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Full Version: Latest discovery of Mongol thundercrash bombs...
China History Forum, Chinese History Forum > Chinese History Topics > Ancient Chinese Arsenal
Thomas Chen
Hi guys

Check out these earth-shaking finds... My sincerest thanks to the great Mongol Emperor of the Yuan Dynasty, Kublai Khan, for bequeathing us with these precious artefacts...

http://www.archaeology.org/0301/etc/kamikaze.html



EXCERPT:
" .... perhaps the most amazing discovery yet made--tetsuhau or ceramic projectile bomb. KOSUWA has recovered six of these from the wreck. They are the world's earliest known exploding projectiles and the earliest direct archaeological evidence of seagoing ordnance.

Chinese alchemists invented gunpowder around A.D. 300, and by 1100 huge paper bombs much like giant firecrackers were being used in battle. Chinese sources refer to catapult-launched exploding projectiles in 1221, but some historians have argued that the references date to later rewritings of the sources. In his recent book In Little Need of Divine Intervention, which analyzes two Japanese scrolls that depict the Mongol invasion, Bowdoin College historian Thomas Conlan suggests that a scene showing a samurai falling from his horse as a bomb explodes over him was a later addition. Conlan's research masterfully refutes many of the traditional myths and commonly held perceptions of the invasion, downplaying the number of ships and troops involved and arguing that it was not the storms but the Japanese defenders ashore, as well as confusion and a lack of coordination, that thwarted the khan's two invasions. But his suggestion that the exploding bomb is an anachronism has now been demolished by solid archaeological evidence. Moreover, when the Japanese x-rayed two intact bombs, they found that one was filled just with gunpowder while the other was packed with gunpowder and more than a dozen square pieces of iron shrapnel intended to cut down the enemy. "

It is quite funny to know that some people still think that China was a non-militaristic pacifist society and that they developed gunpowder only for firecrackers and entertainment purposes.... :D :D Ignorant jokers they are...
Manchuconqueror
I remember that picture, where that bomb makes this large shrapenel effect. :)
Yun
I think it's more accurate to say, however, that alchemists did not 'invent' gunpowder around 300 AD - they only probably had their first accidental explosions while trying to prepare elixirs by heating mixtures containing sulphur and saltpeter. But they didn't really know how to use black powder in fireworks until the Sui and Tang dynasties, 300 years later. The first Chinese written record of a formula for gunpowder is dated to around 850 AD.
Thomas Chen
The picture of an exploding bombshell from the contemporary Mongol Invasion Scroll....
http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=444225


A picture of the iron shapnel within the ceramic bombs...


Incidentally, I forgot to mention that last year, Chinese media reported that a mainland Chinese collector has just revealed a bronze handgun in his collection with an inscription dated 1271, that belonged to Kublai Khan's forces... It is probably the earliest surviving handgun ever excavated ...
TMPikachu
It looks kinda like a bowl of curry...
did the metal decay?
Thomas Chen
QUOTE(TMPikachu @ Mar 13 2005, 05:31 PM)
It looks kinda like a bowl of curry...
did the metal decay?
[snapback]4705153[/snapback]


It's rusted, dude...
TMPikachu
QUOTE(Thomas Chen @ Mar 13 2005, 12:36 PM)
It's rusted, dude...
[snapback]4705155[/snapback]

I know it wasn't curry. A humorous tone is hard to imply with only type.
Kulong
QUOTE(TMPikachu @ Mar 13 2005, 01:51 PM)
I know it wasn't curry. A humorous tone is hard to imply with only type.
[snapback]4705162[/snapback]

It's not so difficult if you use smilies. That's what they are there for. rolleyes.gif
TMPikachu
QUOTE(Kulong @ Mar 13 2005, 06:25 PM)
It's not so difficult if you use smilies.  That's what they are there for.  rolleyes.gif
[snapback]4705187[/snapback]

d**** your smug smiley... angry.gif

now while we're on it... does anyone know if these bombs were used in Europe too? I know bombs and other gunpowder weapons were used in attacking Europe, but I've never seen any depictions of them
Thomas Chen
QUOTE(TMPikachu @ Mar 13 2005, 11:30 PM)
d**** your smug smiley...  angry.gif

now while we're on it... does anyone know if these bombs were used in Europe too? I know bombs and other gunpowder weapons were used in attacking Europe, but I've never seen any depictions of them
[snapback]4705188[/snapback]


Yeah.. the Mongol Invasion Scroll seems to be the only illustration depicting its use by the Mongols...
Thomas Chen
Jieming, for your reference... Think you can use the pics of the Mongol Invasion Scroll and the ceramic casing-iron shrapnel bombs for your website...
Liang Jieming
I did. It's in the page on Early Grenades/bombs. I'm still trying to finish that page but there's just so much information.
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