellent overview of Chinese History.

More books I'd like to share, again more of a generalist rather than specific history in nature. They are still in print and often available used.

The Death of Woman Wang
- Jonathan Spence / Penguin Books, 1979, paperback.
(A fictional but historically based account of the life of a woman in the early years of the Qing. Much to learn about society and social pressures of the period from this little book)

Traditional Chinese Stories - Themes and Variations
- Edited by y.W. Ma and Joseph Lau / Cheng & Tsui publ., 1986
(A substantial paperback book unfortunately at an equally substantial price. Sixty-one stories spanning the period from the Han to Republican.

Hung Lou Meng (Dream of the Red Chamber or Story of the Stone)
- The David Hawkes 5-volume translation is probably the best (penguin Books).
- The translation by Florence and Isabel McHugh of the translation by Franz Kuhn (my copy is pub. by Pantheon Books) is easier to read if you can find it, but still a weighty tome.
- The translation by Chi-Chen Wang (Anchor Books, 1958, paperback)) is much shorter and still in print.
- For forumites in the U.S., you can race through the Hung Lou Meng in less than a hundred pages with Cliffs Notes! Look up their website, you can buy the printed book(let) or in this internet age, a PDF version. When I saw this years ago, $4.50 flew out of my pocket in a great laugh!

I've read a few recent pages of this thread and I have yet to hear this book mentioned but if it has been, sorry.

I suggest "The Good Earth", it's truly an experience.

I have had the fortune of attending a lecture by Pamela Kyle Crossley today, and her major contribution to Chinese history should not be ignored:

A Translucent Mirror: History and Identity in Qing Imperial Ideology
Pamela Kyle Crossley
(University of California Press, 2002 1st Edition)
On Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Translucent-Mirror-I...5241&sr=1-2



Amazon.com Product Description: Pamela Kyle Crossley traces the ways in which a large, early modern empire of Eurasia, the Qing (1636-1912), incorporated neighboring, but disparate, political traditions into a new style of emperorship. Drawing on a wide variety of primary sources, including Manchu, Korean, and Chinese archival materials, Crossley argues that distortions introduced in seventeenth- and eighteenth-century historical records have blinded scholars to the actual course of events in the early years of the dynasty. This groundbreaking study examines the relationship between the increasingly abstract ideology of the centralizing emperorship of the Qing and the establishment of concepts of identity in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, before the advent of nationalism in China.

Hello all, to anyone who has read Comrades: The Rise and Fall of World Communism, are the parts concerning the People's Republic and Mao factually sound? I enjoyed the book, but it was written by a former British Conservative MP named Robert Harvey so it might have a tinge of bias