I don't know if this has been stressed before but it seems that the Ancient Chinese (as far as the Shang Dynasty) knew about animals that never existed in the Central Plains (or they no longer exist). 象 is one example because as far as I know, elephants don't/didn't roam the Central Plains. The closest elephant-bearing region is inhabited by the southern tribes. These tribes came from the same area as the people of Meng Huo's kingdom, which existed during the three knigdoms period.
So how did the Shang know about elephants? Did elephants exist in the areas that Shang ruled? Or did Shang come into contact with the southern tribes and some Shang merchants actually caught a glimpse of these magnificent beasts?
Full Version: 象 (xiang) elephant
QUOTE(tongyan @ Aug 16 2005, 02:50 AM)
I don't know if this has been stressed before but it seems that the Ancient Chinese (as far as the Shang Dynasty) knew about animals that never existed in the Central Plains (or they no longer exist). 象 is one example because as far as I know, elephants don't/didn't roam the Central Plains. The closest elephant-bearing region is inhabited by the southern tribes. These tribes came from the same area as the people of Meng Huo's kingdom, which existed during the three knigdoms period.
So how did the Shang know about elephants? Did elephants exist in the areas that Shang ruled? Or did Shang come into contact with the southern tribes and some Shang merchants actually caught a glimpse of these magnificent beasts?
So how did the Shang know about elephants? Did elephants exist in the areas that Shang ruled? Or did Shang come into contact with the southern tribes and some Shang merchants actually caught a glimpse of these magnificent beasts?
[snapback]4748958[/snapback]
Elephants were around in the central plains. Also were lions. Tigers were almost every where. Panda once roamed the entire asian continent.
Read this: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=297
However, by the Age of Fragmentation it seems clear that elephants and rhinoceros were very rare in the south. If an elephant appeared near Nanjing, or even barged into the palace, it was big news. And southern kingdoms like Funan would send elephants and rhinos as tribute to the Southern Dynasties precisely because they were rare there.
However, by the Age of Fragmentation it seems clear that elephants and rhinoceros were very rare in the south. If an elephant appeared near Nanjing, or even barged into the palace, it was big news. And southern kingdoms like Funan would send elephants and rhinos as tribute to the Southern Dynasties precisely because they were rare there.
Elephants existed in areas ruled by the Shang.
I think this is the Shang pictographic representation for elephant:
I think this is the Shang pictographic representation for elephant:
QUOTE(DaMo @ Aug 17 2005, 04:59 AM)
Elephants existed in areas ruled by the Shang.
I think this is the Shang pictographic representation for elephant:
I think this is the Shang pictographic representation for elephant:
[snapback]4749327[/snapback]
Is there like archaelogical evidence that elephants existed in the areas ruled by Shang?
Not that I claim to know anything about elephants but I always thought elephants thrived only in tropical/sub-tropical areas. To me, Hebei and Henan (roughly the regions ruled by the Shang) are located too far north to have tropical climates.
Then again, Hannibal used elephants.
The climate of China has changed a lot through history. Before the late Eastern Han, the Henan region was tropical enough to have elephants, rhinos, tapirs, and large stands of bamboo. The cooling down took place in the Three Kingdoms and Age of Fragmentation.
This famous drinking cup from Fu Hao's tomb was made from elephant tusk ivory inlaid with turquoise.
I read somewhere that 牙 originally meant only tusk, ivory, while the tooth was 齿. Also said in the article that 牙 was created just because of Southern people's gift (of elephant).
During Shang dynasty, there were lots of elephants..
Elephants in China
Four thousand years ago there were elephants in the area that was later to become Beijing and in most of the rest of what was later to be China (Elvin 10, Note 1)
In his book “Retreat of the Elephants”, Mark Elvin wrote:
1. Climate change
2. War/direct competition with humans, which included competition for water, land, food,
and they were hunted for profit and to increase security.
3. Deforestation, which is related to both competition for land and, in some instances,
ensuring security
1. Climate Change
Simply put, elephants do not resist cold well and migrated to a warmer climate when the climate of northern China cooled down. This is definitely not the only reason for their migration and geographical population loss, which can be explained by human interference.
2. War/direct competition with humans.
The human need to cultivate land and the elephants need for space and food were directly in competition with each other and invariably led to a humans vs. elephants war. This war can be exemplified by Menicus’ account of the Duke of Zhou:
This war between humans and elephants was fought over water, land, food, profit, and security.
Water: Humans tend to build homes near water sources. They need the water for drinking, sanitation, and to irrigate their crops. They also use the water for transportation. Elephants also need water to drink, wash, and to cool themselves down. This mutual need led to conflict. (Elvin 11)
Land: Humans tend to use a lot of land for agriculture and to build cities/habitats. Elephants also require lots of land and according to Elvin, they “need a warm and moist environment, with steep slopes, in which they can avoid direct sunlight and move around easily”, so when there is competition for this moist, flat land, conflict ensues (11). This competition for land is closely tied to the need for food, water, forests, and security and will be further emphasized in these areas.
Food: Humans need large crops to feed themselves, especially if they are going to feed those who don’t farm their own food. The problem is keeping elephants away from this “free food”. In 1171 in Chaozhou, “several hundred wild elephants devoured the harvest. The farmers put pit traps in their fields. Since the elephants were unable to eat, they led their herd to encircle carts and horses traveling on the roads. Grain was collected to feed them, after which they went away” (Elvin 13, Note 13)
Elephants trample, plunder, and generally wreak havoc on crops, which, in the eyes of farmers, merits the elephants’ extermination.
Security: As a group, elephants are not very dangerous, but single, rogue elephants can be. As on writer observed in the 11th century:
Elephants threatened humans’ security by threatening them physically and by destroying their crops. Ironically, deforestation can be used as a weapon against Elephants, which also serves the dual purpose of clearing more land for crops. Deforestation is also the last reason discussed here that explains the absence of elephants in contemporary China (except around the Burma border).
Profit: The need for security and the possibility for making money from hunting elephants made hunting elephants attractive. Here’s an account of humans hunting elephants for their tusks in Zhangzhou during the late 12th century:
3. Deforestation
In attempts to maintain security, villagers killed elephants by cutting down trees, thereby forcing elephants’ exposure to sunlight. A Ming-dynasty author describes this for the county of Hepu, in the Southwest, on the coast:
Elvin notes that “elephants could not survive without tree cover, and its destruction implied their departure (12).
Compounding this habitat loss and climate change, elephants have difficulty repopulating their diminishing numbers. Elephants reproduce slowly, having a gestation period of about 18 months. And according to Elvin, elephants “in spite of their exceptional intelligence and memory, do they adapt easily to altered environments” (12). So instead of adapting, they move—in this case, to Burma.
Also, when I get back home in a few days, I'll upload an image that details the elephants' chronological retreat from Northeast China to Southwest China.
___________________________________________
Source:
Elvin, Mark. “The Retreat of the Elephants: An environmental history of China.” Yale University Press: New Haven, 2004.
Notes:
1. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.”
2. For a picture of one of the finds of tusks at Sanxingdui, in the Shu kingdom that existed as part of Sichuan at the same time as the Later Shang, see Liu Yang and E. Capon, “Masks of Mystery: Ancient Chinese Bronzes from Sanxingdui.”
3. The stomach shells of turtles or shoulder blades of oxen on which the replies to oracular inquiries were recorded in Shang times.
5. J. Legge, “The Works of Menicus, vol. 2.”
8. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 192.
11. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 195.
13. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 192.
15. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 192
Four thousand years ago there were elephants in the area that was later to become Beijing and in most of the rest of what was later to be China (Elvin 10, Note 1)
In his book “Retreat of the Elephants”, Mark Elvin wrote:
QUOTE
“That elephants were abundant in the Northeast, Northwest, and West during the archaic age is clear from the elephant bones found in Shang and Shu archeological sites (Note 2), from the cast bronze elephants of the time, and from records on oracle bones (Note 3) that mention elephants being sacrificed to the Southwest.” (Elvin 10)
The elephants were depopulated or migrated away from this area for several reasons. 1. Climate change
2. War/direct competition with humans, which included competition for water, land, food,
and they were hunted for profit and to increase security.
3. Deforestation, which is related to both competition for land and, in some instances,
ensuring security
1. Climate Change
Simply put, elephants do not resist cold well and migrated to a warmer climate when the climate of northern China cooled down. This is definitely not the only reason for their migration and geographical population loss, which can be explained by human interference.
2. War/direct competition with humans.
The human need to cultivate land and the elephants need for space and food were directly in competition with each other and invariably led to a humans vs. elephants war. This war can be exemplified by Menicus’ account of the Duke of Zhou:
QUOTE
“After the sage-rulers Yao and Shun had passed away, the way of the sages fell into decay. Oppressive monarchs . . . abandoned the farmland to make it into gardens and hunting enclosures, and as a result the people could not get food or clothes. . . . As the gardens and hunting enclosures, ponds, lakes, thickets, and swamps became numerous, the birds and the beasts moved in. By the reign of Zhou [the ‘evil’ last sovereign of the Shang dynasty], the world was once again in great disorder. The Duke of Zhou assisted King Wu of the Zhou dynasty to destroy Zhou. . . . He drove the tigers, leopards, rhinoceroses, and elephants far away, and the world was greatly delighted.” (Elvin 11, Note 5)
This war between humans and elephants was fought over water, land, food, profit, and security.
Water: Humans tend to build homes near water sources. They need the water for drinking, sanitation, and to irrigate their crops. They also use the water for transportation. Elephants also need water to drink, wash, and to cool themselves down. This mutual need led to conflict. (Elvin 11)
Land: Humans tend to use a lot of land for agriculture and to build cities/habitats. Elephants also require lots of land and according to Elvin, they “need a warm and moist environment, with steep slopes, in which they can avoid direct sunlight and move around easily”, so when there is competition for this moist, flat land, conflict ensues (11). This competition for land is closely tied to the need for food, water, forests, and security and will be further emphasized in these areas.
Food: Humans need large crops to feed themselves, especially if they are going to feed those who don’t farm their own food. The problem is keeping elephants away from this “free food”. In 1171 in Chaozhou, “several hundred wild elephants devoured the harvest. The farmers put pit traps in their fields. Since the elephants were unable to eat, they led their herd to encircle carts and horses traveling on the roads. Grain was collected to feed them, after which they went away” (Elvin 13, Note 13)
Elephants trample, plunder, and generally wreak havoc on crops, which, in the eyes of farmers, merits the elephants’ extermination.
Security: As a group, elephants are not very dangerous, but single, rogue elephants can be. As on writer observed in the 11th century:
QUOTE
“There were formerly numerous elephants in the territory of Zhangzhou [in the Southeast], which is next door to Chaoyang [in the Far South]. They commonly formed herds of somewhat more than ten, but caused no harm. Only if a solitary elephant met someone would he pursue him, and trample on him till his bones and flesh were pulverized, before making off.” (Elvin 11, Note 8)
Elephants threatened humans’ security by threatening them physically and by destroying their crops. Ironically, deforestation can be used as a weapon against Elephants, which also serves the dual purpose of clearing more land for crops. Deforestation is also the last reason discussed here that explains the absence of elephants in contemporary China (except around the Burma border).
Profit: The need for security and the possibility for making money from hunting elephants made hunting elephants attractive. Here’s an account of humans hunting elephants for their tusks in Zhangzhou during the late 12th century:
QUOTE
“Many of the common folk who won their living among the mountain gorges had their crops trampled on or eaten by elephants. Some were capable of snaring pits with crossbows and arrows, and were happy to have thus rid themselves of the damage; but when the officials demanded that they pay in the feet and the tusks as a tax, this was too much for them. The common people thereafter preferred to endure damage from the elephants and did not venture to kill them.
Just recently, when some of them have presented tusks, the prefect has returned them. He has moreover given orders that families who kill elephants in the future can keep the tusks for themselves. Since the people know how to put an end to the harm caused by elephants, changes will be seen in the deep forests and the spreading footslopes of the hills, and the crops will flourish.” (Elvin 14, Note 15)
These tusks were used for ivory artifacts, like the tablets on which officials placed their papers for writing during imperial audiences.Just recently, when some of them have presented tusks, the prefect has returned them. He has moreover given orders that families who kill elephants in the future can keep the tusks for themselves. Since the people know how to put an end to the harm caused by elephants, changes will be seen in the deep forests and the spreading footslopes of the hills, and the crops will flourish.” (Elvin 14, Note 15)
3. Deforestation
In attempts to maintain security, villagers killed elephants by cutting down trees, thereby forcing elephants’ exposure to sunlight. A Ming-dynasty author describes this for the county of Hepu, in the Southwest, on the coast:
QUOTE
“In 1547 a mob of elephants trampled down the common people’s harvests at Mount Dalian. When chased, they refused to move off. The prefect. . . induced the most prominent people in the rural district to lead the inhabitants in catching them. Before they began, they fashioned connected tree trunks into portable barricades. Each of these was ten feet in length and needed several men to lift. They then waited until the herd of elephants was hidden behind a small hill, and at once surrounded them on all sides with the barricades, this being done in the twinkling of an eye. Outside the barricades they made a deep ditch, and encircled it with people holding bows, arrows, and long spears. The order was given not to let the elephants smash through the barricades and get away. People were also told to wait for a moment when they could cut down the trees that grew within the barricades, so the herd could be attacked by the heat of the midday sun. Elephants are afraid of heat; and in three or four days all of them were dead.” (13, Note 11)
Elvin notes that “elephants could not survive without tree cover, and its destruction implied their departure (12).
Compounding this habitat loss and climate change, elephants have difficulty repopulating their diminishing numbers. Elephants reproduce slowly, having a gestation period of about 18 months. And according to Elvin, elephants “in spite of their exceptional intelligence and memory, do they adapt easily to altered environments” (12). So instead of adapting, they move—in this case, to Burma.
Also, when I get back home in a few days, I'll upload an image that details the elephants' chronological retreat from Northeast China to Southwest China.
___________________________________________
Source:
Elvin, Mark. “The Retreat of the Elephants: An environmental history of China.” Yale University Press: New Haven, 2004.
Notes:
1. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.”
2. For a picture of one of the finds of tusks at Sanxingdui, in the Shu kingdom that existed as part of Sichuan at the same time as the Later Shang, see Liu Yang and E. Capon, “Masks of Mystery: Ancient Chinese Bronzes from Sanxingdui.”
3. The stomach shells of turtles or shoulder blades of oxen on which the replies to oracular inquiries were recorded in Shang times.
5. J. Legge, “The Works of Menicus, vol. 2.”
8. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 192.
11. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 195.
13. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 192.
15. Wen Hauran et a., “Zhongguo lishi shiqi zhiwu yu dongwu bianqian yanjiu.” P. 192
Excellent article Publius. The image of an Elephant does not fit well with the image of China. I have a hard time imagining an elephant walking around next to a road of Chinese merchants...
I've returned this thread to the General Discussion thread because it explains the location and presence of elephants in Chinese history more than the etymological history of the word "xiang".
And ZZT, there are accounts of elephants being used as War elephants and as a mode of transportation in China, though I believe that these are extreme cases and that elephants were generally seen as a pest and not as an asset.
And ZZT, there are accounts of elephants being used as War elephants and as a mode of transportation in China, though I believe that these are extreme cases and that elephants were generally seen as a pest and not as an asset.
What about the Chinese Chess character "Xiang"? Can anyone explain more about it in detail to me? Please and Thanks.
The character 為 is a person holding an elephant, meaning "able".
as for elephant in the chess... chess is an Arabian invention that didn't reach Centeral Planes after Tang dynasty. Therefore, the elephant probably comes from Indian/SEA influence???
as for elephant in the chess... chess is an Arabian invention that didn't reach Centeral Planes after Tang dynasty. Therefore, the elephant probably comes from Indian/SEA influence???
The character for elephant is one of the most easily recognizable pictographic representation of a word.
It has been used since Shang times in the form of the oracle bone script, through the bronzeware script of the Zhou dynasty (Damo's picture is actually bronzeware script), to the the small seal script of the Qin to modern writing.
Just imaging the character turned on its side, and out can easily make out the trunk, tail and 4 legs.
The oracle bone scripts also have various representations of the the elephant (with some minor variations in the shape of the heads), but they are all of them are turned on its side, unlike the bronzeware script, which shows the elephant standing up.
Elephants indeed lived in China. Excavations from the Sanxingdui site in Sichuan (1300BC) turned up over 100 pieces of elephant tusks, some with their lower jaws still attached to them.
It has been used since Shang times in the form of the oracle bone script, through the bronzeware script of the Zhou dynasty (Damo's picture is actually bronzeware script), to the the small seal script of the Qin to modern writing.
Just imaging the character turned on its side, and out can easily make out the trunk, tail and 4 legs.
The oracle bone scripts also have various representations of the the elephant (with some minor variations in the shape of the heads), but they are all of them are turned on its side, unlike the bronzeware script, which shows the elephant standing up.
Elephants indeed lived in China. Excavations from the Sanxingdui site in Sichuan (1300BC) turned up over 100 pieces of elephant tusks, some with their lower jaws still attached to them.
QUOTE(shawn @ Jan 22 2007, 08:56 PM) [snapback]4872860[/snapback]
What about the Chinese Chess character "Xiang"? Can anyone explain more about it in detail to me? Please and Thanks.
"Xiang" in Chinese Chess refers to "Image".
In fact, "Xiang" is used in Yi Jing as a way to convey the message across, both to the shaman and the diviner.
The ancient shaman in the Middle Kingdom imbues into the "image" of time and space to derive meanings to a situation, what we call today as divination. In old times, divination is a way of life. People live in accord to the mandate of heaven. This requires a need to read the "signs" conveyed by the heaven. The signs are received in the form of "xiang", thru which a reading is made and the mandate is carried out.
I know, it sounds weird. But in reality ... it is not.
It is a lost knowledge ...
The Chinese Chess (Xiangqi) is a form of simulation tool used in old times to reflect the deployment of military resources in a war.
(1) As each resource presents certain limitations in real life, these limitation are translated into certain rule and regulation in the game which reflects the "xiang" of each application and limitation.
(2) The setting of the game also reflects the "xiang" of real life war. For instance, the "pawn" or "soldier" at the frontline and the marshall residing at the back.
(3) There are two chess-piece of "Xiang" for each confronting side. If you are well-versed in Xiangqi, you will find the "Xiang-piece" is important in eluding the enemy, defeating a plot to capture the "marshall" or at least delaying the end of a game.
...
What the "xiang" really represents in the game, you tell ...
(1) As each resource presents certain limitations in real life, these limitation are translated into certain rule and regulation in the game which reflects the "xiang" of each application and limitation.
(2) The setting of the game also reflects the "xiang" of real life war. For instance, the "pawn" or "soldier" at the frontline and the marshall residing at the back.
(3) There are two chess-piece of "Xiang" for each confronting side. If you are well-versed in Xiangqi, you will find the "Xiang-piece" is important in eluding the enemy, defeating a plot to capture the "marshall" or at least delaying the end of a game.
...
What the "xiang" really represents in the game, you tell ...
Here's the image I promised a while back. It's from page 10 of Elvin's Retreat of the Elephants and physically displays this south-western retreat away from China proper:
note: you have to click on it to really view it.
note: you have to click on it to really view it.
QUOTE(Publius @ Feb 12 2007, 10:20 AM) [snapback]4875607[/snapback]
Here's the image I promised a while back. It's from page 10 of Elvin's Retreat of the Elephants and physically displays this south-western retreat away from China proper:
note: you have to click on it to really view it.
note: you have to click on it to really view it.
great information.
I wonder, are those just elephants in general, or they included the Mammoth? Could the earliest character written to say Mammoth? Cause that'd be cool.
This chart and the book, for that matter, chronicle only the Asian Elephant (aka Indian Elephant). Asian Mammoths, I believe, became extinct during the last ice age and could not have been extant while written script was developed, though their fossils were definitely around...
Though early writers may have seen these fossils, they would have seen the real elephants living along the Huang He River 黄河.
Though early writers may have seen these fossils, they would have seen the real elephants living along the Huang He River 黄河.
QUOTE(naruwan @ Aug 16 2005, 11:55 AM) [snapback]4749054[/snapback]
Elephants were around in the central plains. Also were lions. Tigers were almost every where. Panda once roamed the entire asian continent.
I, too, believe that elephants were found on the central plains. We have evidence in several places: elephant tusks (real tusks) were found in both burial pits 1 and 2 of Sanxingdui (dating 11th-12th Century BCE); we have very life-like bronzes of elephants dating back to the Shang Dynasty (see a photo in Chen Wangheng's Chinese Bronzes, p. 117, of a bronze elephant found in Hunan Province), and there is a textual reference to the last elephant crossing the Yangtze going south from 1000 AD. If their tusks were used ritually, as appears with their discovery in the Sanxingdui pits, it is likely that they were widely hunted and probably exterminated over time like many of the other great beasts of history.
How is it that the elephant is not a significant animal in Chinese bestiaries, like the animals of the si ling, or the lion? Elephants don't even make it into the zodiac?
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