It's also contestable to deny majority Cantonese-Chinese of NON-Yue origin.

This stone age excuse is wearing thin,basically it's recycled garbage.Aren't all those aboriginal minoritites Chinese as well,there is their blood-tie.

Much to my intrigue,it's always a few internet forum ethnic Chinese posters in South Pacific have some sort of affinity with Viets not another Chinese live elsewhere.I wonder if it's indoctrinated,I am searching for an answer.

30% of American blacks have " white genes or origin ",they're blacks period.

by your logic , all forms of history are recycled garbage then, why would u care to be in ahistory forum anyway?

Re-read my first underlined sentence in second paragraph,don't baselessly twisted other people's words.

"It's also contestable to deny majority Cantonese-Chinese of NON-Yue origin." well, it s contestable, so its your right to contest it..
"This stone age excuse is wearing thin,basically it's recycled garbage.Aren't all those aboriginal minoritites Chinese as well,there is their blood-tie." well, it s also your right to think it s an excuse, garbage or whatever u call it... but dun deny others to believe they are not

if u think i m bending your words baselessly , apologies then

1. Before Han Wudi Emperor conquered Nan Yue 111 BC, Guangxi and Guangdong were part of NanYue and NanYue, as Chinese records, includes Au Lac Kingdom. In 1804, Can Long Emperor refused to give the name of NanYue to today's Vietnam because he was afraid of recalling old NanYue by Dai Viet men and may be the Cantonese.

Yeah, many Cantonese are NORTHERN Han but 1000 years ago, you should remember that Cantonese were very different from Northern Han today and similar to Vietnamese. But over 100 years, many people from North China have flown down the South to re-assimilate this area (especially in the rule of Mao Tze Tung since 1949).

2. Nan Yue had a strong relation with Au Lac but not Dai Viet (Vietnam later). In fact, Au Lac or Nan Yue is really not important to Vietnamese as regard to their origin. Importanly, Zhao Tuo called himself NanYue Wudi (Emperor) and he and his followers ultimately resisted Han until finally they failed in 111 BC. That was a CONTRIBUTION to Jiaozhou in 1000 years of China's occupation and Dai Viet later because Zhao Tuo and his followers were Han but they soon themselves abandoned their origin to be assimilated to Yue community.

A question for you... Why the Chinese don't want to realise that Nan Yue is closer to Au Lac than China. Or they want to forget their real origin?

Contradiction. Why are they similar to the Vietnamese?



They are all Chinese, that's why.

Then,WHY all the crap talks here since you signed on yesterday

In geography only,another Bai Yue-ism crap talk.

Those of us who are genuine Cantonese-Chinese of Northern Han origin REALIZED we aren't related to Nan Yue ancient natives our ancestors slaughtered and pushed out to Guangxi and Vietnam.

We Cantonese-Chinese of NORTHERN Han heritage are truly proud of our Hua-Xia and Dong-Yi roots,and so are our beloved Chinese aboriginal minorities who held onto respective colorful culture in honor of their Nan Yue forebears.

Question for you and Viets,WHY the ethnic Viets don't want to realize modern day Chinese aboriginal minorties are closer to Au Lac and indigenous Viets than those Cantonese-Chinese who truly can trace family roots to Yellow River Basins.

There are close to 20 million Zhuangs,have Viets visit the Zhuang Autonomous Region to rekindle long lost kinship ?

It's some Viets don't want to accept they are either mix-offsprings or Au Lac origin.

You should remember that Northern Viets of Kinh-origin intermixed with many indigenous tribes populated in southern part of Vietnam for over 1000 years,today's Vietnamese are a different ethnicity.

Total fallacy,no Han Chinese from northern provinces fled to Vietnam,only from 2 Guangs and Fujian in the past 100 years so it's migration inaccuracy on your part.Many ethnic Chinese kept their cultrure NOT assimilated into ethnic Viet population you've dreamingly insinuated here.Han Chinese from Northern China fled to S Korea in 1949,mostly resettled in Pusan and Seoul.

hehe .... Viets are truly infactuated with groundless fantasy full blood ethnic Chinese families volunteerily convert to Viets,it aint's so in reality.If there is any Chinese blood,it's those rejected mix-offpsprings.

you should also remember that over 100000 years ago the viets were different from vietnamese today and similar to africans.



no,the northern hans has been migrating sourthward since ancient times.

Northen Han rarely migrated to Vietnam .
Most of people in ancient South China who migrated to Vietnam were non-Han people.
At that time, Viet local and Viet immigrants from the sea, and from the mountains may
be under Han regime, or may be out-law. They were Vietnamese anscestors, rather than Han.
Recently Southern Chinese took refuge in Vietnam, calling themselves Ming-Xiang people,
and their second, third, fourth generation are still in Vietnam. Most of them cannot speak
or write Chinese.

Some Vietnamese need to be educated that NanYue has nothing to do with Vietnam.
NanYue Kingdom and its King were totally Chinese.
There were no Vietnam idea or concept at that time then.

The Cantonese and the Vietnamese has nothing in common, or being related, whatsoever.
At least, history records cannot show any relationship between the Cantonese and Vietnamese.

Well said, Trueviet.

I wish more vietnamese forummer have the same thought as you.

As a matter of fact, many Cantonese still have strong deep-root distaste towards Vietnamese. In oversea, Vietnamese and Cantonese do not mingle well together. When the Vietnamese started moving into Chinese neighborhood, many Cantonese will move out (That's what you seen in LA). Even the Chinese-Vietnamese have to work hard to re-learn their chineseness in order to be able to assimilate into Cantonese circle (For example, many trying hard to get rid of vietnamese accent when speaking cantonese. Many changed the surname from vietnamese pronunciation to Cantonese pronunciation . Many send their kids to Chinese language school to learn Chinese). Some Cantonese still calling Vietnamese covertly in derogatory term e.g "死越南仔“ or " “越南狗” (Sorry if it is offensive to Vietnamese forummer. I am just reflecting what I heard. Personally I am strongly against using those terms and would never call vietnamese in those terms). In Hong Kong, many Hong Konger still calling vietnamese "Bac nau do lai"( It came from the famous radio broadcast in Hong Kong in the 80's when Hong Kong was plagued with the influx of vietnamese refugees. To try to stop the vietnamese refugee from coming onshore a broadcast was made in vietnamese to address to the vietnamese refugee. The sentence started from "Bac nau do lai ", which means "Starting from now on " in vietnamese. The sentence was later used by Hong Konger to ridicule and address to vietnamese people).

what real origins are u talking about? the yues in history are a heterogenous lot and being labelled yue does not necessary mean they are shared similar origins with today s vietnamese or even the au lacs of old..

the real similarity we share, are that we are all southerners...and may look similar as a result

People have some racist discrimination in themselves, not merely between the Cantonese and the Vietnamese. When I was in GuangZhou, the one who speaks with Madarin accent was discriminated.
In the US, people do not mix well between groups. I do not live well between Vietnamese, for I am
northerner while other are southerners. I am not Cantonese in Vietnam as other refugees, either.

Most of North Vietnamese refugees in HongKong are Cantonese immigrants to Vietnam at the time
of Qing dynasty. Most of South Vietnamese refugees in HongKong, however, are Vietnamese. There
were fights between north Viet refugees and south Viet regugees, but not Viet-Cantonese. They
fought because of political reasons. The south refugees call the north Vietnamese Communists.
That is the main reason for the fights. The HongKong government then separated them into different
camps: the north camp and the south camp.

Oh, you are contradictory. Who is physically Cantonese now? 2000 years ago, Cantonese were mixed blood people of local Yue and northern Han and as I stated above, they were very different from Cantonese and Han people today. Of course, it isn't easy to recognize it because it would shattered the illussion that all Chinese are the same physically.

I agree with you that Chinese aboriginal minorities are closer to Au Lac such as Le, Tai, Dai... (which China goverment sorts them into a group Zhuang with over 20 millions people!). But these minorities were part of China culture and they culturally contributed so much to Han/Tang or China. Why some Chinese forummers don't realize this? They are BaiYue and deserted to be highly respectful although they don't have a country as Vietnam.

I come to Southern China 4 years ago and visited Zhao Muo's museum and thought of their contribution to our country in the past. Have you read Vietnamse history? 12th century Le Van Huu, despite of 3 times of Yuan-Mong feats, placed Zhao Tou respectuffly in the geneology of Vietnam dynasties as the first king. He did so because he realized the truth and neglect the prejudices that Zhao Tuo and his country are of Chinese origin.

Another question for you: Why Qing Emperor Can Long refused to give the NanYue name to Nguyen dynasty in 1804?

To redstick426: I think you have better to visit Vietnam to see what condition Cantonese-Vietnameses are in. They only offend Vietnamese when they are outside Vietnam such as in Hong Kong or US...

Because most Cantonese have family record books indicating that their ancestors migrated from the north to Guangdong during the Tang and Song dynasty.

I think they would not feel proud to be Nanyue men because Nanyue is always considered as Nanman.

But the head of NanYue Zhao Tuo is of Chinese origin... Do you mean Zhao Tuo is considered Nanman too?

Incorrect,those Northern Viet refugees of ethnic Chinese heritage were nearly all Hakka descendants NOT Cantonese immigrants.Cantonese-Chinese mainly resided in southern part of Vietnam for they weren't peasant farmers like the Hakka-Chinese.

Viet Communism was and still is mainly a native Vietnamese concern NOT ethnic Chinese's.

Don't you think Viets should spend time in recognizing " blood of melting pot " among own population ?

For your information since you haven't grasped the historic facts yet,modern day majority Cantonese-Chinese families are not mixed with ancient Yue as you dreamingly insinuated.There are over 50 million PURE blood Nan Yue descendants populated Guangxi and Guilin provinces and they're alive and well.They can tell you they're proud of mutual respect and relation with Han Chinese of Northern Hua-Xia/Dong-Yi origins.None of them would talk crap like you Viets about " blood stains ".The largest migration waves from Northern China occured during later Song Dynasty,these ancestors of Cantonese-Chinese settled areas where Nan Yue natives have either " wiped out " or pushed out to Guangxi and Vietnam where Zhuang ( Nung in Vietnamese ) as a minority population among the majority Kinhs.

It's to my utmost intrigue,ONLY Viets among all Asian nationalities have this UN-HEALTHY OBSESSION with Chinese race.

There are very few Vietnam-born ethnic Cantonese-Chinese in Vietnam compare to majority of Teochow or Hokkien speaking.They are no better or worst than ethnic Viets,it's still the native Viets have strong desire inter-marry Chinese as is in USA.It's obvious,Chinese blood is " premium " to ETHNIC Viets mindset and seemingly always glue to Chinese where-ever they settled.

One interesting side-show trait of ETHNIC Viets in America is " faking as Chinese ".I personally eyewitnessed one such incident at a conference,this one indigenous-looking ETHNIC Viet guy unshamefully faked as Hong-Kong born Chinese with very thick Viet-accent.I refrained from exposed him out of not making an unpleasant scene in front of American crowd at the same table.

Thats correct. Most of North Vietnamese of ethnic Chinese background were hakka, or aka "Ngai" people.

During the first wave of Diaspora in the late 70's, most of them fled to the nearby Guangxi province in China where their ancestor originally came from. Very few North Vietnamese refugee of Hakka background came to Hong Kong. For those who arrived in Hong Kong, majority of them were viets.

Those northern-Vietnam born Hakka Chinese were expelled by Communist Vietnam soon after the border clash,resettled in various parts of Guangxi province.Only a few Hakkas made it out to sea and arrived in Hong Kong in those years.Great majority ETHNIC Chinese didn't inter-mixed with indigenous Viets as some Chinese-blood-infactuated Viets propagated here and mis-led elsewhere on the internet.

Correct,majority of Viet refugees were ETHNIC Viets.

Here is one dirty little secret ETHNIC Viets haven't admitted yet in cyberspace,a few hundred of their own Viet brethren in Vietnam volunteerily imitated as Chinese by speaking Hakka dialect or other Chinese dialect in pursue of culturally converted to Chinese and pretended as culturally-sophiscated ETHNIC Chinese.

i'd like to know what did these minoritie contributed to han and tang china?




ofcause they dont have a country since there isnt any minority groups called baiyue in modern china.




simple,why the us give new mexico the name new mexico,but not mexico?

You have not read my word carefull enough .

I said most of North Vietnam refugees in HongKong are Cantonese.
I say more that Most of Vietnam refugees in HongKong are southern Viet who are true Viet.
I say more tthat most of Chinese living in Vietnam speak Cantonese,
regardless who they trully are.
I guessed they are Cantonese, and I am not sure about that when I read your thread.
I believe that the true Viet do not bother to learn Cantonese, or to pretent to be Chinese.
When you say that, have ever you think that you are a little too pround of your Chinese ethnicity?

I did not say anyone is communist.
I said instead, some were called communists, no matter the calling is true or not.

About an ancient Vietnamese famous historian calling ZhaoTuo the first Vietnam king,
he was ignorant then. We can accept the truth that even famous persons can
make mistakes because of their ignorance.

So what? It is understandable the Cantonese in Vietnam and native Viets blend in well due to similar culture and confucian belief. But I still heard some negative comment from Chinese-Vietnamese claiming that the native viet people are "treacherous"and not "trustable". I am not sure if it is right since most of the vietnamese I know are very friendly. But outside of Vietnam, it is totally different story. Most Cantonese want nothing to do with Vietnamese.

I don't agree with you on this issue. Vietnamese historians such as Le Van Huu (12 century) or Ngo Si Lien (15 century) aren't ignorant but have a deep and wise knowlegde of history writing. Calling Zhao Tuo as Dai Viet first emperor maybe offensive to Viets today, but as I already mentioned, it's correct because only some percentage of NanYue were of Chinese origin compared to millions of local Yue in two Guangs in 200 BC.

To DearCoolZ: You should read Chinese or Vietnames historical records to know that Qing Emperor Can Long didn't want to remind Viets of NanYue Kingdom. That's so tacticful!

To RiceCake: I am happy to know there now exists over 50 millions (?) pure NanYue descendants in Guangxi and Guilin. Althought they are in China (I don't know what situation they are now) but it's good because they haven't been assimilated to Han's "culture sea" yet.



I wanna laught... Many Chinese in Vietnam were expelled to China or fled to Western countries in 1978 onwards. Vietnamese are proud of the Vietnamese language and I haven't seen anybody trying to speak Chinese dialect or Cantonese.

Firstly, ancient historians all were ignorant, for although they were wiser than people in their time,
they knowlege was very limited. Besides, they put in their works their dreams and imagination,
thinking that they were true historical facts.

Secondly, I feel very offensive someone calling ZhaoTuo Vietnam king, for I am too proud to accept
the concept of Vietnam being a Chinese nation that could not be Vietnamese in itself.

Thirdly, I feel strongly offensive when other misunderstand that we Vietnamese were from Chinese Yue.
You need to understand that Chinese Yue -- actually were hundreds of Yue -- were the generalized term
for many ethnic groups in south China, including ancient Vietnamese, who were minor group dwelling
merely in Red River Delta alone. We the Vietnamese have never lived in GuangDong and GuangXi.

The lack of historical knowlege causes many Vietnamese to have the same mistake.
The lack of pride adds stronger effect to that result.

Then,laugh at those Northern ETHNIC Viet brethren who did learned to speak Hakka dialect or broken Cantonese in northern Vietnam where you or family have never lived.

Chinese often have many great laughs on how Viets are Chinese-wannabes and FAKED AS Chinese,in America where majority Americans don't like Viets.

We ARE NOT the same ethnic origins,someone like you and other Chinese-blood-infactuated Viets talk crap about " Chinese-Viet " brotherhood in the internet forums.

The ETHNIC Chinese population WAS NEVER huge and many not culturally assimilated through out Vietnam history.Only Hakka-Chinese in Northern part of Vietnam were repatriated and all resettled in Guangxi province,there are close to 1 million ETHNIC Viets REFUSED to stay in their homeland rather FLED TO other countries as " economic refugees " willingly.

If Viets are so proud,WHY constantly bother Chiense race with " Chinese blood-tie " issue knowingly Chinese don't like Viets and why lower yourself in facing Chinese rejection plus why subject to humiliations ?

It is like the Macedonia and the Greece issue. Greece do not recognize the Macedonia because of the Greek consider "Macedonia" as a historical hellenic nation whereas the current Macedonia as a slavic-speaking nation has nothing to do with it.

RICECAKE:

I am Vietnamese Northerner, and I do not know Cantonese or Hakka.
I learnt Mandarin in school as I learnt Russian and Engligh.
I don't think any true Viet want to be Chinese or Chinese like.
Who do you think in this forum is a Chinese-Viet or Viet-Chinese?
If you cannot see that, please, keep your absurd thought for yourself.
Do you know when a person opens a statement to public without careful preparation
how good or how bad he is judged by the public?

For example, how do you like the assumtions:
1- Vietnamese want to be Chinese or Chinese like?
2- Vietnamese learn to speak Cantonese and Hakka language?
3- Americans do not like Vietnamese?
4- Vietnamese refugees are economic refugees?
etc.
From what I see in you, I think you are humiliated to the Americans,
and look down on the Vietnaemse, and more such kind of physolophy.

Nobody tries to raise himself above others without actually lower down himself.

After Vietnam-American war, many Chinese immigrants in Vietnam fled to China.
Most of Chinese in China mainland accepted them as brothers and sisters.
What a shame to those who reject them, thinking that they are economic refugees.
I hope that you are not amongst them, and if you were then, you are no longer now.

(1) What one thinks don't matter as it always prevails in real life and internet forums,otherwise why Chinese only bring up Viets NOT Koreans and Japanese are " Chinese-wannabes ".

(2) What makes you and other Viet posters think there is none Vietnam-born Ethnic Chinese @ CHF,at least one mod here is either US-born with both (or one ) Ethnic Chinese parents from Vietnam or himself/herself was Vietnam-born Ethnic Chinese immigrant from Vietnam at very young age ?

(3) Believe it or not,I have " direct " second-hand sources were born and bred in Northern Vietnam.They've personally encountered a handful of native Ethnic Viets could speak Hakka dialect and broken Cantonese dialect back in the 1930's-1950's.

(4) This hits too close to home for Ethnic Viets,isn't it !

(5) It was news fact,reported in US national media outlets through out the 1980's as " economic refugees " NOT " political asylums " for those had ties to US-backed regime and Communist-feared wealthy families fled S Vietnam in 1975 in fear of prosecution and labor camp.Those ethnic Viets fled Vietnam in later years were great majority lower class population need not feared Communism for they were not on Commies' prosecution list of enemies,they left for economic reasons because the economy was deadlocked.

(6) What Chinese immigrants ? Those Hakka-Chinese families were born and bred in northern Vietnam for generations,get your facts straight before litter this forum with " mis-informations " on ethnic Chinese population in Vietnam.Many of them could barely spoke Vietnamese let alone intermixed with native Viets or culturally assimilated to ethnic Viet population as some of you falsely insinuated.

Those Hakka-Chinese families were peacefully resettled in Guangxi province with proper arrangement by local Chinese authorities,many of them found work at tea farms.

No,they were not treated as economic refugees for your information rather as " victims " of anti-Chinese prosecution overseas.

(1) Absolutely correct,except for maybe a few decent well educated ones.

(2) What a humble statement,the accurate consensus is at least 98%

Un-assimilated " very culturally Chinese " Vietnam-born ETHNIC Chinese are the " best source " on Vietnam and how native Viets are as a people.

"Un-assimilated " very culturally Chinese " Vietnam-born ETHNIC Chinese are the " best source " on Vietnam and how native Viets are as a people."
This is a absolutely ignorant comment to make.
Why Cantonese try to stay away from Vietnamese? Probably because besides cultural difference they have very small physical differences and can be easily mistaken one from the other. But culturally Chinese and physically looked Chinese don't have this fear at all. This is the inferior complex of each individual and have nothing to do with community as a whole.
I've seen northern Vietnamese people trying to speak broken Cantonese but i guess it's for business sake since they are working with Cantonese bosses or have deal with local Chinese across the border . How can people with low education understand history and culture and behave like Chinese wannabes? Make no sense to me.
Why don't you look at the way some overseas Chinese behave like Japanese wannabes? And surely you've heard many harsh comments Japanese bosses made on Chinese workers. It appears to be a culture matter but in fact it's all about economic status.

"(1) But I still heard some negative comment from Chinese-Vietnamese claiming that the native viet people are "treacherous"and " not trustable". "
On the contrary I've heard comments like Vietnamese being ignorant or gullible.

"Most Cantonese want nothing to do with Vietnamese": it's a reciprocal thing. Only a handful of Vietnamese here try to relate Vietnamese to Cantonese anyhow.

It's partly correct but who are they? Can you give me some famous names?



Do you mean Vietnam is a Chinese-spoken nation or Chinese culturally?

As I already stated, most Ou Yue people were from Guangdong and Guangxi, approximately 200 BC because of Qin's conquest of South China that pushed them into Vietnam. You should read legends of Tay, Nung such as "Chín chúa tranh vua" etc... for more information. Of course, there were Ou Yue people living in Vietnam before 200 BC but we can't know whether or not they were locals or immigrants from south China some hundreds years before 200 BC. It may be a mysterious.




I don't think so but as you know "nothing but the truth".

(1) It's absolutely ignorant for ETHNIC Viets even bothered to answer " inaccurate informations " on ETHNIC Chinese population in Vietnam.

(2) Chinese and S Koreans are top-purchasers of Japan-made goods among Asians,but Chinese do not associate with Japanese the same way as some S Koreans see them as their NE Asian inseparatable-twins of identical origin.Chinese don't ever make crap talks to Japanese about their ancient ancestors migrated from blah blah blah part of China or Japanese wouldn't talk crap about blah blah blah Nomadic clans became today's northern Han Chinese might relate to them.

Japanese generally treat Chinese employees very well,so don't litter this forum with falsehoods.I've heard and read Japanese regard Chinese as hardworking,smart,and dirty whereas despicable for Koreans.

(3) Yep,those few are who Chinese wrestle with constantly in internet forums with one Viet poster ( stooped so low ) purposedly aired every Viet family has Chinese relatives on JT forum.

Are you dreaming? In fact, they are very small people who have business with Cantonese. It isn't the essence. I don't care about whether or not Americans like or dislike oversea Vietnamese but Vietnamese are stable in US now. That's good for Vietnam and Vietnamese.




No, I never say that. I only express my opinions on "historical problems". As a matter of fact, Southern Chinese are physically different from Northern Chinese that the Mongolian Yuan in China divided Chinese into four groups: Mongolian, Normadic, Northern Han and Southern Chinese.

The ethnic Chinese in Vietnam is a small group so that no Viets dynasties thought of them as a danger, the "fifth colums". That's why they weren't assimilated to Vietnam through out Vietnam history. But this happened otherwise in 1978 and I think Vietnam's govt. was right to put Chinese back in their real position.

As to Viets live in other countries, it's good.



Wow, Viets are always proud of themselves, especially, eight times of defeating China since 981 to 1979.

(1) I wrote reality as told by direct sources,not deciphered dreams.That's why I only truthfully noted a few hundred ethnic Viets could spoke Hakka dialect and broken Cantonese.

(2) Of-course,these are undeniable historic facts.But,there is one or two here and a few others consistently peddle the idea of non-existent massive Chinese migrations to Vietnam plus total Vietnamization.

Absolutely correct as written in Chinese history texts and passed down by words of mouth by Han Chinese families through generations to this day,our northern Han Chinese ancestors pushed those indigenous Yue tribes farther out and to Vietnam in land-grabbing military conquest.

All Cantonese Chinese are northern Han heritage, just that some mixed with the natives more and some didn't mix as much or not at all.

To those who feel the following apply:

Everything has some beautiful aspects and some ugly ones.
People seeing things with happy eyes see only beautiful aspects, and do not see the ugly ones.
People with unhappy eyes see only ugly things, and cannot see any beautiful things in the world.

That means that you may speak the truth, but not the whole truth.
You speak only the ugly truth, for you do not know the beautiful truth.

Of course there are similiarity between vietnamese and Cantonese since we are both Asian. But the difference is not as small as what you said. Most of the time I can spot a viet easily from far away. I have been to Little Saigon in California many times plus several of my colleagues and friends are also native viet as well, Most of the native viet do not resemble a thing with Cantonese. There were several occasion I mistook some viet as Chinese but turned out the viet were Chinese-Vietnamese in origin who have been assimiliated into vietnamese due to generations of living in vietnam .

The hatred between Cantonese and Vietnamese is nothing special if you look at the greater picture around the world. Neighbor countries generally are not fond of each other due to historical and land dispute
for example Iran and Iraq, Germany and Poland, Israel and Lebanon/Palestine, Japan and Korea, Russia and Ukraine, India and Pakistan, Great Britain and Ireland, Greece and Turkey.



I suggest you not to visit forum hosted in Mainland China if you were able to read Chinese. The word that some of the non-Cantonese Mainland Chinese applied to viet is ten times harsher than from the Cantonese that I wrote previously. I give you a few clue in here. The common term that non-Cantonese mainland Chinese generally use toward the viet is "越南猴子"or literally translated as "vietnamese monkey"(once again, I do not concur with). Some even suggested to re-conquer vietnam and make it annam province
and ethnic-cleansing all indigenous viet people. So be prepared when you talk to any "culturally Chinese and physically looked Chinese".



Well, I must tell you that the cantonese do not have any inferior complex and are very proud of their Huaxia heritage. Just like what Ricecake said aforementioned, it is the vietnamese who are ashamed of their baiyue background and tailing behind the Cantonese and trying hard to climb the ladder to link themselves with the Cantonese people.



There are some Japonphile in the younger generation of Hong Konger and Taiwanese. Most of them are just on cultural trend basis means they want to follow Japanese fashion . TV drama and music. Beside a few older generation of Taiwanese who still reminisce the colonial day of Japan such as Lee Teng-hui and Jin Mei-Ling, I never heard of any Japonphile claim they and the Japanese had any racial bond.



If this is the truth, then please spread it out to your countrymen. Just like what you said, it is a reciprocal thing.

(1) Majority ETHNIC Viets clearly visibly look distintive,some have more indigenous features with others share facial similiarities with Chinese aboriginal minorities in China's SW region

(2) These so-called native Viets of possible Chinese-Viet origin are mainly " mix-offsprings " of Chinese paternal ancestry,this is how a pecerntage of ETHNIC Viets have Cantonese looks.

(3) History of imperial Chinese military aggressions and constant rejection by Han Chinese as " kin ".

(4) Cantonese-Chinese of Hua-Xia origin are proud people,we don't ever fake any heritage bonds with Nomadic brethren in the north or Chinese aboriginal minoritites in the south.

(5) Chinese like to stay as Chinese,no Koreans or Japanese ever label us as " Japanese-wannbes ".

The thought + content of ricecake <-- sounded like previous banned nick Qlittlelemon!

The thought + content of MC420 sounded like Qlittlelemon aka imposter.

You have no right in making this sweeping statement,there are many Chinese people do share exact views as ricacake and redstick426 posters.Sometimes people recycled what other forumers wrote in old postings they've came across.

I am Vietnam-born full blood Cantonese-speaking ethnic Chinese,there are some of us do regular CHF and Asian-oriented forums.

Ricecake holds a very extreme view towards a historical issue. I'm puzzled and wonder if CHF has become a place for "only Chinese" to discuss Chinese history.
Ricecake: Very few Vietnamese ever wants to fake Chinese or want anything to do with Cantonese. Though Vietnamese, and Korean and Japanese were not as civilized as Chinese in the past, Vietnam is now a country with 80 million people and the size of the population alone is a sheer fact to be proud of. I guarantee you Vietnamee hates Chinese as much as Chinese hates Vietnam and also "love" Chinese as much as Chinese "love" Vietnamese. And don't ever think Vietnamese don't have derogatory words for Chinese. It's just a matter of how educated you are to avoid such words in conversations/forum discussions.
About people who try to speak broken Chinese or have Vietnamese features and try to behave Chinese why don't go go ask them if their ancestors are Chinese or not. I assure you no "pure" Vietnamese would do such shameless thing as it opposes to the custom of respecting the ancestors in Vietnam. I think "it's you" who feel ashamed of these mixed brethens of you and it just shows how obsessive you are to Chinese cultures and Chinese values. If you are a Chinese so obsessive to Chinese values and cultures what rights do you have to ban these mixed Chinese from being obsessive to those things?

I came to this forum because I am interested in Chinese culture and history. I am also intrested in parts of Vientamese history from Chinese perspective. I do feel great when I know some of my ancestors came a long way from central China to Guangdong then to Vietnam but it is not because they were Chinese that I feel proud of. They could be anything and I still feel proud because of their courage and determination to leave their home and resettle in a foreign land.

Those Vietnamese who insist that Cantonese has anything to do with Vietnamese probably have been brainwashed with pro-Chinese historical texts. But it's just wrong for you to bring hatred between Cantonese/Chinese towards Vietnamese as counteragruement against their views. Why don't you bring historical facts to counterague like some of the members here instead. I believe the founder of this forum wants people from all corners to disscuss Chinese history as they share a common thing: intrest in Chinese culture and history and don't you think it is more interesting to have different views on the same topic.

Please del this post. Thanks,

I wish you could read Vietnamese to access websites such as www.dominotrungcong.com or www.ttvnol.com/f_533.ttvn to know Vietnamese also dislike Chinese so much. Some people use slangs "Tàu ghẻ", Khựa, Chệt, "Tàu chó chết" (Chinese dog) etc.. to talk about Chinese. Badly enought, the web www.dominotrungcong.com always call to form a Uninon of BaiYue and remind Southern Chinese of former their origin.




You are wrong here. This link would indicate some Cantonese feeling themselves babarians:

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=2287

In above thread, member ShuHan wrote:

"I would like to tell all of you Northerners stop calling us Southern chinese barbarian"

That's a clear evidence that Cantonese have a "inferior complex" so that they, psychologically, try avoiding it by boosting a "superior complex" when they talk of Hua Xia origin or have an illussion of re-conquering Annam that 20 years of Ming's re-assimilation completely failed in the past.

daiviet yes...i am always very pissed when some northerners claim they are "P-U-R-E" and the south inpure.

First of all, Cantonese definately dont feel as they are babarians. Cantonese are as 'Han' as northerners since both have incorporated alot of 'foreign' and so called 'barbaric' blood.

Secondly, that link just shows a particular person's view. It can't be used to represent the whole of the southern Chinese population. (around 500 million people)

I understand that historically (and to some extent presently), Chinese call Vietnamese barbarians but that is no means to try to link Cantonese and other southern Chinese to barbarians.

Northerners are definately not 'pure' or more 'pure' than southerners. Majority of the population in Northern China had fled to the south by the time Mongols established the Yuan dynasty. Since then, the north virtually had to be resettled by southerners and northern barbarians such as Mongolians.