Despite being one of the biggest minorities in China (around 7 mill?) there seems to be very little talk.

From what I know.

-It seems that the Yi are very diverse. Some seem to be more related to the Qiang, while others more related to Miao.

-most, if not all, speak a language in the Tibeto-Burman family. Some dialects appear to be unintelligible to other Yi groups.

-Chinese records state that they descendent from the ancient Qiang. Perhaps there is some linkage between these peoples and groups such as the Nanman, etc.

-They had a complicated system of slaves, in which you had your elites, and varying levels of slaves. Some of which also owned their own slaves. Naturally this all came to an end when the PRC was established.

anyone with more info?

pics from the net:

Yi clothing (male and female)


some of the varying Yi headdresses for females




Yi writing
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/yi.htm

Just curious, do the Yi ethnic still learn the Yi language and writing in the schools in China?

This is from Omniglot:

The Yi have the greatest diversity among the 56 official nationalities in the PRC, consisting of about 120 distinct tribes and sub-groups living in Yunnan, Guizhou, Guangxi and southern Sichuan. Many tribes have their own unique language, clothing, customs and festivals. The various Yi languages have been classified into a few large categories like Eastern Yi, Southern Yi, Northern Yi, Western Yi and Southeastern Yi. All are Tibeto-Burman languages, but are usually mutually unintelligible. They have traditionally known themselves by their own tribal names, and not under a common identity as Yi.

So basically the Yi is another one of those recently "constructed" nationalties created by ethnologists?

Well, this is the official PRC explanation:

彝族人有许多自称，因地而异，如“诺苏”、“纳苏”、“罗武”、“罗罗”、“米撒泼”、“撒尼”、“阿细”、“阿西”等，按广大彝族人民的共同意愿，以“彝”作为统一的民族名称。

Translation: The Yi people call themselves by several different names according to where they live, such as Nuosu, Nasu, Luowu, Luoluo, Misapo, Sani, Axi(1), Axi(4), and so on. By the common desire of the majority of the Yi people, they adopted Yi as a unified name for their nationality.

(from http://www.zytzb.org.cn/zytzbwz/nation/min...gmao/news51.htm )

However, other sources indicate that many 'Yi' tribes still privately maintain that they have their own identity and are not part of the Yi.

Here's another version of how the name 彝 was coined:

In 1949, the Chinese Communist Party came to power and established a new regime called the People’s Republic of China (PRC). Like its predecessor, the new regime asserted authority over all nationality areas and stressed the unity of the Chinese nation. But unlike the former republic, the new regime had more positive policies toward nationality issues. At first, the equality and autonomous rights of all nationalities were guaranteed by the Constitution of the PRC. Subsequently, identification of nationalities was carried out over all of China. Until 1979, a total of 55 minority nationalities had been formally recognized by the state. Along the old Qiang belt, the identification or distinction of nationalities basically followed the Chinese concepts of Qiang 羌, Fan 番, and Yi 夷. Most of the people in this belt who had been labeled as fan now were classified as Zang zu 藏族 (Tibetans), and became the eastern-most portion of a total of 4,593,330 Zang zu. The people at the southern end of this belt who had been labeled Yi (to avoid its barbaric hint the character 夷 was now replaced by a homophonous character 彝) were identified as the Yi zu and became the northern-most portion of a total of 6,572,173 Yi people.

From http://ultra.ihp.sinica.edu.tw/~origins/pa...barbarbook4.htm

Previously, the word 彝 meant a kind of wine vessel used in ancient China, or was an archaic synonym for 'law'. The word was hardly ever used in normal settings.

Yi 彝 - a richly ornamented rectangular wine vessel from late Shang to Western Zhou. The whole shape looks like a house or a sarcophagus (height 50 cm). The name yi or fangyi 方彝 is not original but was attributed to this vessel type by Song scholars.
(from http://www.chinastyle.cn/arts-crafts/bronze/type-ware.htm )

More on the artificial origin of the name 彝:

彝族原称“夷族”、“倮倮族”等。建国后，毛泽东与周恩来在北京会见彝族代表研究讨论，在会议上提到以前彝族名称不统一，其中“夷族”、“倮倮族”都有侮辱性的含义，因为“夷“原意是”外族“，大家认为新中国是由兄弟民族组成的大家庭，大家应该平等互爱，不应该有夷内之分，“夷”不利于民族团结。于是，毛主席提出了把“夷”字改为“彝”字，他认为“彝”是宫殿里放东西的，房子下面有“米”又有“系”，有吃有穿，代表日子富裕，大家听了很满意。从此“彝族”就被正式定为彝族各支系的统一族称。

Translation: The Yi people were originally called the Yi 夷, Luoluo, and other names. After the PRC was established, Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai met the representatives of the Yi for discussions in Beijing. During the meeting, it was pointed out that the Yi went by many different names in the past, and some like 夷 and Luoluo had offensive connotations. 夷 originally meant 'barbarian', but since everyone felt that the New China was to be a big family made up of brother nationalities, with equal treatment and mutual affection rather than a distinction between 'civilized' and 'barbarian', the word 夷 was not suitable for the solidarity of nationalities. Thus Chairman Mao proposed replacing 夷 with 彝 - he felt that the 彝 was a vessel used in the imperial palace, and the written character showed a grain radical and a cloth radical under a roof, symbolising an affluent life with enough to eat and wear. Everyone was very satisfied with this suggestion. From then on, 彝 was offically chosen as the unified name for the various branches of the Yi people.

From http://www.culstudies.com/rendanews/displaynews.asp?id=2823

Thanks for the info! It seems ethnic identity among Chinese minorities can be pretty confusing. Kind of reminds me of the Uighurs, who never used that name for hundreds of years and referred themselves just by Oasis of origin but found themselves with that term being applied and gaining wide spread acceptance among themselves.

I think the Hui were another blanket term to cover Muslims who didn't fit into those other Muslim minorities as well.

Can someone please explain this about the Yi?

http://elearning.algonquincollege.com:8080...tcc/general.htm



http://yi.peoples.org/learn/profiles/general.htm

I also read somewhere else, that stated, in the mid 1800's western missionaries whom visited the Yi in (Da Ling Shan) Big Cold Mountains in Sichuan Province were surprised to see Yi men standing 6'1 and 6'1, the women and children had flat foreheads and large noses, one writer even wrote the Yi as "a black branch of the caucasian race"

Anyone have any more info on the Yi?

Large noses and tall height aren't exclusive to "caucasoids", northern Chinese are only slightly shorter than Europeans according to recent studies. Furthermore, plenty of Han and other minorities have high-bridges noses, just look at these guys.

Sichuan
http://www.pbase.com/kecai/image/35101110
Beijing
http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/China/photo248095.htm
Anhui
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/pho...ui_province.jpg

This guy played one of the villains in a bunch of 70's shaw bros movies, I'm not sure about his ethnic background.


I've seen pictures of some isolated Yi tribes... they do seem to have high bridged noses in general. Though they don't look like "caucasoids" at all.

wow...they look similar (clothing-wise) to the miao.

I agree with Conan, sometimes features are merely coincidence rather than being proof of some kind of other genetic background. In addition, alot of those older travelogues from the 18th and 19th century have always made such remarks.. such as "The Ainu are hairier and have larger eyes, thus they must be a lost caucasian race".

The few Yi's that I've met, were typical in appearance to any S.E Asian.. although like stated previuosly.. it seems the entire group is a governmen created nationality that really is an amalgamation of varying ethnic groups

Why are most minority have quite common dressing (colorful and flowering) ? Rather than the han style of dragon..

I am going to make a few guesses on the similarities between the Yi/Lisu and the Miao/Hmong.

[ Both follow shamanism (and animism in some aspects) ]

[ The colorful patterns that are shaped in circles are actually letters/alphabet of the Yi/Lisu and /Miao-Hmong. When the Miao was forced to assimilate, their written language and spoken language was prohibited. If not followed, one would be beheaded or inprisoned. To keep their written language hidden, the Miao women sewed them into PAJ NTAUB (pand thou).

I'm not sure about the Yi/Lisu since I know so little about them, but I would like to learn more about them as they seem quite similar. But for their alphabet, it seemed as if they also wanted to preserve their alphabet/language and thus hiding them in the patterns was the way to go. ]

[ The flowering designs is quite similar and somewhat strikingly too familiar. The Miao/Hmong today in the USA still use the flowery designs on traditional clothing. ]

I'll see if I can pull up some clothing and compare the above Yi/Lisu clothing w/Miao/Hmong. As I said, I'm very interested in the Yi/Lisu and their way of living. I'd like to do an analysis and compare/contrast it with the Miao/Hmong.

PM me if you have anything that would help.

Dear colleagues,

I wonder if Yi tribes (including Luoluo) were the same tribes with tribes from Liang Jinchuan who fought with Qing troops in 1771-1775?

Best regards,

Alexey.

A professor in my university's history department, who's an expert on Yunnan history, recently told me the story about how the name of the Yi nationality was invented by Mao Zedong (see http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...t&p=4782476 ) is just a "modern myth". According to him, the name was already being used in Qing records.

Would appreciate if anyone could further verify.

I just want to get the further info about Jinchuan wars and professor Michael V. Gorelik (the leading specialist in Oriental Medieval armours and weapons in Russia) asked me to verify if the Luoluo and Naxi are the same tribes as Jinchuan people who fought Qianglong troops in 1771-1776.

Best regards,

Alexey.

If you can give me the text of "Liang Jinchuan Pingding fanglue" it would be marwellous!

I believe the Jinchuan people were of Tibetan stock. Their territory lay in Sichuan, on the upper reaches of the Dadu River (the Da Jinchuan River was one of the major tributaries of the Dadu), and the Tibetans in that region were called Xifan during the Qing dynasty. Today they are known as Ersu and Eastern Khampa, but officially included under the Tibetan nationality. The Ersu did try to get recognized as a separate nationality called the Xifan in the 1980s, but their request was turned down.

The Luoluo/Lolo (now generically called the Yi) were found south of the Dadu River and extending southwards into Yunnan. The Naxi live in northern Yunnan. So neither of these peoples would have made up the population of Jinchuan.

did your professor mentioned that the Qing were already using this character 彝 to designate the Yi or not? or some other characters ?

According to him, the Qing were using the character 彝.

However, this seems strange to me since the name Luoluo was the usual one applied to these people in Qing times.

Altaica Militarica, I've made a new thread in the Qing section for your questions on the Jinchuan War, and moved your last post there. I think it will be easier for you to get information there.

Yi 彝 , consisting of a noble Black Yi and a slave White Yi, had existed with this caste for over 1000 years. They had a big different characteristics from Han Chinese, i.e., big ear. For their high nose bridge, quite some foreign "scholars" tried to find a non-Chinese and non-Tibetan origin for them. A common surname happened to be Qin, i.e., the same as Qin Dynasty. One Ming Dynasty general who resisted Manchu, called Qin Liangyu, was a Yi.

Could this be where the Yi get their high nose bridges from? Could some Yi be mixed?



Bricks with molded designs unearthed in Chongqing

www.chinaview.cn 2004-01-12 20:52:43


CHONGQING, Jan. 12 (Xinhuanet) -- Archaeologists in southwest China's Chongqing municipality have unearthed more than 20 pieces of brick reliefs from a tomb of the Eastern Han Dynasty (25 A.D.-220 A.D.).

Lin Bizhong, a noted archaeologist with the Chongqing MunicipalArchaeological Team, said this was the first time that bricks withmolded designs had been unearthed in Chongqing.

Previously, such tomb bricks had been excavated from Sichuan province, southwest China, and have been included as relics under state key protection.

Lin acknowledged that the brick-and-stone-structured tomb, fromwhich brick reliefs were unearthed, had been robbed, so they did not find anything valuable in the tomb besides the bricks.

Designs on the bricks include horse-drawn carriages accompaniedby honor guards, the image of Fuxi, or the sun god in ancient China, and images of high-nosed and hollow-eyed people, who might be from varied ethnic groups or foreigners.

According to experts, designs of horse-drawn carriages with honor guards indicated that the tomb owner was of high social status, bricks with the image of Fuxi were important materials forstudying religion and culture at that time, and the images of foreigners reflected cultural exchanges between the East and West in Eastern Han dynasty.

Moreover, archaeologists also found traces of red color on these bricks and held that might be traces of color painting.

a bunch of questions.
do you know the population of the Xifan and Khampas? Its hard to find estimates on ethnic subgroups. I've read groups like Lhobas being able to seperate themselves from Tibetans, I wonder why Xifans were unsuccessful. did Khampas try to seperate?

also among the many Yi groups, which one is the largest in population, and which one has links with ancient Dali (or do they all in some way).

and finally could some one translate what this sign says
http://www.lsyzdcwc.ngo.cn/%E4%B8%AD%E5%BF...BC%8D%20021.jpg
i am assuming they are all Yi?

hmm according to Dwyer, it seems that Liangshan dialect of Nuosu Yi holds more influence as a regional lingua franca than other dialects of Yi (i.e Sani Yi).

http://www.eastwestcenterwashington.org/Pu...seriespdf15.htm (P.15)

also seems that the Nuoso population is 2 million out of what.. 6-7 million Yi?