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Full Version: What're these weapons (Poyang Lake Battle AD1363)?
China History Forum, Chinese History Forum > Chinese History Topics > Ancient Chinese Arsenal
snowybeagle
I am doing a translation for the thread Battle of Lake PóYáng (鄱阳湖之战) - 7th month of AD 1363, but kinda busy now and will go a little slow.

In the course of translations, I found some terms which all seemed to be similar, and I would like to know what are they specifically, given the era, and how they should be translated.

QUOTE
大小火炮、火铳、火箭、火蒺藜、大小火枪、神机箭和弓弩等


火炮 huŏ pào : cannons?

火铳 huŏ chòng : muskets?

火箭 huŏ jiàn : rockets?

火蒺藜 huŏ jí lí : 蒺藜 was the term for caltrops, but since the 火蒺藜 was used offensively in naval warfare, I assume it was a kind of grenade rather than landmine or watermine?

火枪 huŏ qiāng : what is the difference between 火枪 and 火铳?

神机箭 shén jī jiàn : multiple bolt-launcher?

Would appreciate if anyone could post pictures of the above.

TIA
Yun
火炮 huŏ pào : cannons

火铳 huŏ chòng : early handguns

火箭 huŏ jiàn : rocket-propelled arrows

火蒺藜 huŏ jí lí : a kind of ceramic grenade with spike-like protrusions, hence resembling a caltrop

火枪 huŏ qiāng : fire-lances - spears with gunpowder tubes attached to the end as flamethrowers

神机箭 shén jī jiàn : not sure about this one
Thomas Chen
QUOTE(Yun @ Nov 15 2005, 11:44 AM) [snapback]4770337[/snapback]
神机箭 shén jī jiàn : not sure about this one


I think these are large steel arrows with steel fins and fired using a cannon, and has a wooden wad as the base between the gunpowder and arrow... The Koreans had these weapons as well...

snowybeagle
Check out this book,
Chinese Ways in Warfare
Editors: Frank A. Kierman, Jr. and John K. Fairbank
Publisher: Harvard University Press, 1974
Comment: The earliest English language compilation of essays on Chinese warfare of various periods; chapter headings include:

It also includes a lengthy chapter on the battle of Poyang Lake, plus maps. Let me know, I can pass you my copy if you are interested...
snowybeagle
Thanks for all the replies.

Thanks for the offer, Thomas, but I am rather immobile nowadays, busy with work & family.

I searched & found a copy available @ Lee Kong Chian Reference Library - will try to browse to see it.
Conan the destroyer
I think...

Shen Ji Jian = Shinchikon in Korean, I believe. Which are the arrows fired from the hwacha.
athena
Hi guys,see the picture below, it shows:

1---- 火 枪 (明)
2---6 火 炮 (明)
athena
The real cannon, a Ming piece. post-81-1094881491.gif

2.
Altaica Militarica
QUOTE(Conan the destroyer @ Nov 15 2005, 03:01 PM) [snapback]4770415[/snapback]
I think...

Shen Ji Jian = Shinchikon in Korean, I believe. Which are the arrows fired from the hwacha.



Standard Romanization should be Shingijun. Exactly so as you think.

Best regards,

Alexey.

QUOTE(athena @ Nov 18 2005, 07:03 AM) [snapback]4770995[/snapback]
Hi guys,see the picture below, it shows:

1---- 火 枪 (明)
2---6 火 炮 (明)


Is the #1 a real Mindai huoqiang? It doesn't match the pics from "Shenqi pu" & "Tiangong kaiwu" but seems to look like Qingdai huoqiang.

Best regards,

Alexey.
Conan the destroyer
QUOTE(Altaica Militarica @ Nov 18 2005, 02:06 PM) [snapback]4771001[/snapback]
Standard Romanization should be Shingijun. Exactly so as you think.

Best regards,

Alexey.


Thanks for the correction. I'm illiterate when it comes to Korean. sad.gif
Altaica Militarica
QUOTE(Conan the destroyer @ Nov 18 2005, 08:09 AM) [snapback]4771002[/snapback]
Thanks for the correction. I'm illiterate when it comes to Korean. sad.gif


I could have problems with pingying as I studied only Korean and Chinese is the second language I have to study by myself.

So even I spend a lot of time reading old Chinese texts but the translation of them takes a lot of my time smile.gif

Best regards,

Alexey.

QUOTE(athena @ Nov 18 2005, 07:03 AM) [snapback]4770995[/snapback]
Hi guys,see the picture below, it shows:

1---- 火 枪 (明)
2---6 火 炮 (明)


Is the # 1 a real Mingdai huoqiang as indicated? It seems to look like Qingdai huoqiang and doesn't match the pics from "Shenqi pu" & "Tiangong kaiwu".

Best regards,

Alexey
athena
QUOTE(Altaica Militarica @ Nov 18 2005, 08:15 AM) [snapback]4771003[/snapback]
Is the # 1 a real Mingdai huoqiang as indicated? It seems to look like Qingdai huoqiang and doesn't match the pics from "Shenqi pu" & "Tiangong kaiwu".

Best regards,

Alexey


All pieces on the pics are Mingdai. The pic is from a wonderful book, see below.
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