Dear all,

Did the sword really exist ? I search the forum, so far I only got that the assasination attempt on Dong Zhuo by Cao Cao is fiction.

Yongde

No, the Qixing Jian is fictional, and so is the Qinghong Jian captured by Zhao Yun and the other Yitian Jian that Cao Cao used. None of them existed in historical sources.

Here are some swords that are actually named in historical sources on the Three Kingdoms:

Dao 刀 (single-edged swords)

1. Cao Cao had five baipi dao 百辟刀 ('swords that can cut through a hundred objects') forged. According to him, he gave one to Cao Pi and the other four to those of his sons who liked literary but not martial pursuits (presumably including Cao Zhi). Cao Zhi's "Poem on a Precious Sword" (Baodao Fu 宝刀赋), however, says that his father gave one sword to Cao Pi, one to him, and one to his younger brother Cao Lin, and kept the other two for himself. Cao Zhi also states that the swords were each personalized with inscribed motifs of the dragon, the tiger, the bear, the horse, or the sparrow. He did not specify which son got which motif.

2. Cao Pi's Dianlun 典论 mentions three fine dao being commissioned by him when he was Crown Prince. They were named after their inscribed motif, colour, or shape: Lingbao 灵宝 (it had the motif of a divine tortoise 灵龟), Hanzhang 含章 (it had the red colour of the sunset), and Suzhi 素质 (it was narrower than the others, closer to the width of a jian blade).

魏太子丕造百辟宝刀三：其一长四尺三寸六分，重三斤六两。文似灵龟，名曰灵宝。其二采似丹霞，名曰含章。长四尺三寸三分，重三斤十两。其三锋似霜。刀身剑挟，名曰素质，长四尺三寸，重二斤九两。（《曹丕集，剑铭》）
《典论》：魏太子丕造百辟宝刀，一曰灵宝，二曰含章，三曰素质，又作露陌刀，一名龙鳞刀。( http://game.163.com/co_zq/mengj/editor/050...817_478823.html )

3. Cao Pi also commissioned a lumo dao 露陌刀, which might be the ancestor of the 陌刀 used by Tang troops. The inscription for this sword, which was called Longlin 龙鳞 (dragon's scales, because its pattern resembled a dragon's skin), read: 于铄良刀，胡炼亶时，譬诸鳞角，靡所任兹。不逢不若，永世宝持。利用卫身，以威弗治。(would appreciate if someone could translate this)
我国古代关于花纹钢的记载约始见于东汉时期,据曹植“宝刀赋”云，建安中，曹操命有司作宝刀五枚，分别以龙、虎、熊、马、雀为识；据曹丕《典论》载，丕为太子时，曾命国工精炼宝剑三枚，宝刀三枚、匕首两枚、露陌刀一枚；皆因姿订名：宝剑“色似彩虹”的便叫“流采”，宝刀“文似灵龟”的便叫“灵宝”，“采似丹露”的便叫“含章”，露陌刀花纹“状如龙纹”便叫“龙鳞”。 ( http://www.518j.com/news.asp?id=289 )

4. Sun Quan commissioned the forging of three dao, which he named Bailian 百炼 ('forged a hundred times'), Qingdu 青犊 ('green calf'), and Loujing 漏景.

Jian 剑 (double-edged swords)

1. Cao Pi commissioned three jian in 219: Feijing 飞景, which flashed like a shooting star; Liucai 流采, which had the colours of the rainbow; and Huafeng 华锋.
《典论》曰，建安二十四年二月壬午，魏太子丕造百辟宝剑，长四尺二寸。淬以清漳，厉以（石）诸。饰以文玉，表以通犀。光似流星，名曰飞景。 ...
余好击剑，善以短乘长。选兹良金，命彼国工，精而炼之。至于百辟，其始成也。五色充炉，巨橐自鼓。灵物仿佛，飞鸟翔舞，以为宝器九，剑三：一曰飞景，二曰流采，三曰华锋。

魏太子丕造百辟宝剑三，长四尺二寸，重一斤十有五两，淬以清漳，厉以（石监）诸，饰以文玉，表以通犀，光似流星，名曰飞景。其二名流采，色似采虹，长四尺二寸，重一斤十有四两。（《曹丕集，剑铭》）
(from http://game.163.com/co_zq/mengj/editor/050...817_478823.html )

2. Sun Quan commissioned six jian: Baihong 白虹 (white rainbow - also named as Baishe 白蛇, white snake, in another source), Zidian 紫电 (purple lightning), Pixie 辟邪 (destroyer of evil - also the name of a mythical beast), Liuxing 流星 (shooting star), Qingmin 青冥 (green and dark - Li Mubai's sword in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was named after this one), and Baili 百里 (travelling a hundred [i]li[/]i]).
《古今注》载：吴大皇帝有宝剑六，一曰白虹，二曰紫电，三曰辟邪，四曰流星，五曰青冥，六曰百里。
(from http://game.163.com/co_zq/mengj/editor/050...817_478823.html )

Actaully, in terms of great jian swords, wei's main ones include 倚天 of Xiahou, 青虹 and 孟德 of cao cao, 飛星, 流采 and 華鋌 of Cao Pi, and 文士 given to cao pi.

What primary historical sources are there for the existence of Qinghong and Yitian? As far as I can tell they appear only in the novel.
事实上，“倚天剑”的名字在《三国演义》第四十一回中也曾经出现过一次，赵云在长板坡救主的时候杀了夏侯恩，抢到一把宝剑，名叫“青釭剑”。书中说：“曹操有宝剑二口：一名‘倚天’，一名‘青釭’；倚天剑自佩之，青釭剑令夏侯恩佩之。那青釭剑砍铁如泥，锋利无比。…”书中描述青釭剑的锋利时说，“（赵）云乃拔青釭剑乱砍，手起处，衣甲平过，血如涌泉，”看来确实“砍铁如泥。”而倚天剑应该比青釭剑更加锋利，否则曹操不会将“倚天剑自佩之。” ( http://www.epochtimes.com/gb/5/12/7/n1145199.htm )

There is a source for the Mengde sword, from Tao Hongjing's "Record of Dao and Jian of the past and present", but it seems too fantastic to be believed that Cao Cao would find a sword with his name inscribed on it in a deserted valley. I doubt it actually existed in history.
梁.陶弘景《古今刀剑录》：“魏武帝曹操，以建安二年，于幽谷得一剑，长三尺六寸，上有金字，铭曰‘孟德’，王常服之。”



文士 was given to Cao Pi by Yang Xiu, but that was not its real name. Cao Pi referred to it simply as Yang Xiu's sword 杨修剑, and the name 文士剑 was derived by later commentators from 《文士传》, the text in which the account of this sword appears.
魏文帝爱杨修才,修诛后,追修,修会以宝剑与文帝。帝后佩之,告左右曰:“此杨修剑也。” （《文士传》）
(from http://game.163.com/co_zq/mengj/editor/050...817_478823.html )



I think Huafeng 华锋 should indeed be Huading 华铤('patterned iron ore'), and the website I cited was in error. But Feixing 飞星 ('flying star') seems to me to be a later corruption of Feijing 飞景 ('flying light').

Here's a mention of an actual sword belonging to Cao Cao said to have been unearthed in 1918:
曹操对锋利刃：

　　刀式古剑。剑背贴护手处有篆文“曹操对锋利刃”，故名。剑身长三尺二寸四分，宽约一寸二分，重一斤七两，贴护手处铸有三朵小花。剑镦与护手皆嵌银精铸，其柄与护手均似刀形。1918年，山东济宁西关古墓中出土。

However, if it was Cao Cao's sword, why was it found in a tomb in Shandong? Anyone have info on its authenticity (or otherwise)?

I recall reading about each in seperate texts somewhere. But I can't remember where right now. I'll dig up my books later.

I am not disputing the origin of the sword itself as opposed to its existance. I doubt it just as much as you would that Cao Cao would find a sword in the mountain with his own stylename inscribed on it (or maybe someone put it there knowing he will find it). Going by the Chinese martial arts founders problem pattern, it is even possible that he forged it himself but didn't want to be frowned upon for self-crediting. Then again, thats just me making completely unrelated guesses.

The fac that Cao Pi refered to it as Yang Xui's sword, it doesn't neglect the posibility that it was called 文士 . It is like pointing to excalibur and saying thats Arthurs sword. Even if it is true that 文士 may or may not be its real name, since we are looking back into history I don't think it is incorrect to use what other historical historians use. It is like using "Shu" for the name of Liu Bei's kingdom when they refered to themselves as Han.

Actually I always call it Shu-Han... I'm such a pedant eh?

My point about the Wenshi was just that we can't be sure it had a name, unlike the others.

Regarding the Mengde sword: How credible do you find Tao Hongjing's list of swords in general? Is there too much Daoist lore in there?

Well, it really depends on how much salt you take with it. Sure, there are alot of things that wouldn't make it to 'top 10000 believable historical facts of the century' list, but certainly there is enough in there to believe. Dispute the branches, but take in the trunk.

Excellent post.... My personal choice for the top sword-collecting connoisseurship family is the Cao family...