picture of a quan zhou shao-lin monk. he's the only one in quan zhou shao-lin temple who can use one finger to support himself.

Um thats not possible the finger cannot support that much weight. Even if you could balence and you had the muslce to keep yourself up I'm sure the bone would just crack and fracture under such weight.

You obviously don't understand Qigong 氣功 / 气功

Actually, Liu Ce, it is possible, as are many other things that many people must actually see before accepting that there is the slightest of possibilities that it can happen...

How long does that monk hold that position? A few seconds, minutes, or even longer...?

That's the one finger kungfu..it's possible for that. Qigong has its part to play..

ok sorry for not beleaving but can some prove to me that this is posible how can it.

The picture you saw above is a good proof the one-finger kungfu.

quan zhou shao-lin, also known as "south shaolin".

he practiced for 6-7 years to use two fingers. B)
he worked in the temple at day time, practiced at night time. i think hard work can pay off.
he only used his feet to balance himself.

two fingers:

two fingers:


btw, to answer Gweilo's question, i went to check the news. said for the two fingers, he could support himself for two minutes easily.

WOW :blink: :ph43r:

That is a Dragonball master I should say ;)

Well Liu Ce it is possible, in my High School there is a class were they emphasize the strengthen of roman columns, and there engineering in general. Each Group get 2 pieces of paper, and have to tear them in half, then make there own version of paper columns, the four columns hold up each corner of a text book, then we compete to see who's holds the most. The record is 23 texts books with the teacher sitting on top. And that’s just paper. One finger holds a lot, especially properly trained.

Notice all the picture of the Shaolin monk balancing are on or next to a wall this might be coincidence, but I think it this there to take some of the stress off the finger and to help balance.

Balancing maybe but I don't think it's supposed to help with the weight.

It's next to impossible to keep one balanced on a single finger. Lifting one's weight is another issue. :)

his two legs around the post actually creats a friction froce that reduces some of his gravtitional force. Also with practice he probably learned how to let the muscles take most of the strain, this way the bone will not be broken, and the force is shared by his muscles on the arm, back and probably even legs. This actually do sound like a good physics problem :o

btw does anyone practice any kind of kungfu, may it be taichi or any other kind?

to zelbest
actually, those pictures are not very good. in the article i read, he only used feet lightly touched the post to balance himself. he did not use legs.

wow.. that is really crazy. but im sure there must be a scientific explaination somewhere :ph43r:

There have been heated arguments on these one finger kong fu over the past decades...... many in the Kong Fu realms themself have raised some serious doubts on this too.....

But there is still much we do not know or assume we know about things that are not true........... for example scientist have only recently accepted the fact taht human can indeed control their own body heat through will power... (a chi gong/meditation concept known for thousands of years in China and many parts of the east) and through practice and training it is possible to push such abilities to extreme levels..... such as Tibetan monks have been proven to be able to sleep outside IN WINTER at temperture well below freezing point (this is winter in the high mountains of tibet we're talking about here...) wearing only light robes and a very thin blanket... conditions that would kill normal man in under a hour they can sleep a whole night without suffering any physical problems.

I've heard many legends about martial art.

One of them was that they can push air such that you can take an opponents a$$ 10 meters away.

Can these monks do that?

according to north shaolin temple newly released marshal art secrets, they can do that. but they have to practice over 20-30 years.
but i don't think it's real.

Dang...2 finger pushups, 1 finger stand...
I think it is really possible to train your body to the extremes. I myself can testify to that. 8 months ago I can't even do 30 pushups in one go, but with 2 practices everyday, I am now doing 95 pushup in one go. The human body is actually really tough, and a lot of it has to do with the mind as well.

As for the Qigong, I think it is an art of controlled breathing that prevents you from getting overexhausted and wasting energy in inefficient breathing...I am not too sure on martial arts, but I would like to practice it when I have more time...

Actually there are lots of secret techniques in chinese martial arts.And there are 72 types of internal powers.But there is no human being capable of mastering even only 2 or 3 types of those internal powers.If one martial artist can combine his nei gong with his qi gong then he can hit people even if they're a few metres away from him.One example would be Li-luoneng the greatest xing yi boxer.It is said that all of his opponents that challenge were badly beaten by him even though they were a few metres away.There are quite a lot of ancient chinese martial arts masters that can do this.Many of them were not from shaolin temple. Most were probably wandering taoist priest or some warriors.

i don't think people can hit others without touching, novels and TV are quite different from the real world. i don't think anyone proved they can do it.

*looks for any piano string*
*finds none*

I am positive that those monks weigh like 20 kilos and their hands are pure muscle :P

HAHA. Maybe the HSaolin Temple has some kind of a research facility and such conducting expiriments and operations on human volunteers to make a super human..j/k

wow i've only heard of monks liftin themselves with 2 fingers, never heard of just one. impressive

That really is amazing. But if you want to see just martial arts for fighting you should check out http://www.pridefc.com

I have a Chinese book which has photo of a Shaolin monk doing the two-finger headstand (er zhi chan, 二指禪 ), in the middle of open ground, with no external support at all.

Well, liu Ce it's possible, for those who know not much about ShaoLin KungFu.
what you saw in the pic is called Yizhichan. (一指蝉). the hardest part of ShaoLin KungFu, only elder monks allow to practice, and only few of them successed.

By the way, that took decades practice.

I going to find some clips to show the whole process.

I don't get what there is to believe or not? If they did it, and scienctisits are there to confirm it, its proven, why the rubbish about all the secrecy?
I do a type of martial art called Yi Li, which is a combination of tai Ji, Xing yi and Bagua. My teacher is from malasia and he have beaten tai boxers from thai land in full contact before.

Can the monks float like they did in the movies with Qi Gong?

I don't think so, the flying and floating things are fictional, just like peter pan can fly in Western fantasy.



I read it somewhere Kungfu is originally from India. I love martial arts movies.

What I believe the movies try to portray when they have monks flying and floating and whatnot, is what in the martial art circles is refered to as 'light skills'. Having this attribute is one of the very by-products of diligent hei gung (qigong) training.


DRleungjan

You are only half correct kungfu is Chinese invention but "Shaolin kungfu" is brought to China by a monk called Damo from India.

Also the one finger kungfu is real, I saw it with my own eyes. It was last summer when I went to Taipei, Taiwan in June and around twenty Shaolin monks went and performed there. That show was called "禪武不二" (roughly: Zen and martial arts no difference) and they had a so-so storyline of a story of vengence but the kungfu was amazing. The Shaolin monks have their 鐵頭功 "iron head" and even 輕功 (yes one of them just jumped and reached 5 meters height by foot). I also saw the one finger thing, although the guy only did it for 10 seconds, but yes he balanced himself with just one finger and his finger held.

If this is real, the monks then should be able to punch holes through very hard objects with their finger. I remember seeing a monk once doing a demonstration, drilling his index finger through a piece of Brick!

I must say i have my doubts about Qi Gong. No one seems to be able to explain what Qi Gong really is.

that's amazing!!!! omg.

Pls be real folks; the current world high jump record is not even reached 2.5 m yet (2.48 m to be exact); pls don't tell me the PRC gov't wouldn't want to haul in a gold medal regarding this venue and other open competitive track & field records!

The one finger stand is very real so are many kung fu stunts. The technique in one finger stand requires serious discipline training the body has to be light and the hands, wrist, joints and shoulders strong enough to support the body. The angle of the stand helps because the entire body weight is concentrated in one line. Just like trying to balance a pole in one finger you will try to keep that pole straight and balance the same concept applies in one finger stand, qi gong breathing helps maintain your breathing in order to balance yourself up.



This is kung fu, and basically that is what kung fu means which is outstanding skill, extraordinary skill or excellent skill. The human body can achieve extraordinary things when properly train and develop just like the human mind; our mind is so complex and intricate that humans were able to create and invent great things like space craft, submarines, electricity, wireless communication, great medicines, atomic bomb and many more. These stuffs are things that humans thousand of years ago or animals could not have been able to create and accomplish.



Another, great kung fu skill that is shown only on movies is the “ flying chopsticks” in reality, a skill kung fu fighter can throw chopsticks ( traditional ones made of wood or hard plastic or the ones were available before the disposable chop sticks were made that are about 12 inches long ) within five feet of its target with the chop stick capacity can penetrate a ½ inch plywood.



The one finger stand is does not involve magic tricks it involves skill techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Wp1RCfuBI

Though at this point, the finger stands, qing gong, etc are not really martial arts any more, but performance arts that are simply signs of good conditioning. While good parlour tricks, it gets sad when that's what "real Chinese Kung Fu" is identified with.

Same with thrown chopsticks; of marginal fighting value, but sadly National Geo decided to somehow list it as more deadly than mainstream weapons as swords, polearms, and crossbows. :/

I would disagree, the one finger stand is not only about parlour tricks maybe your understanding of real kung fu is something like what we see in today's MMA, UFC or western standard interpretation of martial art fighting which in no doubt those are kung fu or martial arts as well. But the one finger stand aside from being an excellent kung fu skill it is also use as a means to strengthen the fingers that are use in thrusting targetting soft spots of the body that can casue serious internal damage. Having strong finger like that especially from someone who trains in martial arts and not on circus can have an execent gripping power that are use in ju jit su, grappling or chin na ( joint manipulation ). Hand stand, push ups, or one finger stand are all part of conditioning the joints, tendons, ligaments, joints, and muscle structures that are esential in martial fighting.

Just like board breaking ( real boards no tthose exhibition breakable boards ) or brick breaking to some it is a circus or a parlour game but to those who understand what martial art is and to those who train to break boards so that their hands can be so deadly that with one single strike they will be able to smash or break their attackers arm or bones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMXvS-1cLBU...ated&search=

That one is absolutely for show.


The chopstick throwing is use on close quarter fighting that are capable of severing arteries or incapacitating enemies such as targetting their eyeballs or soft spots of the body such as the neck.

Real martial art or kung fu is to develop the empty hands into a deadly weapon and that was one major reason why martial art was develop it was to allow the people who have been banned by oppressive goverment to carry weapons to protect and defend themselves.

Actually, brick breaking and board breaking is said to be extremely damaging to the body and extremely bad in the long term, according to many internal art schools. I forgot which master it was who said this, but he was one who had switched from external to Baji or Bagua and quite regretted spending his youth breaking things, for it proved harmful to him. An old red guard I know who was an extremely capable fighter in his youth now regrets his time spent fighting and breaking things as well, as he now suffers from severe health problems and joint pain.

And you may be amazed that I do not base my paradigms on watching too much UFC, or "western interpretations". I base it off of the words and experience of an experienced internal MA instructor. Bone-breaking does not necessitate board breaking training, and it's clear there are much smarter ways to break bones and joints through effective qin na than any sort of brick-breaking techniques. I can attest to this. Neither does point striking necessitate the use of the one finger stand training; my own instructor in the past was able to strike a point with a measured 60kg of force, and he once managed to strike a challenger on a meridian and drop him to the ground immediately following the challenge.

The chopstick throwing still strikes me as being of dubious utility, and I've certainly heard claims to the following but it sounds more like it's out of some Wuxia Xiaoshuo than from real life experience. Anyways, I haven't seen any documentation on the effective use of this, and a lot of more ardent students of martial arts scoff at it.

While I am not sure of the training regimens of these greats, I can ask for you; though I'm fairly certain it doesn't involve the one finger stand. (The finger stand I'm uncertain of; but all of my sources agree that prolonged board and brick breaking is inadvisable.) Note I myself (and I would think just about everyone else on the forum) are not qualified masters or experts), so our opinions (as well as the one above) are probably moot conjecture until approved. I'll ask this weekend (or next) on all of these and see what sort of response I get.

When training in strike conditioning it is very important to know how to train properly the reason why there are those who suffer long term damage is because they failed to follow proper training regiment. Breaking or striking conditioning is not as easy as just striking your hands or fist on hard objects, the nerves after training will be bruised, swollen or warm it is imperative not to apply the wrong ointment or wash your hands in water especially cold water that will seriously cause undue stress to the nerves. Strike conditioning helps develop the fist to strike at hard part sof the human body such as bones in the chest, ribs, jaws, and skull. A poor conditon striker will hurt or injured their fist if they hit any of those hard parts that is where chin na, ju jit su, grappling or wrestling comes in these techniques are design to subdue opponents without the risk of breaking your own fist.



No doubt tehre are easier ways to break bones or dislocate joints without under going breaking conditioning. The first and most natural instinct in fighting is the use of our arms, fist and legs. Punching is the most natural thing to do whether one is a train fighter or not. The ability to deliver a powerful punch is essential in order to survive and that can happen better if one does not hurt themselves by breaking their fist because they hit teh jaw or the skull.

Boxers are clear example, they have great punching power and they can knock a person down with one blow at the same time they can also easily hurt or break their fist when they hit solid bones. That is why boxers wrap their fist to prevent it from getting injured. Kung fu training is limitless, one can choose to train up to a certain point others will train to near super human skill.

Chopstick throwing is found in many wu xia comics because authors base it on reality. There are now many extreme kung fu training that are not being practice or are extinct that is why majority of kung fu that we see are mostly concentrated on forms and wu shu. I for one know that it is an effective tool because my late master was an excellent traditional kung fu master and it was in him that I witness real kung fu.

Another advantage of a well condition fingers is that it develop great gripping ability that is use in chin na or joint manipulation in gripping preventing your opponent from escaping or gripping to seriously damage nerves. The Eagle Claw concept of kung fu is base on developing strong gripping ability.

Just like back in the 60s when most of the world knew very little about kung fu until Bruce Lee showed up. There are still many things about kung fu, and kung fu was one big factor why ancient China was mightier than the West.

There are many things in martial arts that will make an ordinary person scratch their heads in disbelief just like scentist make lay people like me scratch my head in wonders of their discoveries.........these people are really gifted.

Actually, I believe you're both wrong. Kung fu predates the introduction of Mahayana Buddhism in the 5th, 6th century...first scripts refering to it dates all the way back to Daoism of 5th Century BCE. Indian martial arts is called Also, Shaolin kung fu wasn't created by Damo/Bodhidharma...Bodhidharma introduced Mahayana Buddhism...which later + Daoism, etc formed the basis for Zen Buddhism. So Buddhism greatly influenced kung fu, but kung fu predates Buddhism in East Asia.



btw, breaking arts and etc is known as "hard body training" - "wolf's law" - the more stress you apply to your bones and muscles, the stronger they become over time

Chinese martial masters already knew that they just don't call it "woldf's law".

Damo only introduced a part of kung fu which is the deep breathing exercise, later kung fu practitioners will expand this to develop " iron body " by combining deep breathing "qi gong" and muscle tensioning, this exercise will develop certain parts of the body especially areas with large muscle mass the ability to take and absorb strong hit and pain resistance. Also, the breathing is use to develop lighting strikes or what Bruce lee will term it as one inch strike.

Damo's main intention was not to develop a fighting form but it was to develop an exercise form that would allow monks to perform or conduct their meditation better without falling asleep.

I believe the flying and floating are just myths. I believe qing gong is just a way for the person to move like they could fly or float. They still need to follow the physical laws.

My father had learned qing gong in his youth. He told me that one of the training method was to fill a big Chinese water jar with water. These water jars are usually very big with thick walls. An adult can fall in and drown in it. Then, the person in training will walk around the rim of the water jar to practice his balance. As time goes on, the master will take the water out of the water jar one bucket by one bucket. Eventually, the student needs to be able to walk around the rim of the water jar without tipping it over or fall off himself.

Another method was also recorded by many martial artist around late Qing and early republic era (around early 20th cenury). The student will tie on iron sheets around his feet. Then, he would stand in a hole on the ground and try to jump out of it without bending his knees. According to some people, this training would benefit by practicing nei gong (inner gong fu).

I am not sure nei gong is the same as qigong. Some people in recent years made it out like it is the same, but I have my doubt. According to some people, practicing nei gong could make your body become light and easier to control, so you could manage more difficult physical movements. You could also have more strength than your outward appearance. According to a famous author in Taiwan who was a Qing nobility, he said that he had seen, in his youth, an old lady who was very short and very skinny, but others told him that she was one of the famous martial artist in the Northern China at the time. In my impression, qigong practician were always very muscular. I may be wrong, or they mix the term qigong and neigong nowadays.

My father had learned a form of nei gong, but his master died when he was 12 or so. When his master was dying (in his 90's), the master could not control his qi and it was going everywhere in his body, so the master died very painfully. After my father saw it, he decided he would not continue the same path, so he gave it up. I heard there were many different school of nei gong. The best kinds would not have this problem, but the masters of those schools do not easily accept students. My father and I believed that the nei gong he learned is close to the so-call qi gong of today, so I also stayed away from qi gong.

About climbing the walls, I have read some accounts about that. A few martial artist said that they did need to do two things to climb that wall. They needed to run toward the wall from a little distance away and jump. Then, they needed to use the unevenness of the wall as a stepping point to get them on top or over the wall. I also saw on TV an interview of a famous Hong Kong martial art movie star Tan Dao Liang. He was the direct descendent of the martial art family, Tan legs. He showed on TV the famous Tan Legs' method of climbing walls. He had two walls fairly close together, and he used splitting legs method and climbed straight up for at least 5 feet. I thought he could keep going, but that was about close to the top of the walls they set up. Later, he came to U.S. and set up a chain of martial art schools.

With the ability to balance well and climb walls and jump, the people who learned Chinese qing gong could walk all over other people's roof top with no problems.