In chinese history text book, the Japanese pirates that raided the coast of China during late Ming Dynasty period were called "Wo Kou 倭寇" in chinese. "Wo" means short, while "Kou" means pirate or robber. In short, Wo Kou in chinese means "short pirates" and used to refer to Japanese pirates at that time.

Now, it seems to be a common term used in chinese history text without any form of derogatory connotation. But to Japanese, it's like referring them as 'short pirate'..and would seem to be insulting.

Do you find 'wo kou' insulting and this term should be changed in chinese history text? Or do you find it ok?

I believe 70% of the 倭寇 "dwarf pirates" were native Zhejiangers and Fujianese.

My first reaction to your question is, so we have to be polite to criminals now?

On second thought, would the rest of the people of Japan, who got nothing to do with the Japanese pirates who raided the coast of Ming Dynasty China, be insulted the Japanese pirates were referred to "dwarf bandits"?

There is really a fine line between political correctness and misunderstanding.

Not really trying to confuse things further, but would anyone familiar with the Japanese language and culture tell whether the word gaijin ever has/had derogatory connotations? The word by itself seems quite innocent, I tell you .

What is Gaijin?

See Gaijin: good or bad?

Or better still, if caocao74 cares to enlighten us with his first-hand experience ... hint hint

OK, it's 外人.

'Wokou' is a term that was used in history (whether fairly or not) to refer to a group of people, and should be recognised as such. But modern analyses would probably be more accurate if they used the term 'haidao jituan' (pirate organisations) or 'zousi jituan' (smuggling organisations), to convey the multi-ethnic composition of the 'wokou' groups. These groups did have Japanese ronin members and use Japanese weapons, but also included many Fujian and Zhejiang natives and were often financed by merchants and literati from even further inland.

Academics aside, the term 'wokou' should not now be bandied around to incite hatred and anger towards the Japanese. Indeed, in the recent textbook furore, there were Japanese who argued that PRC textbooks still refer to the Imperial Japanese troops as 'rikou' (Japanese bandits), thus refusing to give them the status of an enemy state army. That's about as bad as if the ROC textbooks still referred to Red Army troops as 'gongfei' (Communist bandits).

Even if they were criminals, i don't think it is suddenly ok to insult them with derogatory terms.

This Ming Dynasty term wokou 倭寇 is reminiscent of what the Japanese called themselves... the people of "wa" or 和. It is highly likely that the Japanese had appropriated this derogatory term and altered its character from 倭 (which means short) to the homophone 和 (which means peaceful).
As I have mentioned the 音読み (onyomi) the (correct me if I am wrong) the Japanized interpretation of the Chinese way of pronouncing kanji is the same- both 倭 and 和 are pronounced "wa."

The 訓読み (kunyomi), or the Japanese way of reading 倭 is "Yamato." Yamato is also the name for the first Japanese state created in Nara which is rendered in the characters 大和 (the land of Great Peace? maybe its the japanese equivalent of 太平?)

-Didn't the Korean call the Japanese pirates waejok? My shot at Hancha would be 倭族 (JP wazoku)　or 倭賊 (Jp wazoku). Maybe someone could help me?

Also to weigh in on the whether the use of Shina (支那）is derogatory or not.
(Its nice to know that my computer didn't recognize the characters for "shina" when I typed it!... my computer is not racist!) Apparently The use of the term shina 支那 began in the mid Tokugawa period and ended with the closing of the Second World War. In the post war period... the Characters 支那 are no longer used, but the word itself is used and rendered in katakana (the standard script for rendering foreign words) as ｼﾅ.

I guess all this comes to show that the Japanese were very conscious of the way they were represented in text, and also the manner in which the cultural "other" was represented by them. And it seems as if this concern exists up till the present day.

Lastly, why did the use of shina　支那 appear in the mid Tokugawa period? My guess is that it was during the time when Qing China was becoming destabilized by internal unrest in its Western and Northern border regions, and also when effects of population pressures were beginning to warp the social fabric of China.
My guess is that the fall of the ethnic 'Han' Ming Dynasty and the troubles that the Manchu Qing Dynasty experienced forced japanese intellectuals to reconsider widely held notions in Japan concerning China's political and cultural superiority.

I am sure there is much much more to these issues though...

Yeah. 和 is just a homophone substitute for 倭.
Using 和 makes sense since even hiragana wa comes from this character.

Strangely, the Japanese don't find 倭 nearly as derogatory as Chinese with 支那, even though its implications is far more direct.

Actually, according to the Xin Tangshu as soon as the Japanese knew enough Chinese to grasp the derogatory nature of 倭, they asked to be known from then on by the new name of Riben (Nihon). While the Xin Tangshu listed the Japanese as Riben and not Wo, later Chinese dynasties tended not to be so respectful.

Oh, I meant modern Japanese usage. The terms 倭 and 倭人 are today still often used to refer to Yamato period Japan in Japan.

日本 Nippon's origins is still not very certain right? Some are still saying that it was the name the Chinese court assigned to Japan, much like 朝鲜. But the style of the name 日本 certainly fits the Japanese mythology and aesthetic.

Hmm in some texts I saw Japan as 日の本. Maybe it's the name of their choice?

Why is the term 'wokou' often referred to the pirates of the chinese coast?

No offense, but you need to use the "search" option at the top because I know there is already a thread about this. There is no reason to bombard the forum with questions that have already been answered in other threads.

The phrase "wokou" (倭寇) refers to the Japanese pirates who harassed the coast of the Ming Dynasty. "Wo" refers to the Japanese while "kou" means enemy or bandit according to Wikipedia.

ghostexorcist, im still new 2 this blogging stuff so i shall thank u for ur 'guidance'.. and polar_zen, thanks for that brief answer, which ive been looking for

Topics merged and the best way to search CHF is by using google or another search engine. You can type your query along with "site:chinahistoryforum.com" to get the best results, i.e. type "wokuo site:chinahistoryforum.com" into the google search bar.