Those of you who have read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms will remember Sun Jian fishing out the Imperial Jade Seal (Chuanguo Yuxi 传国玉玺) from a well after Luoyang was abandoned by Dong Zhuo. To add greater flavour to the story, a palace maid had apparently drowned herself by tying it to her neck (it's very large for a seal, as befitting its imperial status). Sun Jian thought that having the seal gave him the mandate to be emperor, and when Yuan Shu later got his hands on it, he thought the same thing too. That's the significance of the seal - possessing it confers legitimacy to a new Son of Heaven.

But the seal disappeared for good somewhere along the way in Chinese history, and only fakes have been seen since then. Here's an assignment for you guys who are interested - go check out the internet for info on when and how the seal was lost. Be warned: there are at least three versions of the story!

Hm here's GZ's version of the story.


I'll make it simple he once told me in a old old thread that the Imperial Jade Seal was in a history museum :( .

THe last imperial seals (the once the QIng dynasty used) is indeed in the Palace muesem in Taipei.... however am I correct that by the Qing dynasty each emperor had their own seal? I saw one and it's stated to be the Seal of Qian Long.....

My Wager is that it is probably lost in either the fall of the western Jin or the Rebellion of Hou Jing during the southern Liang dynasty.........

RollingWave we are talking about the Imperial Jade Seal. It is said if you have it the "mandate of heaven is with you" and you are the son of heaven, you have the right to become emperor and other stuff.

I've read of an official Imperial Seal that symbolized Imperial authority throughout Imperial Chinese history, but I'm not sure it's the same seal you are inquiring about.

In the book "Perpetual Happiness: The Ming Emperor Yongle", the author speaks of an Imperial seal created by the First Emperor in 221 B.C.E. The First Emperor had his chancellor Li Si, who was an accomplished calligrapher in the clerical (li) style of writing, inscribe on the seal, "Recieve the mandate from heaven/Enjoy longevity and eternal prosperity" (Shou ming yu tian/Ji shou yong chang). Chinese rulers were enamored with it, for it was equated with power, and they believed whoever won the mandate of heaven possessed the seal. It survived a number of dynastic changes, passing from Wei, Jin, Sui, Tang, and Song to the court of Khubilai Khan. After the Yuan dynasty collapsed, the seal was taken north into Mongolia by the Yuan dynasty claimants, and kept there for the next two centuries out of Ming hands (the Oirat chief, Mahmud, who came to possess the seal, once offered it to Yongle when he pledged his allegiance to the Ming, but by that time the Ming had created their own official seals). When the last Mongol khan pledged his services to the Manchu, they turned the seal over to Hong Taiji in 1635. Throughout the 1920s, the seal was highly prized by China's warlords. According to the author, the legendary seal now is in the National Palace Museum in Taipei.

I am very well aware of what we are talking about Liu......... 玉璽, the imperial jade seal used by emperors on important offical documents.

However as far as I can see the one I saw in the palace muesem couldn't possibly been created by in the Qin dyansty, thus suggesting that by the Qing dynasty they used their own seals........ and IIRC correctly the one i saw specifically said which emperor it belonged to which would also suggest that each emperor used their own by then.

I have speculation that the original seal survived the age of fragmentation... or at least into the Song....

Keep trying... my answer will take some extensive translation ;)

The Imperial Seal is desricbed to have been about 4 inchs suqare at the base, surmounted by a ring carved in the form of five interlaced Dragon. It is actually chipped on one corner, acorrding to the biography of Empress Dowager Wang of Emperor Yuan of the former Han, (an Aunt of Wang Mang), in about 6 AD when Wang Mang was planning to accend to the throne, he asked for the Seal from her, she threw it (the Seal) to the ground in disgust.

The incsricpition on the Seal is unclear, and uncertain, according to Sun Jian it says "For he who has received the Mandate from Heaven, long life and eternal glory". Others (Yu Xi) say that the last two characters say "great prosperity". And Cui Hao in the fifth century states it says "By the degree of majestic Heaven, long life and prosperity to the Sovereign Emperor". Also semi footnote, the first line is not a direct quote from Sun Jian its from another scholar named Wei Zhao, he wrote it in his book Shu Wu. What I'm saying is none of these scholars saw it with there own eyes, as far as we know.

"We are told, for instance, that the Seal was carved originally for the First Emperor of Qin, using jade from Lantian, or, according to another source, the celebrated piece of jade which had been handed to the King of Chu by the mythical Bian He. The calligraphy was attributed to the notorious Chancellor Li Si: not inappropriately, since Li Si was said to be the man responsible for the reform of the Chinese script in accordance with the unifying policies of Qin." Dr. C

The seal was later given up to Liu Bang, and it stayed in the Han, till Wang Mang seized it when taking power. It was recovered by the restoring emperor Guangwu.

But here is the part Yun is trying to get at. In 189 in Luoyang (the current capital then) He Jin was the regent marshal when Emperor Ling, was on his deathbed. The emperor had him arrange for his succession. Basically the emperor left the throne to someone the eunuchs did not want, and He Jin decided it was time to rid the court of the eunuchs. He secretly called out looking for someone from the outside to come and take care of the eunuchs. Dong Zhuo was quick to muster his men and answer the call. When the place was raided to kill the eunuchs, a fire was set and mass confusion was brought on the place. The Emperor’s heir Shao and the prince Xie both fled the city together. They ended up losing the Seal.

In 191 Sun Jian found it (in a well, I think), and this was sybolism that he would become the emperor someday (In reality his family does he doesn't). Eventually Yuan Shu kind of just asks to see the Seal for a bit or to hold on to it for him. And when Sun Jian came looking for it Yuan would stall or just not give it back, and Sun Jian never did get it back.

In 197 Yuan Shu proclaimed himself emperor, and ended up dying of stravtion in 199. Then suposivly Yuan Shu's officer Xu Qiu, took the stolen seal back to the city of Xu (In text its refered to as "Xu city" I'm not sure if it makes a difference), the city the under influnced emperor Xian was (being controled by Cao Cao who was the prime minster at the time).

After the Seal was returned it remained in the Emperor Xian's possesion for the next 20 years. Finally when Cao Pi took the throne he received the seal (December 11 220). Cao Huan then gives it to Sima Yan the first emperor of the Jin in (Febuary 4th 266). I wasn't sure of this fact it would make more sense that Sima Yi would get it, but here are the refeneces for it: SGZ 4, 154, and JS 25, 772.

After this things just become more and more unclear. Its is said that the seal is actually taken in the Jin Dynasty by those Xiongnu people in 311, when Luoyang was sacked (This was done by Liu Cong). This also marks the end of the Western Jin Dynasty.

Liu Cong ruled the state of Former Zhao, and his successor was Liu Yao. He ended up being defeated by Shi Le in 329. And the seal went into Shi Le's hands. In 352 the government fell apart, and there was a bit of chaos, but none the less the Seal was returned to the court in the Eastern Jin in an area south of the Yangzi. And here we get yet another translation of the seal "Receiving Heaven's Mandate, long life and prosperity to the Imperial Sovereign" cited by the scholar Xu Guang.

All the time people question if the seal was lost somewhere down the line or if a forgy was made. Possibly. Its intersting to point out that Yuan Shu nor Emperor Xian gained any more prestige on having the Seal in the Book (or it seems to me).

Well I tryed my best Yun. I'm intersted to hear your take on it :) .

GoH, you've basically got one of the versions of the story, although some details are left out. I'm still too busy today to give the answer, but those of you who can't wait and can read Chinese can go look at this article.

If Sephodwyrm can translate it into English, GoH and I would be very very appreciative. Otherwise, GoH you may have to wait until Monday or Tuesday.

In the meantime, here's another question to dig into: did the KMT take the Qing imperial seal with them to Taiwan in 1949 because they wanted to show that they were still the legitimate Chinese government? In other words, did the Mandate of Heaven concept still influence political thinking even at this time?

OK, I couldn't bear to let you guys go on waiting, so here I am at 2.30am trying to start on the translation of the above article. I'll omit some repetitive or less relevant passages, because the article is actually made up of four similar but also (in crucial places) different posts on a Chinese RTK forum called Our Sanguo.

According to the histories, the Imperial Jade Seal was carved upon the orders of Qin Shihuang, as a symbol of the supreme authority of the emperor. It is said to have been carved from the piece of exquisite Mount Jing jade that was found by Bian He - the famous "Heshi Bi (He's Stone)". The story of He's Stone is a theme that runs through the entire history of the Spring and Autumn and Warring States periods. The legend goes that Bian He was a man of the state of Chu in the Spring and Autumn period. When he was cutting firewood on Mount Jing, he found an uncut jade stone and presented it to King Li of Chu. The King thought it was only a normal rock, and had Bian He's right leg cut off as punishment for fraud. Bian He didn't give up, and later presented his stone to King Li's sucessor, King Wu. But King Wu thought the same way, and had Bian He's left leg amputated as well. Finally, King Wen of Chu came to the throne, and heard that the legless Bian He was spending his days crying his heart out at the foot of Mount Jing, hugging the jade stone that had brought him so much misery. The King sent his men to cut open the stone, and there was indeed a priceless piece of jade inside. In recognition of poor Bian He, King Wen named the jade "He's Stone". According to the records, He's Stone would glow in the dark, and when placed in a house it remained warm in winter (serving well as a stove) and cool in summer (thus keeping mosquitoes and flies out). It was also dust resistant and a potent charm against ghosts and spirits. The Chu regarded it as a state treasure. In the Warring States period, the Chu Prime Minister Zhao Yang lost the jade at a banquet, and suspected the famous diplomat Zhang Yi of stealing it. He had Zhang Yi beaten severely, which led to Zhang offering his services to Qin. In fact, Zhang Yi had been wrongly accused, and the jade had actually been stolen away to the state of Zhao by an unknown thief. This set for the stage for the famous story of the Zhao Prime Minister Ning Xiangru retrieving the jade from Qin. After Qin Shihuang conquered the other six states, however, He's Stone finally came into Qin possession.






More on the Zhang Yi and Ning Xiangru stories: Zhao Yang was given He's Stone by King Wei of Chu as a reward for his victorious campaign to conquer the state of Yue. When Zhao Yang was having his banquet by a deep pool, someone claimed that he had seen a large fish in the pool, and everyone left his place to look. When they came back, they found that the jade was gone. They suspected Zhang Yi of stealing it, and interrogated him but could get no confession out of him. In his indignation at being wronged, Zhang Yi left Chu and moved to Wei, and then moved on to Qin. He became the Prime Minister of Qin and embarked on a diplomatic campaign to persuade other states to become clients of Qin, thus breaking up the alliance between Qi and Chu. As result, Chu was later defeated by the Qin, and lost the Hanzhong area.

50 years after the disappearance of He's Stone, it reappeared in the possession of the Zhao eunuch Ying Xian. King Huiwen of Zhao then confiscated it for his own collection. At this time, Qin had become a very strong state, and when King Zhaoxiang of Qin heard that He's Stone had reemerged, he offered to give Zhao 15 cities (which he had captured from Zhao) in exchange for the jade. The Zhao king was afraid that Qin would not honour its promise to turn over the 15 cities, and sent the wily Prime Minister Ning Xiangru to Qin to make sure the deal was kept. Ning Xiangru brought He's Stone to Qin, but when he presented it before the Qin king and saw that King Zhaoxiang had no intention of honouring his part of the exchange, he used a brilliant tactic to salvage the situation - he threatened to smash the jade against a pillar, and then bash his own head in as well. The Qin king believed him, and had no choice but to arrange for the handing over of the 15 cities. But perceiving that the Qin would back out again, Ning Xiangru secretly sent He's Stone back to Zhao.

To be continued... (next - the Imperial Jade Seal during the Qin and Han dynasties)

Thanks for the translation,Yun :P

I would love to hear the Han part of the Imperial seal keep up the good work.

BTW, the reason that Bian He was sure the stone had jade inside, even though he couldn't see it, is because he apparently saw a phoenix flying down and landing on it. According to legend, the phoenix does not set foot on normal ground, so any rock that it lands on must contain some kind of treasure.

Is my verison not good enough for you guys :( ? jp :P :lol:

Actually GoH's version of what happened in the Han is mostly accurate. My addition is more to do with the Qin. :)

In 228 BC [61 years after Ning Xiangru's story], Ying Zheng, King of Qin, conquered Zhao and captured He's Stone. Ying Zheng soon unified China [in 221 BC] and took the title of Shihuangdi (First Emperor). He ordered Li Si to write the eight words "Shouming Yutian, Jishou Yongchang" (He who has received the Mandate of Heaven, long-lived and eternally prosperous) in "seal script" calligraphy. The jade-cutter Wang Sunshou then smoothened He's Stone, fashioned it into a seal and carved these words into its base according to Li Si's calligraphy. This was the Imperial Jade Seal [As GoH stated, it was four inches by four inches, with a handle in the shape of five entwined dragons].



In 219 BC, Qin Shihuang went on an inspection tour around his empire. When his barge was crossing Lake Dongting, it met with a storm, and one of the ministers suggested throwing the seal into the lake to appease the water spirits. Upon casting the seal into the waters, the storm did indeed end. Eight years later [211 BC], a man dredged the seal up from the lake bed. At that time, Qin Shihuang was on an inspection tour in Huayin [in Shaanxi], and the man intercepted the imperial procession and presented the seal, saying, "Return this to the ancestral dragon" (an allusion to Qin Shihuang being the first emperor - this mysterious man who returned the seal may have been some kind of Daoist immortal). Qin Shihuang believed that he had "received the Mandate of Heaven", but his dynasty proved not to be "long-lived and eternally prosperous". Not long after his death [actually two years after - 207 BC], Liu Bang's army entered Xianyang and the last Qin emperor Ziying offered up the seal to him. After the founding of the Han dynasty, the seal was presented to every emperor at his accession, as a sign of his having inherited the Mandate of Heaven.

At the end of the Western Han, when Wang Mang usurped the throne from the two-year-old last Han emperor, the seal was in the safekeeping of his aunt, the Empress Dowager Wang (widow of Emperor Yuan). Wang Mang sent his younger brother Wang Shun to the Empress Dowager's palace to get the seal from her. In her anger at her nephew's treachery, she threw the seal on the ground, chipping a corner off it. Later, this corner was replaced with an inlaid piece of gold. After the victory of Emperor Guangwu (Liu Xiu) and his restoration of the Han, the seal came into the possession of the Eastern Han court.

[The annotation to the Hou Han Shu (Book of the Later Han dynasty) biography of Xu Qiu elaborates on this: When the Lulin rebels killed Wang Mang, the seal was presented to Liu Xuan [Emperor Gengshi]. When Liu Xuan surrendered to the Red Eyebrow rebels, he handed the seal to them. When Liu Xiu defeated the Red Eyebrows, Liu Penzi surrendered the seal to him.]



At the end of the Eastern Han, the eunuchs dominated the court. In the sixth year of Zhongping (189 AD, the year Emperor Ling died - the Chinese text here mistakenly writes it as the sixth year of Xiping, which is 177 AD), Yuan Shao led his troops into the palace to massacre the eunuchs, and the senior eunuch Duan Gui [and also Zhang Rang] fled from the capital with the boy emperor (Liu Bian). [Duan and Zhang committed suicide and the emperor was returned safely to the palace, but the seal could not be found in the palace. It had apparently gone missing in the chaos of the massacre.]

Dong Zhuo seized power in the court during the reign of Emperor Xian (Liu Xie, younger brother of Liu Bian who had been deposed by Dong), and an alliance of other warlords attacked him and forced him to withdraw to Chang'an from Luoyang. Sun Jian's army was first to enter Luoyang, and his soldiers saw a five-coloured aura at the mouth of a well in the palace. His men searched the well, and found the Imperial Jade Seal [there is no corpse in this account, which makes a little more sense even if the aura doesn't]. Sun then had the seal hidden with his wife Lady Wu. Yuan Shu later arrested Sun Jian's wife and took the seal. After Yuan Shu's death, his subordinate the Governor of Jingzhou Xu Qiu [coincidentally, his name Qiu means "fine jade"] brought the seal to Xuchang, where Emperor Xian was under the "protection" of Cao Cao. Thus the seal came back into the hands of the Han court - for now.

In Chapter 6 of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, "Sun Jian breaks his oath by hiding the Imperial Jade Seal", Dong Zhuo is defeated by the warlord alliance and withdraws to Chang'an with Emperor Xian. Before he leaves, he sets the palace ablaze and digs up the imperial tombs to loot the treasures within. The vanguard of the alliance troops, led by Sun Jian, rushes into Luoyang, puts out the fire, and sets up camp at Jianzhang Hall in the imperial palace. His soldiers recover the body of a woman from a well just south of the Hall. From the woman's neck hangs a silk pouch with a vermillion-coloured casket inside. The casket is locked with a golden lock, and when this lock is broken, the soldiers find a jade seal that is five by five inches, with a handle of five intertwined dragons, and an inscription in seal script with the auspicious words "He who has received the Mandate of Heaven, long-lived and eternally prosperous". General Cheng Pu informs Sun Jian that this is the Imperial Jade Seal, and that whoever obtains it will have the right to become emperor. Sun Jian's ambitions are fired up by this, and he quickly makes a request to return to the south with the excuse of being sick, hoping to start his bid for power at his home base. The alliance leader, Yuan Shao hears of Sun Jian's real motives and demands that he hand up the seal. Sun Jian denies that he has the seal, and the two nearly come to blows. The alliance breaks up because of this. Yuan Shao send instructions to Liu Biao, Governor of Jingzhou, to intercept Sun Jian and capture the seal, thus setting up a confrontation between Liu and Sun.

The account in the Romance is based upon the "Book of the Wu dynasty" (Wu Shu, an official history written by the Wu court) and the "Records of Master Shanyang" (Shanyang Gong Zaiji) [but the bit about the corpse was added in]. Although Pei Songzhi, in his annotation of the Sanguo Zhi, argued that Sun Jian was renowned for his loyalty among the alliance armies, and could not have done such an unscrupulous thing as keeping the seal for himself, he did not deny that the seal existed.

[Actually Pei Songzhi also argued that Sun Jian could not have found the seal because when Sun Hao surrendered to the Jin, he offered up the six golden seals used by the Wu emperor, but there was no mention of any Imperial Jade Seal. Clearly he did not consider the story of the seal being retaken by Yuan Shu to be true either - he basically argued that the seal had never been lost and never left the Han court.]



Both Yuan Shao and Liu Biao were unable to seize the seal from Sun Jian. But after Sun Jian's death, according to the Romance, his son Sun Ce gave the seal as a deposit to Yuan Shu in exchange for soldiers to form an army. But the account in the "Records of Master Shanyang", as well as the "Notes of an Idle Southern Farmer" (Nancun Chuogeng Lu) by Tao Zongyi of the Yuan dynasty, state that Yuan Shu captured Sun Jian's wife Lady Wu when she was bringing Sun Jian's coffin back to his hometown, and forced her to hand over the seal. In a kind of poetic justice, after Yuan Shu's death the Prefect of Guangling Xu Qiu also forced Yuan's wife to hand over the seal, and offered it up to Cao Cao.

[The story about Xu Qiu seizing the seal is from his Hou Han Shu biography. The biography states that Xu had been Prefect of Donghai Principality, and was recalled to Xuchang as Minister of Justice by Emperor Xian (under the control of Cao Cao). But on the way there to take up the post, he was captured by Yuan Shu, who tried to recruit him as a minister. Xu refused, and Yuan Shu kept him under house arrest. After Yuan Shu's death, Xu Qiu took the seal and went to Xuchang, where Cao Cao appointed him as Minister of Rites. Later, Cao Cao even offered to give up the post of Prime Minister to Xu, but Xu wisely declined. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms changed the story by saying that Xu was Yuan Shu's subordinate, and intercepted Yuan Shu's wife and his nephew Yuan Yin when they were bringing his coffin to Lujiang, killed them, and seized the seal. It doesn't state Xu Qiu's post in Yuan Shu's staff, which is quite telling because Xu Qiu did not in fact hold a post at this time - he was actually a prisoner! For this reason, you see two versions above of what Xu Qiu's post was:

1) Governor of Jingzhou: This is wrong because Xu held that post during the reign of Emperor Ling, and had already been transferred to be Prefect of Runan and then Prefect of Donghai by the time he was recalled to Xuchang.

2) Prefect (or Former Prefect) of Guangling: This is even more off the mark - Xu Qiu's place of origin was Guangling, and so the writer who made that mistake probably saw "Xu Qiu of Guangling" somewhere and assumed that this was his official post. This mistake was probably first made by Sima Guang in his Zizhi Tongjian. It is then repeated in the Houhan Yanyi (Romance of the Later Han) written by Cai Dongfan in the 1920s.

The RTK also makes up two details about the seal:

1) That Yuan Shu tried to offer the seal to Yuan Shao in exchange for protection after his military defeat.

2) That Xu Qiu was given the post of Prefect of Gaoling by Cao Cao as a reward for offering up the seal. There is no record of this in his Hou Han Shu biography.

Additional note: Yu Xi of the Eastern Jin in his Zhilin 《志林》 (Collected Essays) reported that there were two versions of what had been inscribed on the seal: 1) Shouming Yutian, Jishou Qiekang 受命于天，既寿且康 (He who has received the Mandate of Heaven, long-lived and affluent), and 2) Shouming Yutian, Jishou Yongchang 受命于天，既寿永昌 (He who has received the Mandate of Heaven, long-lived and eternally prosperous). He was not sure which version was correct. This is because when he wrote this book, the seal was in the possession of the Later Zhao in the north, and so few people in the Eastern Jin court had ever seen it. More on this in the next post!

Next: the Three Kingdoms and Age of Fragmentation

Even though there were different versions of how the imperial seal passed from Sun Jian's hands to Yuan Shu's and finally back to the Cao Cao-dominated Han court at Xuchang, and Pei Songzhi doubted that it had ever fallen into Sun Jian's hands in the first place, the fact remains that the seal was in the possession of the last Han emperor (Han Xiandi) in 220, when Cao Pi forced him to abdicate the throne.

Cao Pi deposed the Han emperor and enthroned himself, forcing Han Xiandi to hand over the imperial jade seal. He also cockily had a small line of words inscribed on one side of the seal: "The Wei receives the imperial seal of the Han." But after only 45 years, the seal came into the hands of Sima Yan. Fortunately, Sima Yan did not add another line saying "The Jin receives the imperial seal of the Wei." If it had become a tradition, future usurpers would have eventually run out space on the seal! But anyway, later emperors would have to find another seal to inscribe even if they wanted to do so, because this original imperial jade seal, carved from He's Stone, was lost somewhere along the way.

What happened to the seal after the fall of the Western Jin? Here's one version:



In 311 AD, Luoyang fell to Liu Cong, Xiongnu ruler of the Former Zhao [actually known as the Han at this time], and Emperor Huai of the Western Jin, Sima Chi, was captured. The seal thus came into the possession of the Xiongnu.

In 329 AD, Shi Le of the Later Zhao conquered the Former Zhao and acquired the seal. On its right side, he added an inscription reading "The Mandate of Heaven goes to the Shi family". [More graffiti!]

In 350 AD, Ran Min usurped the throne of the Later Zhao and took the seal for himself. The Murong Xianbei of the Former Yan state invaded Ran Min's new Wei state, and he asked the Eastern Jin for help. The Jin general sent to aid the Ran Wei regime tricked the Ran Wei into handing the seal over, and then sent 300 elite cavalry to rush through the night escorting the seal south to Jiankang (Nanjing), the Eastern Jin capital. Thus the imperial jade seal was restored to the Sima imperial house of the Jin dynasty.

In the Southern Dynasties, the seal passed from the Eastern Jin to the Liu-Song, then to the Qi, Liang and Chen dynasties in succession [The founding emperor of each dynasty usurped the throne and forced the last emperor of the previous dynasty to abdicate and hand over the seal].

After the Sui dynasty reunified the empire [in 589, by conquering the Chen], the seal came into its possession.

Another very different version:

The seal passed from the Wei through the Western Jin, Former Zhao, and Later Zhao, finally coming into the hands of Fu Jian of the Former Qin [probably because he had conquered the Former Yan which earlier conquered the Ran Wei]. Later [after his defeat at the Fei River and the rebellions by his former subjects the Murong Xianbei and the Qiang], Fu Jian was captured by his former general Yao Chang [the Qiang leader], and Yao demanded that he hand over the jade seal. Fu Jian claimed that the seal had been sent south to the Eastern Jin to prevent Yao Chang from getting it. But the Eastern Jin was an enemy of the Former Qin, and Fu Jian had no reason to offer the seal back to them. In fact, the location of the seal becomes a mystery from this moment on. Since north China was now divided between various minority peoples, we have reason to infer that the imperial jade seal was acquired by one of these peoples [but not the Qiang].



(continued) Yao Chang wanted to become an emperor himself, and for that he felt he needed an imperial seal. So when he founded the Later Qin state, he forged his own "imperial jade seal". This action was imitated by other emperor-wannabes, such that Murong Chui of the Later Yan [the new state founded by the Murong Xianbei after rebelling against the Former Qin] also forged a seal for himself. The Eastern Jin had always maintained that it was the legitimate ruling dynasty of China, and so when it saw this, it quickly forged an imperial seal as well. However, the Eastern Jin made a mistake in the inscription for the seal [probably because they had not seen the seal for such a long time, as also suggested by Yu Xi's confusion over the actual inscription as mentioned at the end of the previous post] - it was mangled into Shoutian Zhiming, Huangdi Shouchang 受天之命，皇帝寿昌 (Receiving the Mandate of Heaven, the Emperor long-lived and prosperous). They also made up a story that this seal had been handed over to them by Ran Min's general Jiang Gan [and supposedly also wrote this into their history books!].

The Later Qin's "imperial seal" was captured by the great Eastern Jin general Liu Yu [who later usurped the throne and founded the Liu-Song] when he conquered the Later Qin in 417. It was sent to Jiankang, but when the Eastern Jin ascertained that it was a fake, they melted it down. The Eastern Jin's own "seal" was eventually captured by the Northern Qi [during Hou Jing's rebellion of 548-552 - see the next post for details]. Meanwhile, the Later Yan's seal had [after the fall of the Later Yan to the Northern Wei] slowly found its way into the hands of the Northern Zhou [the rival state of the Northern Qi in north China in the mid and late 6th century]. After the Northern Zhou conquered the Northern Qi [in 577], they had the Northern Qi's fake Eastern Jin "seal" melted down too. So out of the three fake seals, only the Later Yan seal was left at the end of the Age of Fragmentation. It was still a fake, but better than nothing!

Note: so was the imperial jade seal really lost forever at the end of the Former Qin, as the second version says? Here are the historical records...

In late May of 352, Ran Min has already been captured in battle by the Former Yan (although he will only be executed on 1 June), and his young crown prince Ran Zhi is holding out in the Ran Wei capital city Ye 邺 against a Yan siege, along with his chief advisor, the Ran Wei Grand General Jiang Gan. A famine breaks out in the besieged city, and the desperate residents resort to cannibalism (this is when the huge harem of beautiful concubines collected by Shi Hu is killed and eaten by the starving soldiers). Jiang Gan decides to send two ministers to sneak out and head south to the Eastern Jin with an offer of surrender, since an intervention by the Eastern Jin is their only hope of survival.

The Jin general Dai Shi is at that point stationed at Fangtou (in Henan) to monitor the chaotic situation in the Ran Wei, and having met the two Ran Wei ministers, marches north to cross the Yellow River while sending one of the ministers back to Ye to request that the imperial jade seal be handed over as a term of surrender. But Jiang Gan has doubts about both the sincerity and the ability of Dai Shi to aid him against the Former Yan, and hesitates to make a decision.

In early July, Dai Shi leads over a hundred elite troops into Ye [breaking through the Former Yan siege lines] in the name of aiding in the defense of the city. But he then tricks Jiang Gan, saying, "The Yan are right outside this city, cutting off all lines of communication, and it would be unsafe for you to attempt to send the imperial jade seal to Jiankang yourself. I think it's best if you pass the seal to me first, and I'll then send a messenger to inform our emperor that the seal is with me. His Majesty will then believe your sincerity and send more armies and supplies here." Jiang Gan takes Dai Shi's word for it, and hands the seal over. Dai Shi then ostensibly sends his colleague He Rong out of the city to gather supplies; in fact He Rong has the imperial jade seal hidden on him, and brings it to Fangtou.

On 4 July, Jiang Gan leads 5,000 of his elite troops and the Eastern Jin troops in a combined assault on the Yan siege lines. They are soundly defeated, with 4,000 of them being killed, and Jiang Gan only narrowly escaping back to the city. The city continues holding out until 8 September, when a defecting Ran Wei officer opens the gates and lets the Yan army in. Jiang Gan and Dai Shi escape to the south by climbing out of the city with ropes. The Former Yan capture Ran Zhi and his mother (Ran Min's wife) Empress Dowager Dong, and in order to secure their legitimacy, they announce that the Empress Dowager has handed the imperial jade seal over to them.

So is this story real? Either the Former Yan was lying, or the Eastern Jin. But this is what makes the author of the second account suspect that the Eastern Jin was lying: In the same official history of the Jin dynasty (written in the Tang dynasty) that spoke of Dai Shi getting the seal back, it is also recorded that Yao Chang demanded the imperial jade seal from Fu Jian, and that Fu Jian claimed that it had been sent to the Eastern Jin. So either

1) Fu Jian's seal was the real one that he captured from the Former Yan, and we will never know where he hid it.

2) It was real and he did send it to Eastern Jin - but why in that case would the Eastern Jin later forge their own seal with a faulty inscription?

3) Or Fu Jian's seal was a fake one and Yao Chang didn't know this. The real one had been brought south by Dai Shi.

Let us assume for now that (3) is true, and therefore that the real imperial jade seal actually passed from the Eastern Jin to the Southern Dynasties and then to the Sui. In other words, the Sui got the real seal from conquering the Chen, and not the fake Later Yan seal from usurping the throne of the Northern Zhou. We will then continue the story of the imperial seal by covering the Sui, Tang and Five Dynasties in the next post. Be warned - it just gets murkier and murkier!! :blink:

Here's the full story of how the Eastern Jin/Southern Dynasties seal fell into the hands of the Northern Qi:

In fact, during the Northern and Southern Dynasties, there was already a defeated warlord who thought of destroying the Imperial Jade Seal, but a twist of fate allowed the seal to exist for another 500 years.

Hou Jing was a warlord from the north who fled to the south and then tried to seize the throne for himself. [Hou Jing rebelled against the Liang emperor Xiao Yan in 548, when the latter decided to turn him over to his enemies in the north - this rebellion brought about the downfall of the Liang dynasty and the permanent weakening of the South]. Hou Jing was no less than 1.6m in height, with a torso longer than his legs. He was paranoid and cruel, and killed people as a sort of pastime, sometimes having people killed as he ate and laughed [Hou Jing was indeed a rather cruel man, but he has been demonised in the official histories - modern historians are a bit fairer to him]. His rebellion brought immense suffering to the people of the South, and was known as the Hou Jing Rebellion in history.

This tyrant's dream of being emperor ended after less than a year of reigning in Nanjing (Jiankang). [Actually, Hou Jing controlled Jiankang for about four years, from 549 to 552] When he was defeated and forced to flee [by Xiao Yan's son Xiao Yi], he brought the Imperial Jade Seal with him and entrusted it to his subordinate [a man named Zhao Sixian], saying: "If I am killed, throw this seal into the Yangzi River, so that those southerners don't get it back." Hou Jing was later murdered by one of his own generals, and his body was brought back to Jiankang where the residents each grabbed a slice of his flesh and ate it as a kind of revenge against him (even his bones were divided among the people).

But the seal was not thrown into the river after all - Hou Jing's subordinate took refuge with another warlord and handed it over to him. [What actually happened is that Zhao Sixian crossed the Yangzi River without throwing the seal away (he knew it would be valuable as a gift to whomever took him in), but he ran into bandits on the northern bank of the river, and in the confusion his servants threw the seal into a thicket of grass. Zhao Sixian managed to drive the bandits away and reached Guangling, whose garrison commander Guo Yuanjian (another of Hou Jing's men) had just surrendered to the Northern Qi. The Northern Qi general Xin Shu had already marched into Guangling to oversee the handing over of the city, and so Guo Yuanjian sent his troops out to recover the seal, and then handed it over to Xin Shu as well. Xin Shu then sent the seal back north to the Northern Qi.]

- however, as related earlier, this seal may have been a fake, and was supposedly destroyed by the Northern Zhou after the conquest of the Northern Qi. The Northern Zhou seal was allegedly also a fake made by the Later Yan, so we cannot really tell which seal it was that the Sui finally used - the Southern Dynasties seal, held by either the Northern Qi or the Chen, or the Later Yan seal, held by the Northern Zhou.

The first text in the next section assumes that the Sui seal was obtained from the Chen in 589, and that this was the real seal (i.e. that the real seal had never been in the hands of the Former Qin, but was with the Eastern Jin instead, and that this seal was not handed over to the Northern Qi by Guo Yuanjian in 552). As you can see, that's assuming a lot!

The Sui, Tang and Five Dynasties



The Imperial Jade Seal, after returning to the hands of the Eastern Jin, passed through Liu-Song, Southern Qi, Liang, Chen (the Southern Dynasties) and Sui, and finally came into the hands of Li Yuan, Emperor Gaozu of the Tang, who changed the name of the seal from 玺 "xi" (imperial seal) to 宝 "bao" (treasure). The seal passed from one Tang emperor to the next, but vanished mysteriously during the Five Dynasties, and Zhao Kuangyin, Emperor Taizu of the Song, only managed to obtain two lesser seals from the Later Zhou when he usurped the throne.

But how did the seal disappear during the Five Dynasties? It's a dramatic story, and here are more details that seem to contradict the earlier text, including the seal falling into the hands of the Tujue for a while:



In 618 AD, the Sui dynasty fell with Emperor Yangdi, Yang Guang, being murdered by the traitor Yuwen Huaji in Yangzhou. [Actually, there were still three different Sui "puppet emperors" being used by different warlords after Yang Guang's death. Yuwen Huaji used one of Yang Guang's nephews, while Li Yuan and Wang Shichong each set up one of Yang Guang's grandsons in Chang'an and Luoyang respectively. All three were killed off by their respective warlord masters in 619, who then made themselves emperor.] Empress Xiao (Yang Guang's wife) brought the seal with her when she sought asylum with the Tujue in Mongolia.

[The story of Empress Xiao: after Yuwen Huaji was defeated and killed by the rebel warlord Dou Jiande, she requested to go and live with the Tujue, since her daughter (i.e. one of Yang Guang's princesses) was married to the Tujue Kaghan. Dou Jiande let her leave, mindful of the military strength of the Tujue. The text also states that she went with Yang Guang's elder son, the Yuande Crown Prince Yang Zhao - this is incorrect, because Yang Zhao had died early in 606.]

At the beginning of the Tang dynasty, Tang Taizong had to make do without an imperial jade seal, and had some new jade seals carved to stand in for it. They were given names like "Treasure of the Received Mandate" (shouming bao) and "Treasure of the Secured Mandate" (dingming bao) [probably because the name "xi" - imperial seal - could only belong to the official seal.]

In the fourth year of Zhenguan (630 AD), General Li Jing led the Tang armies to subjugate the Tujue, and Empress Xiao returned to China with the seal, which was then passed down in the Tang dynasty.

At the end of the Tang, in 907 AD Zhu Quanzhong deposed the last Tang emperor (Emperor Aidi) and took the imperial seal for himself, founding the Later Liang dynasty.

In 923 AD, Li Cunxu destroyed the Later Liang (the second Lian emperor, Zhu Quanzhong's son Zhu Youzhen, committed suicide) and founded the Later Tang. The seal came into his possession.

In 936, the Later Tang general Shi Jingtang rebelled, and joined forces with the Khitan to attack the capital city Luoyang. The last Later Tang emperor, Li Congke, brought the imperial seal with him up the Xuanwu Tower and set it on fire, committing suicide with his entire family. All traces of the seal were lost after this. [Shi Jingtang then founded the Later Jin, the third of the Five Dynasties.]

When the founder of the Later Zhou (the last of the Five Dynasties), Guo Wei, was unable to recover the Imperial Jade Seal despite mounting extensive searches, he had no choice but to carve two new seals with the inscription "The Emperor's Divine Treasure " (Huangdi Shenbao). These two seals passed on to the Northern Song.

So was the Imperial Jade Seal finally destroyed by fire at the fall of the Later Tang, if it had not already been lost at the fall of the Former Qin in the 4th century? Even if it was, seals claimed to be the original Imperial Jade Seal continued to resurface later in Chinese history.

Finally, after a four-month delay, here's the last installment in the story of the Imperial Jade Seal...

In the Shaosheng reign of Song Zhezong (1094-1097), a peasant in Xianyang named Duan Yi discovered an imperial seal while plowing the fields. Its colour was blue-green, its texture was warm, smooth and luminous, and it had a handle of glass. After much investigation by 13 scholars in the imperial academies, based on records and artifacts from previous dynasties, it was concluded that this was the Imperial Jade Seal made by Qin Shihuang! [No one seems to have bothered to explain how it ended up in a field in Xianyang!]

In 1126, when Kaifeng fell to the Jurchen and Emperors Huizong and Qinzong were captured, the Imperial Jade Seal was also taken away by the Jurchen, and was never heard of again.

In 1294, when Khubilai Khan passed away, the Imperial Jade Seal suddenly reappeared in the capital of Dadu (Beijing), being offered for sale in a marketplace. The Prime Minister Bayan quickly had it bought for the Yuan court. This same Bayan had collected all the imperial seals from the states conquered by the Mongols, and had their inscriptions removed for the Yuan aristocrats and ministers to use them as their personal seals.

In 1368, Zhu Yuanzhang proclaimed himself emperor of the Great Ming in Nanjing. The Mongols fled back to the steppe. At the beginning of the Ming, Zhu Yuanzhang sent Xu Da into the steppe to pursue the Mongols, hoping to regain the Imperial Jade Seal, but it was in vain. This is the last record of the seal in Chinese history.



Ming Xiaozong (Hongzhi, 1488-1505) also once obtained a so-called Imperial Jade Seal, but he believed it was fake and did not use it. In the early Qing, there were 39 jade seals in the Forbidden City, and one of them was thought to be the Imperial Jade Seal. In 1746, an investigation by the Qianlong emperor concluded that this was a fake. Even up till November 1924, however, when the last emperor Puyi was driven out of the Forbidden City [by the warlord Feng Yuxiang], the Chief Police Superintendent Zhang Bi, as well as Lu Zhonglin [one of Feng Yuxiang's trusted generals] and others, continued to try and get this gold-inlaid jade seal from Puyi.

I just read that the imperial jade seal was passed down among the Mongols after the fall of the Yuan, and was seized by Huangtaiji after the Manchus defeated the Chahar Mongols in 1634. Can anyone verify this?

If so ... why did the Qing dynasty used different seals for each emperor? or did they had a shared seal and a individual seal?

Yes Huang Tai Ji got hold of the Yuan dynasty Imperial seal after defeating the Chahar Mongols however I am not sure if that is "The Imperail Jade Seal".

Huang Tai Ji used the seal to justify conquering Ming.
Once he had the seal he made him self Emporer of Qing dynasty<大清皇帝> instead of the Great Khan of the Jin dynasty< 大金可汗>.

Hmm, the plot thickens further. I just read in the dynastic history of the Northern Wei that in 446, after Tuoba Tao visited Chang'an and ordered a statewide persecution of Buddhism because of the rebellious activities of the monks there, two jade seals were discovered under a destroyed five-story pagoda in Ye. Both were inscribed with 受命于天，既寿永昌 (the imperial jade seal's inscription), and one of them also had the inscription "The Wei receives the imperial seal of the Han" on its side, suggesting that this was the seal that Cao Pi got from Han Xiandi. But how did the seal get hidden in Ye? Was it buried under the pagoda during the siege of the Ran Wei in Ye by the Murong Xianbei in 352? If so, both the seal supposedly brought south by Dai Shi and the one supposedly captured by the Murong were not authentic, and the Northern Wei was the first dynasty after over a hundred years to have the real seal. Or is this merely a story made up by the Northern Wei court to enhance its legitimacy?

Was it Sun Jian or Sun Ce who gave the seal to Yuan Shu in history? In some versions it seemed to be Sun Ce. Any one can verify?

So where's the seal?

"It's in my next book - somewhere, a clan with ancient roots has been hiding a secret for nearly 2,000 years, protecting a very old jade piece and nine bronze vessels on tripods until it was safe to reveal them to the world again." Tan Brown

Seriously, unless they are discovered, the mystery would never be answered.

Historians, archaelogists and scientists can prove antiquity of written records, but they cannot prove what was written unless the objects show up.

Would you like to name it 'Dragon Seal' or 'Sima Code'?

In the RTK it is Sun Ce who gives it to Yuan Shu in exchange for troops for his campaign to capture Jiangdong. In the sources cited by the Pei Songzhi commentary to the Sanguo Zhi, Yuan Shu forces Sun Jian's wife to hand it over when she is escorting Sun's coffin back to his hometown. This was after Sun Jian was killed attacking Liu Biao at Xiangyang.

thanks Yun, interesting read. i first knew about 和氏壁 when i was reading the wuxia novel 大唐双龙记. http://www.shuku.net:8082/novels/huang/dat...atang01-07.html

I found this article from website.
http://www.mongolia800.mn/eng/content/view/157/43/

No author name was there. Quality of translation into english is so bad. But anyone who has little knowledge of history can filter right from wrong

Nephrite- is that Jade?



I think AUTHOR is inner Mongolian

That seems to be an attempt to 'prove' the story that I mentioned in an earlier post:

Additional notes

Jade Seal was obtained by Mongols of Yuan Empire. They kept it in order to govern China.

Kublai caused great division among Mongols by establishing Yuan Dyansty. True Nomad Mongols rallied around Arigbuha, then Haidu. Nomads were lost several battles.

Is that real Jade seal stamp? looks like chinese charachters


Can someone post image of stamp of Imperial Jade seal from ancient chinese sourse? Without solid fact images, argument is just a another story

The Imperial Seal of China

The Heirloom Seal of the Realm (Traditional Chinese: 傳國璽; Simplified Chinese: 传国玺), is a jade seal carved out of the He Shi Bi, a historically famous piece of jade.


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Creation

In 221 BC, the Seal was created when Qin Shihuang destroyed the remaining Warring States and united China under the Qin Dynasty. The He Shi Bi was a famous piece of jade stone which previously belonged to the Zhao state. Passing into the hands of the new Emperor of China, he ordered it made into his Imperial seal. The words “受命于天，既寿永昌” (roughly translated as "The Mandate is received from Heaven, May He have Longevity and Prosperity") were written by Prime Minister Li Si, and carved onto the seal by Sun Shou.


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Propagation

At the death of the second Emperor of Qin, his successor Zi Yin profferred the seal to the new emperor of the Han Dynasty,whereafter it was known as the "Han Heirloom Seal of the Realm". At the end of the Western Han Dynasty in 9 AD, Wang Mang, the new ruler, forced the Han emperess dowager to hand over the Seal. The emperess dowager, in anger, threw the Seal on the ground, chipping one corner. Later Wang Mang ordered the corner to be restored with gold.
This seal passed on even as dynasties rose and fell. It was seen as a legitimising device, signalling the Mandate of Heaven. During turbulent periods, such as the Three Kingdoms period, the seal became the object of rivalry and armed conflict. Regimes which possessed the seal declared themselves, and are often regarded historically, as legitimate. At the end of the restored Han Dynasty in the 3rd Century AD, Sun Jian found the Imperial Seal on the body of a court servant who had committed suicide by diving into a well. His son Sun Ce gave the Seal to Yuan Shu in return for 3000 soldiers, which he used to found the Kingdom of Wu. When Yuan Shu was defeated, the Seal came into the hands of Cao Cao, whose son Cao Pi proclaimed the Wei Dynasty as the legitimate successor state to Han and the other rival dynasties Shu-Han and Wu to be illegitimate.


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Loss

The Seal was passed through the Wei Dynasty, Jin Dynasty, Sixteen Kingdoms period, Sui Dynasty and Tang Dynasty, but was lost to history in the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period.

Three theories exist as to how it was lost:

1. At the end of the Tang Dynasty, when the last Emperor died by self-immolation.

2. In 946 CE when the Emperor Taizu of Liao captured the last Emperor of the Jin state.

3. The Seal came into the hands of the Yuan emperors. When the Ming armies captured the Yuan capital in 1369, it captured just one out of the eleven personal Seals of the Yuan emperors. The Heirloom Seal was not found. In 1370, Ming armies invaded Mongolia and captured some treasures brought there by the retreating Yuan emperor. However, the Heirloom Seal was again not among these.

In any case, the Seal was known to be lost by the beginning of the Ming Dynasty. Both the Ming and the Qing dynasties did not have the Heirloom Seal. This partly explains the Qing Emperors' obsession with creating numerous imperial seals, in order to reduce the significance of the Heirloom Seal.


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Recent Developments

In recent years, several seals have been claimed to be the lost Heirloom Seal. However, none of these claims have been confirmed by experts. In at least one case, the seal concerned was found to be a personal seal of an Emperor, rather than the Heirloom Imperial Seal.

Dear Friends,
I need to know, if possible, about the followed imperial seals.
In Wang Guo Wei`s epilogue to the “Meng Da Bei Lu” I have read that in the 14-th year of Jia Ding (1221AD), Mongols presented 2 emperor seals ( Huang Di Gong Yin Tian Ming Zhi Bao) to the Song court.

Russian Orientalist Munkuev based on other contemporary sources had commented this fact as follows: during the Jing Kang period (1126AD), jurchens captured 14 emperor seals. The seals presented by the Mongols was 2 seals from those 14, captured by jurchens. One of them was made in the 3-rd year of Yuan Fu (1100AD), while another one was made in the 1-st year of Jing Kang (1126AD).

As I recollect, in the first half of the XIII century there was about 18 emperor seals known to exist. I need to know as much as possible about these seals, including their names and inscriptions. I will be very thankful to anyone who will shed a bit of light on these questions.

I've heard a version that mentioned the seal was lost when the last emperor of Southern Song was chased by the Mongols to the south and a loyal aide of the Emperor brought with him the Seal and the kid emperor and they both jumped to the sea thus losing the Seal. It was also mentioned that the Seal would be somewhere in the bottom of the South China Sea now. Not sure about the accuracy of this version.

There was probably an imperial seal somewhere on the ship, and it would then have ended up in the Bay of Guangzhou - although silting in the Pearl River Delta has now shrunk the Bay so much that any such seal would be buried underground in the vicinity of the city of Xinhui, and not in the South China Sea. But there is no possibility that it was even the imperial seal of Southern Song, since that seal was handed over to Khubilai Khan when the Song imperial court surrendered to him at Hangzhou in 1276. Nor was the imperial seal of Southern Song the same seal as that of Northern Song, since the Jurchen got that one in 1127. The imperial seal of Northern Song was not the imperial seal of Tang, since Li Congke supposedly burned that one when he killed himself. Lastly, the imperial seal of Tang may not even be the original imperial seal of Han, if it was already lost or destroyed sometime between Han and Tang.

Hello

The link provided is broken.

Could someone check the link,provide an up to date link or point me to a site that looks in detail at the many theories?

I am researching the Heirloom Seal of the Realm and that is not an easy task

Thank you

Keith

(Here follows the original forum posting)


Grand Tutor (Taifu 太傅)


Group: Entry Scholar (Xiucai)
Posts: 362
Joined: 28-April 06
Member No.: 2,996



I found this article from website.
http://www.mongolia800.mn/eng/content/view/157/43/

Dear Novus,

Kindly remember to quote the source next time. I'll do it for you this time......
http://www.ibiblio.org/chineseculture/cont...rts-c01s04.html

I can't seem to find any pictures of the Heirloom Seal, as probably it was destroyed long ago and no pictures were taken.