QUOTE(caocao74 @ May 29 2005, 05:09 PM) [snapback]4725164[/snapback]
Regarding Japan, this link may be of assistance;
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html
^The guy who made this website, Effingham, also known as "Anthony J Bryant", yes the author of the Osprey books, denies the Nanking massacre.
He claims that the Chinese massacred their own people in Nanking. Check out his post here...
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/vie...=chinese#260971
QUOTE
Frankly, ********. The population of Nanking as of the Japanese occupation was less than 200,000, and it was falling. The Japanese army was approaching, and people had been fleeing the city for weeks.
How could the Japanese have killed three times more people than were there?
Frankly, there've been a lot of lies and hype told about Nanking. For one thing, most of the photos you see in books documenting Nanking are years older than the attack, and often actually show Chinese warlord milita dealing with rivals. Another whole pile of photos suffer from cropping to remove the innocent part of the information (e.g., the famous "Japanese soldiers rounding up women," which is actually a cropped scene of a detachment of Japanese soldiers guarding a group of people -- men, women, and children -- crossing a bridge in a town that was occupied by the Japanese and under threat of attack by ousted warlords). Yet another problem with much of the photos -- take a look. They're wearing shorts and short sleeves. Nanking was occupied in November and December -- the Japanese troops were wearing winter gear. A lot of the photos also show bodies of Chinese soldiers lying in parts of town the Japanese hadn't reached -- notably the far gate. The Chinese army was firing on its own people for retreating.
Another factor is that many of the "civilian" casualties were actually soldiers who had discarded their uniforms and contined to harrass the Japanese troops. This is a violation of the Geneva Accord, and any one caught in that mode was subject to the obvious punishment of execution.
Yet another point: All (note: all) of the remaining population of Nanking was rounded up into a few block zone called "the International Safety Zone" which was governed/run by Germans and Americans. They were officially recognized by the occupying forces, and regularly reported to them. Their entire record, both from their own side and from the Japanese side, still exists, and has been published. Among all their correspondence/reporting to the Japanese authorities, only a handful of complaints of mistreatment exist. There is no indignation, no recrimination, no accusations of wholesale slaughter or rape.
The next year, both Mao Zedong in the north and Chiang Kaishek in the south made major political speeches to gain support for the war against the Japanese, and neither one said a word about Nanking. Do you think they would have been silent about such a PR coup as a massacre in a Chinese city? The Chinese Yearbook published that year, the next, and in subsequent years -- a document which recounted all the noteworthy events in the country -- make no mention of Nanking beyond the fact that the city was taken.
While I do believe that many people were killed in Nanking, I think the whole "massacre" thing is a product of post-War hyperbole and hysteria. And a lot of the blame is Ms. Chan's, for that really poorly researched and falsehood-laden (she knowingly used false photos) book.
Effingham (who used to believe in the "Nanking Massacre" until he started doing research into it)
How could the Japanese have killed three times more people than were there?
Frankly, there've been a lot of lies and hype told about Nanking. For one thing, most of the photos you see in books documenting Nanking are years older than the attack, and often actually show Chinese warlord milita dealing with rivals. Another whole pile of photos suffer from cropping to remove the innocent part of the information (e.g., the famous "Japanese soldiers rounding up women," which is actually a cropped scene of a detachment of Japanese soldiers guarding a group of people -- men, women, and children -- crossing a bridge in a town that was occupied by the Japanese and under threat of attack by ousted warlords). Yet another problem with much of the photos -- take a look. They're wearing shorts and short sleeves. Nanking was occupied in November and December -- the Japanese troops were wearing winter gear. A lot of the photos also show bodies of Chinese soldiers lying in parts of town the Japanese hadn't reached -- notably the far gate. The Chinese army was firing on its own people for retreating.
Another factor is that many of the "civilian" casualties were actually soldiers who had discarded their uniforms and contined to harrass the Japanese troops. This is a violation of the Geneva Accord, and any one caught in that mode was subject to the obvious punishment of execution.
Yet another point: All (note: all) of the remaining population of Nanking was rounded up into a few block zone called "the International Safety Zone" which was governed/run by Germans and Americans. They were officially recognized by the occupying forces, and regularly reported to them. Their entire record, both from their own side and from the Japanese side, still exists, and has been published. Among all their correspondence/reporting to the Japanese authorities, only a handful of complaints of mistreatment exist. There is no indignation, no recrimination, no accusations of wholesale slaughter or rape.
The next year, both Mao Zedong in the north and Chiang Kaishek in the south made major political speeches to gain support for the war against the Japanese, and neither one said a word about Nanking. Do you think they would have been silent about such a PR coup as a massacre in a Chinese city? The Chinese Yearbook published that year, the next, and in subsequent years -- a document which recounted all the noteworthy events in the country -- make no mention of Nanking beyond the fact that the city was taken.
While I do believe that many people were killed in Nanking, I think the whole "massacre" thing is a product of post-War hyperbole and hysteria. And a lot of the blame is Ms. Chan's, for that really poorly researched and falsehood-laden (she knowingly used false photos) book.
Effingham (who used to believe in the "Nanking Massacre" until he started doing research into it)
The funny thing is, their are HUNDREDS of foreign accounts recording the atrocities committed by the Japanese. I'm boycotting this guys site for the very reason, and I'm about to have a book bonfire...
