Francois,


1) American election result was "electoral college votes", i.e., 10 votes for California, 5 for Florida, 5 for Ohio, .... Twice, Bush lost the POPULAR VOTES. POPULAR VOTES were what over 50% of Americans really wanted for their president and the American foreign policies.

2) Francoise, you, as a white non-Chinese, should thank Bush and Cheney for what their foreign policies are about. What they are doing is to safeguard you and your descedants. And, me, as a Chinese, merely want to let the world and Chinese know what plots the powers had had against China, i.e., George Marshall's deliberate wrecking of China in 1940s and Winston Churchill's repeated manifestation of his wish for his whitemen's position in the "Far East and throughout the world".

3) You tried to get me some tags and labels. Not all people will see it that way. If you want to debate further, let's do it point by point. I have read enough about Winston Churchill, George Marshall, Harry Truman and etc to give you senetence by sentence quote to show people who the real 'racists' were.

Centuries ago , a majority of people thought that the earth was flat, this proves it was really flat ?


Since i'm partly european & partly asian, does this make me a sheer genius able to understand everything or a degenerate retarded B****** ?

If i understand what you say, SOME jewish families (the Sasoons, Kadoories,etc.) became rich with the opium trade , so ALL jews are a threat for China & ALL jews seek domination over others people ?

Please note that i use my Asian brain cells to talk to you since , following your logics, as a Chinese, you can't understand my european brain cells BTW , how can you understand Churchill & Truman white psychologies ?...

Dude, you're really funny, but i doubt it's intentional...

Well, not ALWAYS funny.

Mr LANJINGLING,

I could see a person to have empathy or sympathy with CHinese or not by judging what they talked about. What you talked about shows that you have NO identification with CHinese and NO empathy with Chinese.

I never said a few Jews trading opium would make their whole group a culprit. Though, this world is controlled by few in the high pyramid, financially and politically.

I already expounded how US election results had proven that Bush had lost popular votes, i.e., over 50% of Americans having objected Bush and whatever Bush foreign policies were about. Don't assume that I was picking the number of 50% at random.

This thread, as Yun said, had deviated away from Jew & Hakka. If you or Mr Francois want to continue on this path of deviation, please open up another thread.

For anyone who are stil interested in ascertaining the presence of ANCIENT Jews in China, check out http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/china.htm for "Are There Really Jews in China?" I read Sidney Shapiro and know it was like chasing phantom to look for the presence of ANCIENT Jews, or WHITE-capped Moslems/BLUE-capped Moslems, etc; and it would be ludicrous to put up a claim that Hakka is related to Jew or other Central Asias with high nose bridge.

I originally wrote the following on this sub-forum HERE!



Of course, what I wrote about the "People of the Book" is pure speculation. Also, I've read another source that says the Jurchen moved their capital to Kaifeng in 1161 and not 1157. LINK (PDF only) Either way, the jews would still have had to ask for permission to build their synagogue from the Jurchens.

The reason I am interested in the subject is because I am writing a book that is centered around an elderly Kaifeng jew who once served under Yue Fei in his youth.

I read in book about Christian history in China that during the 845 pogroms, Christianity and Zoroastrianism were looked at as “heretical forms” of Buddhism. Don’t you think it is possible that Christianity and Judaism were confused as the same religion? If you read about the meeting of the Jesuit Priest Matteo Ricci and the Jew Ai Tian (艾田) in 1605, you will see that there was some confusion over who was Christian and who was Jewish.

As I described in my previous post, Mr. Tiberiu Weiz has written a book about his new translation of the “Kaifeng Steles”. He believes the Jews were driven to the western regions of Tang China (in modern day Gansu province) during the 845 pogroms and then later “returned” to Song China at the request of the emperor who wanted to recruit foreign scholars. He believes this particular group of Jews split from the Jewish prophet Ezra during the 6th century BCE. In one chapter, he translates a Stele which details the Jews' religious practices. I can't remember any important dates as I don't have the book in front of me, but the Jews kneeled during their prayers. This is significant because after the Christians adopted kneeling, the Jews put a prohibition against it. He believes since these Jews were isolated from the main community, they never learned of the prohibition, which puts their arrival in China LONG before the Tang or Song dynasties. He even quotes from Han dynasty records about a General who was sent to expand the western borders of China in 108 BCE. During his journeys, he recorded seeing a large group of strangely clad foreigners. The description the general gives of the group’s leader is the exact dress of a Kohen (Jewish Priest). They wear a distinctive head-dress, girdle and a chest plate with jewels on it.

Just about every “oral history” I've read from every Jewish ethnicity throughout India, Burma, and China all say they came to China during the Han. But some of them say they were persecuted and later driven out of China to live in India and Burma. If you read each history, their tales are too strikingly similar to be a coincidence. HOWEVER, I read an account that one group of Asian Jews were forcibly converted to Islam in Afghanistan before they entered China. Any educated person can tell you that Islam did not come about until Circa 610 CE, so it would be impossible for this group to have arrived in China during the Han. I did some research (which I don’t have at hand right now) and found Arabs invaded Afghanistan in 652 CE. The Arabs were not defeated until many years later.

There is one possibility to explain the “Han Origin” story. I’ve always thought IF their tales were false, then they could have made up the story to better fit in with their Chinese neighbors. It would be a “My family has lived in China since the Han, so I’m as Chinese as you are” sort of thing. But, until it’s disproven, I’ll keep the Han theory because that is what is says on the Kaifeng Steles.

For anyone that is interested in the Chinese Jews, I have created a thread that discusses what hypotheticl martial arts they would have practiced and or created. Follow this link:

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19517

I am not sure why you think "blondeness is not found in Jews"? I have Jewish friends who are nature blond. Also, in WWII, many Jews in German controlled areas were able to escape Nazi persecutions because they were blonde haired and blue eyed and were not considered belong to the stereotype of Jews. I read in a few autobiographies written by Jews at that time. One of them was a maid in Hitler’s home for a few years, and no one knew she was a Jew. Her daughter was kidnapped by Nazi because she was the typical Aryan child – blond haired and blue eyed.

Several years ago, I read a news report in Los Angeles Times about a group of Jews built a retirement home in Shanghai close to the old Japanese prison for Jews in the WWII. When people asked them what were their motives, the followings were the paraphrase of their answers:

"We were refugees in Shanghai during the World War II. The Chinese people around us were very poor, but they shared everything they had with us. Therefore, we want to come back here (Shanghai) to build this retirement home close to where we lived so that our Chinese friends who had helped us would have a good place to live in their retirement."

I wonder what their "evil" intentions were.

I received Bishop William Charles White's "Chinese Jews" (1966) in the mail yesterday. It was the first "major" study of the community and it's people. My copy is a whopping 643 page reprint of the original 3 volume version from 1942. It must weigh a good two pounds! It has three sections: (1) History (2) Inscriptional (translations of the 3 Ming and Qing Dynasty stone monuments left by the Jews) (3) Genealogical and has people pictures of various Chinese Jews and artifacts throughout. I highly suggest anyone interested in the subject buy it. It cost me $75, which is SUPER cheap compared to the usually asking price! I have seen it anywhere from $150 - $400!

When I was a young girl, there was a Jewish couple who lived in the duplex that my grandmother lived in. I was quite close to the wife and looked forward to seeing her and he family as much as I did seeing my grandmother. One time she said she had something to show me and pulled out a box from her closet. She opened the box and there was a long blond braid of hair. She said "this was what my hair looked like when I was your age(12)", I was shocked not because it was blond, but I just had never thought of her as young or with anything but gray hair. She saw the look on my face and said, We can have blond hair too, it is really quite common. I was embarrassed, because my shock had not been a racist reaction, but just that of an innocent child. I knew she was Jewish but it had never occurred to me that she might think I could be biased after all the time we had spent together as I was growing up.

Evil intentions.. ?! Please don't say that... Don't stereotype please - don't be racist. When people are rich(any race) they have the means to construct buildings as in this case.

it's true that jewish people come in all colours lol Some have brown, some dark brown and blond... The European Jews are actually a mixture(originally) between the middle east people and the eastern europeans (most likely the slavic people), can someone confirm this?

I am writing a historical-Fiction novel centered around a German-Jew that comes to live in the Kaifeng Jewish community in Song Dynasty China. I wanted him to be fair with blond hair, but when I spoke with a noted history professor at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, he commented that the Jews of Europe would have had a Mediterranean look to them (olive skin, dark hair, etc.) during the 1100's. Basically, they would look almost the same as their Israeli ancestors. A map of hair color dating from the German empire shows the people living in the Rhine Valley area (home to many Jews) had primarily blond hair (See here). So it is very possible for Jews to have blond hair. I have a Jewish army buddy that has fair skin, blond hair, and blue eyes.

Another thing to think about is that Americans and Europeans don't have the market cornered on fair skin and light hair. I have met several people from the middle east with red hair and blue eyes.



Don't quote me on this, but I believe that "large" masses of Jews migrated to Europe during the 10th century. They would have their pick of German, French, Italian, and Hungarian wives, if they chose to marry outside of the community.

Please view the previous postings of others. I am being sarcastic about their suppositions. Those are the ones you should talk about stereotypes.

Btw, my friends told me some asians had problems reading beween the lines in English, and I told them it's not true. Now, it looks like they were right about it.

Actually, there were Jews in eastern, western, northern and southern Europe, so they didn't just mix with the Slavic people. It's just that, in the last 100 years, Russia and Eastern Europe persecuted Jews more harshly than the rest of the Europe before WWII, so many Russian Jews and eastern European Jews left their homes and went to U.S. or China. Therefore, they seemed to have more of a Slavic mixture. Historically, many Jews were first in Middle East of course. From there, they went to Persia, Africa, and Greece by the time of Alexander the Great. Then, they went to Italy and Spain during Roman period. After that, they went to France, England, and the rest of the Europe as well as China. Whenever one place persecuted them more, they would go to another place. However, I think they mixed more with the Spanish and Italian people originally than the Slavic people. I saw a picture called "the faces of Jews", and they looked like normal Europeans, Africans, Eastern Asians, as well as Persians, Arabs, and Asian Indians.

Well, I guess the professor would know more about it than you or me. It might be a little too early in the 1100's for Jews in German area to be assimilated enough to have blond hair and blue eyes. How about the following situation: If a group of Jewish soldiers in Roman army were captured in Roman's war with the Germanic tribes around 200 A.D. They did not die but married into the German tribes. They still kept most of their traditions and hook back up with the other Jewish people who migrated there later. Do you think their descendents could have blond hair and blue eyes 800 to 900 years later? The time after the destruction of Jerusalem was fairly chaotic. It took a few centuries for the Jewish scholars to perfect the rabbinical system and distributed the laws to all the Jewish communities. During those few centuries, if your hero's forefathers worked quickly, they could marry a lot of those blond haired and blue eyed girls in the Rhine Valley area. In addition, you could use the differences of this family from the rest of German Jews at the time as the reason why they moved to China.