My opinion is that it was able to conquer China.

With the correct preparation, getting a lot of forces of his new empire (indians, persians, bactrians, egyptians, thracians more greeks and more macedonians from home) and with the powerful elephants well used I think that in two or three battles or so the Chinese emperor will be dead or fleeing to the north. Alexander beat the persians in two great battles, in proportions similar to 6 to 1, therefore is very possible that he could conquer China. Nevertheless, when Alexander finished this hypotetical campaign in china and returned to home or died trying it, China will uprise inmediately. And also maintain the control over the huge population it will be practically impossible.

In terms of logistic and weaponries China has the advantage but China at that time was also divided. Alexander is known also for his diplomacy he would surely try to get Chinese allies first before facing who ever dare to opposse him, maybe the Qin. Most of China's military defeat were from turn coats, Generals who swicth side and Alexander will exploite that weakness.

China was in war for hundreds years during that time, and Qin is very well prepared for any invadion, build with super highway to ensure fast response time and logistic supply throughout the nation.

Qin also very skillful in diplomacy, and that is how he divide and concurred the other 6 nations.

Alexander will certainly have a tough time, *if* he can sustain a prolong period of large scale war.

I agree, this will be a Battle of the Century, both are cunning, both are good in diplomcy, the Qin have the weapon technological edge, Alexander have the army size.

Experience wise, I must give Alexander the edge because at his age being much younger than the Qin Emperor he has shown and exhibit great personality and character. Alex was able to expand beyond Greece while the Qin struggle against rebel forces. The biggest determining factor is having the other Chinese States defect to Alexander.

Alexander have the army size? I remember his troop is quite small.

The Qin was so well trained that they at any time can gather a troop with more than 100k in a short period of time.

And it depends a lot on when Alexander reaches China, he might face the old / young Qin Emperro.

Qin wasn't struggle against rebel forces, in fact they are all states to the Zhou and Qin was the smallest to begin with. Qin struggle because everyone was so well preparedand they were all in wars for many years. When Qin became strong enough they other 6 nations tried to team up to against Qin as well,

I just wonder how much difference Alexandra can make if he become the 7th. Unless he can move his entire army from Europe and Centra Asia to China, and with capability for food, weapons and other logistic support, then he can sutain a long period of major warfare against Qin.

Before I start, I want to say that I am not too sure about the passage from Himalayas to Qin’s western borders and I only have a general modern map at this time, so I may be wrong on the geographical points. I am just doing this for fun.

I am not sure where were the best places for Alexander to cross, so I assume he crossed into Tibet and then Szechuan area. He used Indian guides and, then, Tibetan guides. When he arrived in Szechuan, he would use guides of Ba and Shu people as well as Chinese merchants who did business with Ba and Shu. I do know that it was very hard to get in and out of Szechuan, but I figure if Qin could conquer Ba and Shu in Szechuan area, there should be ways to move armies between Szechuan and Qin.

Alexander lived around 356 B.C. to 323 B.C. If he didn’t die till his old age, he would coincide the time frame of Qin’s King Qin Huiwen秦惠文王(ruled from 338 BC until 311 BC ). At this time, Shang Yang reform in Qin had completed, and Shang Yang was killed around 338B.C.

Alexander would be 18 at 338 B.C., and Qin Huiwen was probably around late 20 to early 30 years old considering he died around 311 B.C. Let’s said Alexander did not turn back in India around 326 B.C., and he took 5 years to pass through/conquer North India and arrived at Chinese western border around 321 B.C. Qin should be in a fairly stable state politically. Shang Yang had died 17 years ago, and whatever political fall out should be settled long ago. Any nobilities who want to turn back the reform bills would have been dealt with long ago, and the whole kingdom of Qin was under reform law for the last 35 years. 35 years was enough time for at least two generations of soldiers to grow up under the Qin’s military doctrines and farmers and craftsmen to function smoothly under Qin’s laws. The public works from the reform would have increased the food supply and the ease of transportation. It also increased the Qin population. In addition, the Qin’s borders and cities were well sealed from spies of other countries, especially the ones who are more foreign than the other 6 kingdoms. All in all, Qin had become an efficient war machine. (Note: In real history, Qin defeated the armies from 5 eastern kingdoms 3 years later.)

At 321 B.C., Alexander would be 35 years old, and the Qin Huiwen was probably around 45 or 47 years old. Alexander would be in his prime, and Qin Huiwen was probably more mature but getting into old age.

I assume Alexander had brought a combined army of Greek, Persian, and Indian, but he did not bring elephants because they couldn’t get over the Himalayas. The horses might also have a problem passing through the Himalayas. He might end up with very few horses. He probably made alliances with the local Tibetans and the tribes/states of Ba and Shu after he passed through Himalayas and had them in his army also. I believe the local tribes of Tibet, Ba, and Shu would feel threatened by his army and more willing to negotiate than to fight. Ba and Shu would have local knowledge about Qin, and they were Qin’s enemies anyway. (Note: In real history, Qin conquered Ba and Shu in the next 100 years.)

Alexander would set up a base in Szechuan area where Ba and Shu were because it had plenty of food and water. He needed to rest his army and to gather information about this new area. I think he would probably marry some Ba and/or Shu princesses and send his spies inland with Ba or Shu merchants or Han (no Han yet, but…) merchants who trade with Ba or Shu. He would probably make alliances with the other kingdoms to attack Qin. Since the other kingdoms already planning to attack Qin in 3 years, he was just in time.

I believe if Alexander hided his presence in Ba and Su area, he might be able to make a sneak attack on Qin when the 5 kingdoms were attacking Qin. Thus, Alexander could cause major damage and even conquer Qin. It may be hard, but Qin’s attention would be on the east (the other 6 kingdoms) and north side (XunNu), not on the southwest. Qin might ignore the danger from Ba and Shu because they were smaller and weaker kingdoms and more like barbaric tribes. In addition, if Alexander had information of how Qin's army fight in battles and Qin's army did not know how Alexander's army's fighting style, it would be a great disadvantage for Qin. Alexander could design shields and armors to protect his soldiers fom Qin's weapon, nu, as well as design strategies to avoid battle face to face with Qin's army. Alexander could very well succeed in defeating Qin's army.

Alexander’s Persian and Indian troops would probably fare well in Szechuan area, but his Greek troop might have a problem. I assume the ones left were the hardier ones who could get through Indian and Himalayas. Therefore, they might not totally die out. The supplies for men are probably OK because Szechuan is a fairly fertile country. The horses might have a problem.

Alexander could re-supply his horses through alliances with XunNu or some local great horse merchants, like Mr. Wu’s family. He could also involved XunNu in his attack of Qin.

If he conquered Qin around 318 B.C., he would be able to settle in for a while to assimilate his new kingdom while preparing for further campaign on the other 6 kingdoms. I don’t think the other 6 kingdoms or the Qin people would rise up and unite to fight this foreign army. First, there was no real solid concept of China at the time. Second, the ethnic of Chinese were also not settled. There were many different races in the 7 kingdoms. Third, the 6 kingdoms were busy fighting each other, and they generally look down on any barbarian kingdoms. If Alexander pretended he was satisfied with the land of Qin, it was possible that the other kingdoms wouldn’t pay too much attention to him. Forth, the Qin people was under a very controlled society for the last 35 years, and, as long as Alexander kept the bureaucrat system going like he did in Persia, he would have no trouble with people of Qin. I believe it might take him only 5 years to be ready to start his campaign to conquer the rest of China. That would be 313 B.C. when he was 43 years old. He would be not too old to get on with his campaign for another 17 years.

Now, it would be the tricky part. I don’t think he could conquer the rest of China before his death, but his children might be able to do so. If he died in his 60’s, his son would be in his late 20’s. Also, he might have other sons from his Persian, Indian, and Chinese concubines. He could do the same thing as Genghis Khan and divide his empires among his sons and/or generals. The great empire may get divided, but all empires fell. The son and grandson who stayed in China would probably have Chinese blood in them. With their mother’s and their mother’s family’s help, they should be able to conquer China eventually with the help of original Qin’s technology and resources. By that time, the descendents of Alexander the Great would look and behave more like Chinese than Greek. As Alexander conquered China, China will conquer his sons. The End.

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The other possibility is that Alexander tried the sneak attack and encountered the Qin's weapon of nu. Alexander and XunNu's combined army suffered great loss, and Alexander got killed by nu because he liked to fight in the front. His army disintegrated. Some would try to go back to their homeland and died on their way. Some would go with XunNu and join them. And some would settle in Szechuan or Tibet with the tribesmen. The End.

Very good explanation, but perhaps the route it will be from the south, not from the north. First Alexander it will conquered the rest of india, and probably passed by actual myanmar into china. And by this route, elephants perhaps can pass, Hannibal maked it by the alps. Then I assume that he can conquer the Qin, but I'am sceptic that his sons can conquer the rest of china. Perhaps a general/governor or a son will take the power, but in 30-40 years the other kingdoms can defeat the new Greekochinese kingdom.

I didn't think of the southern route because I thought Alexander would be too old to get to China if he spent time to conquer all of India. There were a lot of kingdoms in India at that time, and he was far away from the south end of India. I am assuming that after his major battles in in the northwest of India, the other northern India kings got scared and decided to surrender to his force and let his force through to Himalayas. In this way, he would not spend too much time in conquering India. Also, he went through to Tibet on the paths where Dalai Lama went from Tibet to India. I guess Alexander's soldier should be able to go throught the route where lots of Tibetan woman and children went throught. If not because of the time constraint, I thought your suggestion could be good. I like the idea of using elephants in the battles between Alexander's army and Qin army.

I just thought about something. How about not conquering the whole India, but transport his soldiers from the north of India to the south by sea. Then goto myanmar that way. It's a thought.

I also think it was possible that in 30-40 years the other kingdoms could defeat the new Greek Chinese kingdom, but that would need some serious manuvering among the kingdoms. That would be another story.....

Ha, ha, ha
Ah you guys try to replace History with historical fiction? This thread is always funny

Even though the thread is full of fiction and hypotheticals, I think it addresses some historic realities, mainly the limitations of Alexander's army and his logistic capabilities/limitations and China's geographic advantages that afforded it such defensive insularity. Truth can come out of fiction, though fiction can also create unfounded truths.

I like both history and historical fictions. In my mind, all history records are historical fictions in some degrees. That's what made history fun.

It's too bad that I could not make these hypotheses well enough due to the limitations of my knowledge and time.

Good artical, I must say. But too many assumption.

Let says he managed to by-pass Qin and reach Ba Su.

He will be surprised that Qin is already preparing war against him and entire Ba Su falls into Qin control in 316BC.

公元前316年，秦惠文王更元九年，遣張儀、司馬錯等攻蜀，滅蜀，貶蜀王為侯。同年滅苴（今四川昭化東南），滅巴（都城在今重慶嘉陵江北岸，此前巴國亦曾受楚國侵壓）。

I think majority would agree that Alexander's greatest obstacle of defeating the Qin or conquering China is logistics. In fact, not only logistically will be Alexander's problem but loyalty of his army. Many times his military generals have mutiny aginst him and many times he put them down. But the greatest obstacle IMO will be defeating and conquering all of India first before he could successfully conquer China.

Alexander's army turn back after conquering part of India because many of the Indian clans have put up stiff resistance. This resulted in many of his generals not wanting to advance any further, with majority of Alexander's generals voting against further conquest on India Alexander surrender to their wishes and turn back.

I guess we can assume, that if Alexander had succeeded in conquering all of India there will be a high degree that he will advance towards China and could succeed in defeating the Qin and gaining control of China. Because the Qin which maybe consider the strongest State in ancient China was still fighting to unit of all China and have not advance against India, maybe it is because Indian clans military were deem too strong or maybe the Qin was satisfied with their borders.

Assuming that Alexander's generals have the same will, ambition and fortitude as him I think, the Qin will be in big trouble. Alexander's army because they would have access to thousands of war elephants and soldiers of Indians, Persians, Greeks and Macedonians, this will greatly outnumbered the Qin in fire power and in manpower. Startegist wish, both Alexander and the Qin would probably in equal footings but Alexander will have the edge in power and force.

For the Qin to defeat Alexander, they must gain or allied with strong Indian clans.

If according to your logic, China didn't advance against India is because Indian were too stong.

Then similary India doesn't advance against China. What does that mean?

We do not want to speculate who is stronger here.

Alexander almost get himself killed when trying to concur India, his chance of success is very low in China, even if he was able to bring all his Elephants over the Himalaya. Unless, Elephants doesn't need to eat. Logistic problem is still a major issue Alexander needs to overcome.

Then only he will face what we have discussed earlier.
1. Great Wall surrounding Cities.
2. Military super highway and cannels for logistic and food supply (guarantee food supply)
3. Military workshop with quality control (guaranteed weapon supply)
4. Army with ranking.
5. Crossbow with shooting range of 1000 feet
6. Highly mobility army and fight against the normad (Xiong Nu)
7. Highly prepared for large scale and prolong warfare.

I do not want to predict who will win, but these are not something that Alexander had faced before.

That is why Alexander need to conquer India first if he succeed in India then there is a good chance he will succeed against the Qin. But, he failed to conquered India and had to turn back because his generals were getting tired plus Indian clans are putting up strong resistance. The Qin on the other hand in order to stop or defeat Alexander, the Qin must be able to unite all of China and have a united army against Alexander just like the Greeks against Persia, a divided Greece was nearly defeated by a larger Persian army but a united Greece was able to defeat a much larger Persian army.

IMHO:

1. A major warfare is warfare of resources. If you are weaker than your enemy, having a larger size do helps a lot. That is why WWII Germany and Japan failed to concur Russia and China in a short time, and they have been dragged to failure.

2. When two equal power went into conflicts, the one which can get adequate re-supply fast will win, regardless of how much lost it suffer initially. Japan (by that time, Japan had concurred major part of China, Philippines and whole S.E.A) vs US during WWII?

3. If both parties do not have adequate supply, or both have plenty of supply. Regardless their strength and size, they will go into major problem and the war will be dragged on for a long time. Look at US in Korean / Vietnam War, compare to US in Iraq.

By the time Alexander reaches China, he has to face the strongest Qin which is at its peak and with almost unlimited supply (regardless of whether it had re-united the other 6 nations).So, things still doesn’t look good for Alexandra.

Good points. That's why I mentioned Alexander would need to regroup and build alliances with people in Ba and Shu areas to establish a good and solid supply lines before even think of attacking Qin in my posting.

You know, this question is a prediction, it's quite hard to say anyway.

Judging by Alexander the Great's power and the ability to conquer a large empire and also the strong forces of the states in China, it is quite hard to say. However, in my opinion, I can say that China will have a disadvantage. Why do I say so? Well, it is because the states of China in the ancient days are not united with one another and they kept fighting against one another, just for one motive: wielding power. They all wanted to vanish the other states and become the Conqueror of China, that's why if an alien force (let's say Alexander the Great's army) attacked them, the kings of the states might not work very well with one another in joining their forces to deal with the alien force of Alexander the Great, they always fighting with one another. It is quite hard for enemies to be able to work with one another in times of desperate situations. In that situation, I predict that it would be quite impossible for them to pit their strengths against Alexander the Great.

However, if the kings of the states can put away their personal feuds and work together as one, they should have no problem winning against Alexander the Great's army. Moreover, China, as a country, is known for producing lots of military advisers and great commanders in the ancient times, and if they can think of brilliant ideas to defeat Alexander the Great's army, China would definitely have a large chance of winning.

Hard to say, really. History's over.

first and 4most i'd like to appoligise for not reading all of the post but my thoughts on this are

1. there is no way Allexanders army could go through the steppes fist obstacle Persian nomads second Huns
2. The cavalary would have had extreme problems in the Indian sub continent(hummid + jungle)

The fact is that The Qin would have won but Allexander never could reach China


or am I wrong

There were a lot of problems for Alexander to reach China, but I think we are assuming the possibility that he did reach China. Then, what would happen? My solution for how he got there was:

1. Alexander's army did not turn back.
2. Alexander did not die at the time he died.
3. The Northern Indian kings decided to be friends with Alexander instead of enemies and let his army go through to China via Himalaya mountain -- the same path as the one used by Dala Lama to get to India from China.

Even then, his army would be greatly reduced. No elephants could be brought over. The horses also probably all died. Therefore, he need to recruit locals and rebuild his army before he could go on. The rest of the ways to China, I assume he built alliances with Tibetans and ancient Sichuan people.

That would mean he couldn't use his hammer and anvil tactic anymore as the locals were not trained for phalanx. That means he would have lost his best weapon which basically made him what he was.

Let's assume he could brought the phanlanx over, then he would face a terrible weapon called crossbow, which might or might not be able to punch thru the phanlanx's defence, but it would most definitely pin and wear them down.

If the crossbow could not deter him, his opponent could always go guerrilla, hunting down phanlanxes one by one, and he would have a hard time to resupply, then we are back to square one, namely, could he had brought the phanlanxes over. In addition, phanlanxes were not invincible as they couldn't conquer Rome, while still led by a military genius.

If he overcame the supply problem, he would still face a more mobile army vis-a-vis his. A mobile army with lots of choke points through the Ba Shu path would be a dangerous combination. Furthermore, the China armies at that time were used to close quarter combat as well was combat at range, it was nomadic tactic that was giving them trouble. How much of an adventage would the phanlanxes have over Chinese Ji or swordmen is unclear.

Let's assume, the phanlanxes did have an adventage over Chinese infantry, as they were formed by citizens, highly trained and provided that they didn't suffer from the long march and home-sickness, thus maintaining good morale (for they were magically shiped over to China), and passed all the choke points, they would be facing a whole new set of terrains, which include huge rivers, plains, hills etc. Such a small force of Alexander could easierly be surrounded by a much larger army or armies. They didn't even have to engage him and let him strave to death.

Should the Chinese armies chooce to engage, as chances were good for they outnumbered him, and assume that they suffered defeat(s), they would still have a place to fall back on and reorg, as Chinese kingdoms were much better organized then Persia, which was slave-based. This again begs the question of how could Alexander resupply his phanlanxes or any other kind of troops?

For those who say Alexander would have an adventage over China, this will be the fundemental question you need to solve.

Rather than assuming Alexander could actually conquer China, why don't we step back and assess Alexander's Empire's defense infrastructure compared to the kingdom of Qin alone?
Even if we were to pit the entire Macedonian Empire against the Qin kingdom at this period, its difficult to say the former would be victorious. First, Alexander never established a organized bureaucracy over his empire, the total force at his disposal by the time of his death was no more than 100,000. Universal conscription was not practiced. This stood in Contrast with the Qin state. Although it only has a population of around 4 million(Zhongguo FenshengQu Lishirenkoukao) it had arguably the most sophisticated bureaucracy in the world, with a systematic tax collection system. Its possible that the Qin state's budget exceed the entire Macedonian empire for this reason alone.
More importantly, the Qin practiced universal conscription. According to Su Qin, even the state of Wei could muster over 700,000 soldiers if it mobilize its entire population. The Qin could muster upwards of a million, which far outnumber the amount of soldiers that Alexander has even though the later controlled some 18 million subjects.
Furthermore, Alexander's Macedonian Empire, with its weak institution and national diversity, is fragile and bound to break up with only a few major defeats(as the Persian Empire has.) This would not be the case with the Qin or any of the other warring states kingdoms, which suffered numerous heavy defeats without collapsing. One just have to look at the resilience of the Wei state, first suffering gui ling in 353, then suffering ma ling in 351, then to Qin in 350, and constantly encroached by Qin afterwards until in 294, it suffered another crushing defeat said to cost the life of 240,000 Wei and Han soldiers. Yet it held on to its existence.

One just have to remember how the Roman Republic in 191 BC defeated the Seleucid Empire of Antiochus III(commonly compared to Alexander the Great because of his achievements). The Roman Republic also only has a population of only around 5 million, compared to the Seleucid Empire, which inherited most of Alexander's Empire except Greece and Egypt. Yet the Roman Empire could mobilize better, was more resilient, and hence won in just one battle; that of Thermopylae.

Do me a favor and read my previous post again. You don’t seem to understand the essence of international relations. There is much more to diplomacy than a skilled diplomat. Diplomats are only an instrument of advancing a country’s position that was already pretty much determined. Much more important to a country’s success is its own power. No matter whom the diplomat is, a threat given by the United States would weigh much more than a threat given by France today. And Alexander’s threats would similarly weigh far less than the Qin’s threats for the simple reason that the other states knows Qin better and would fear it more.

Furthermore, you still forget that language barrier and cultural differences are further handicaps to Macedonian success. And what made you think that Zhang Yi, one of the two legendary diplomats in warring would be lose to Alexander’s diplomats, who knows virtually nothing about China?

Assumed Alexander the Great was successful in getting a foot hold in some part of China, the end result nowadays would not be that different that that of other foreign conquest! Maybe we will have faintly Greek looking Han-Chinese who claims of millenium old ancestral origin from Europe.
Or even worse, part of Alexander the Great empire may become sinicized, and the people there may speak a different dialect of Chinese!
This is a very strong possibility IF he had conquered China.

Yes very nice topic and all here in forum! Nice also the answers who give us many ways of thinking.

By mine, Chinese like Greeks, very ancient Civilization will be not go on this way. I believe that they will don't go on fight.

Is kind right that someone say, that his army will not follow him after the known world. But wrong also!

Alexander has no plan to attack china or to go till there! Alexander back at this time to conqueror some west parts of Europe that left. Alexander The Great has a plan! Him plan is to conqueror all the world and set NO boarders, no wars and no more barbarian nations. Do you notice that Alexander the Great don't kill an-armed people and also they don't force nations to change them religions and languages. He want to conqueror the base barbarian nations and then to conqueror with no war other lands so the result to be setting up peace deals. Mind that Alexander defaet India but they he don't conqueror it. Cuz they find dealing there.

With Greeks the numbers of armies is not that important. Remember that Greek kings, leaders and commanders they should be in the FIRST line! Not like the rest nations who they are somewhere else... or even not there.

If Greeks invaded China... Maybe will cuz of chinese disturb on Hellenistic lands. Chinese was broken at this time and it will be very easy for Qin to deal with Greeks and make a campaign to Conqueror China. Qin will follow the plan of Alexander The Great and will realize it in all East Asia with the known Greek army (that is by his side). Also don't forget that already Conquerored the biggest in population country, the India.

This is just my opinion! I believe that Alexander The Great will never attack countries or empires that they have not disturb him. At the moment that Alexander The Great die he go back. Already some of his Army are on the way for Greece, they go to them homes in the Region of Macedonia and rest Greece.

But if he go till China, i believe that Qin will continue his dream to East Asia.

You are all still assuming that if Alexander invaded China it would have been a big event in Chinese history. Yet all the evidence points to the contrary, his army, even if reaching China would be so weak and insufficient that it would have only went down in the Chinese annuals as another petty barbarian raid, if it would be documented at all.

Dude, Alexander hardly 'conquered' India. Saying that Alexander 'conquered' India is as laughable as saying that the Persians conquered Europe, simply because they raided Thrace.

What he did do was subdue some minor Indic tribes and kingdoms, viz. in the Kamboj and Gandhara, on India's frontier. Even these small little city-states effectively destroyed the Alexandrian armies as a fighting force.