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Full Version: Making the Korean Hwacha (火車) Rocket Launcher
China History Forum, Chinese History Forum > Off Topic Heaven > Asian History and Culture
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Liang Jieming
Ok, gotta start sometime... before General Turtle gets mad at me. tongue.gif

some cheap advertising...
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Coming soon to a Thread Near You!
Featuring the Korean Terror Weapon of the Imjin War!
The scourge of the Japanese samurai... the Hwacha!

Akan Datang ke milis berdekatan anda!
Mempersembahkan senjata gempar Korea, peperangan Imjin!
Kebencian pahlawan samurai Jepun... Hwacha!
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snowybeagle
Uhm, are you going to use real explosives in that?
Liang Jieming
well.... cny is around the corner and...
snowybeagle
Oh yes, CNY is round the corner and you'll be going back to Malaysia, right? *phew*

A video recording will do ... okay?
Gubook Janggoon
Just don't get yourself arrested :]
Liang Jieming
Hehehe, well when I go back for CNY, I can get the rocket type fireworks so it should be fun just buying a whole bunch of them and slotting them into the model and launching them in sequence. The tricky part would be to get the fuses tied in a bunch to be lighted. ;-)

Don't know if I can get the model ready by CNY but if I could it should be a blast lighting them during the reunion dinner. hehehehe

Too bad SG doesn't allow the rocket types anymore and I'll only be able to do this in MY.
Liang Jieming
Ok, let's start.

My exploded hwacha.

Yang Zongbao
Picutre not working D:
caocao74
Are there records of the Hwacha being used in combat? And if so what were the results?
Gubook Janggoon
QUOTE(caocao74 @ Jan 15 2006, 07:39 AM) [snapback]4783765[/snapback]
Are there records of the Hwacha being used in combat? And if so what were the results?



They were supposedly used on the northern frontier against the Jurchens to good effect.

The most famous example though would be the Battle of Haengju Sanseong during the Imjin Waeran. According the Turnbull, the Japanese marched up the mountain side/fortress in massed formations hoping to outnumber and overwhelm the defenders. This created an ideal situation for the Hwacha, which proceeded to mow down the Japanese.
ChiangAP
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Jan 15 2006, 07:41 AM) [snapback]4783679[/snapback]
My exploded hwacha.


Did it really? blink.gif
Yang Zongbao
He meant an exploded view. laugh.gif

Though I thought Liang really did make and FUBAR a Hwacha before I saw the picture laugh.gif
Liang Jieming
QUOTE(ChiangAP @ Jan 16 2006, 06:58 AM) [snapback]4783843[/snapback]
Did it really? blink.gif


江阿伯... you're funny. tongue.gif
General_Zhaoyun
Moved to asian history as it's related to Korean weaponry and not chinese weaponry.
Liang Jieming
16th January 2006 - Gathered the material I need


17th January 2006 - Cut and machining the pieces. Discovered that a 100 holes for the 100 rockets for authenticity was not feasible at this scale. The wood kept splitting. Reduced the number down to 27 holes instead.
浪淘音
QUOTE(General_Zhaoyun @ Jan 16 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]4783890[/snapback]
Moved to asian history as it's related to Korean weaponry and not chinese weaponry.


but this specific piece of korean weaponry is based off of Chinese weaponry. i don't understand why you chose to move it to another forum
Gubook Janggoon
QUOTE(浪淘音 @ Jan 16 2006, 07:48 PM) [snapback]4784123[/snapback]
but this specific piece of korean weaponry is based off of Chinese weaponry. i don't understand why you chose to move it to another forum



Probably because Liang's building the Korean version of the weapon which is different structurally from the Chinese Huoche.

Perhaps Liang should get his own special forum for all of his amazing projects though?
Liang Jieming
QUOTE(Gubook Janggoon @ Jan 17 2006, 01:41 PM) [snapback]4784149[/snapback]
Perhaps Liang should get his own special forum for all of his amazing projects though?

no.gif That's what I tried suggesting earlier but was ignored. ranting.gif

rolleyes.gif tongue.gif
Liang Jieming
18th January 2006 - Multi-tube launcher head assembly completed.
caocao74
I hope you're making it out of wood for autheniticity not as an attempt to smuggle it past airport security! biggrin.gif
Liang Jieming
19th January 2006 - Chassis and undercarriage completed. Started on the wheels with a rough cut done.


QUOTE
I hope you're making it out of wood for autheniticity not as an attempt to smuggle it past airport security! biggrin.gif


Now really. Can you imagine bringing out a 6 inch tall hwacha model, going up to an airstewardess and saying, "Tell your pilot this is a hijack. I've got a Hwacha and I'm not afraid to use it." ?
urofpersia
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Jan 19 2006, 10:09 AM) [snapback]4784649[/snapback]
Now really. Can you imagine bringing out a 6 inch tall hwacha model, going up to an airstewardess and saying, "Tell your pilot this is a hijack. I've got a Hwacha and I'm not afraid to use it." ?



Why not? Its even sized to fit the aisle easily. With 27 barrels it qualifies as a Weapon of Mass Destruction. I can just see the stewardess swooning over your 6" weapon.
snowybeagle
Just a reminder guys - airline and airport staff are instructed to TREAT EVERY MENTION OF BOMB/HIJACK/WEAPON as a REAL THREAT.

No room is allowed for any such mentions to be a joke by the law.

Liang, if you plan to travel with the parts you made, whether by trains, planes or automobile, my suggest is be sure to declare them or write to the authorities in advance.

We have noted how even the authorities in Singapore can be ... how should I put it ... can miss following the correct procedure, especially when the circumstances are not common.

As for the authorities over in Malaysia, I will leave that to your judgment as you would know better than me. wink.gif
Liang Jieming
Hehehe but of course. But I doubt my models will be doing much travelling. They look too pretty on my shelves. tongue.gif

Anyway, back to the hwacha, I fitted both halves together lastnight and slotted in bamboo sticks. Looks really cool. I can't wait to finish this hwacha. It's been the most fun model to build yet. wink.gif

I also just updated my writings on the Huo Che to include in a portion of Admiral ZhengHe's voyages in A.D. 1405-1433 where his ships were armed not only with cannon and guns but also with rockets. I haven't found any info on the type of rockets yet but the best bet is probably either chinese huo che batteries or at the least handheld launchers. smile.gif

QUOTE
I can just see the stewardess swooning over your 6" weapon.

Ahem... I'm afraid the poor stewardess will just have to be satisfied with your lack of weapon. My gf has rights on mine. wink.gif
urofpersia
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Jan 19 2006, 11:27 AM) [snapback]4784666[/snapback]
Ahem... I'm afraid the poor stewardess will just have to be satisfied with your lack of weapon. My gf has rights on mine. wink.gif


Whatever are you talking about?? some people... dirty minds. rolleyes.gif
Liang Jieming
Huh? What's wrong with my gf liking and claiming ownership of my hwacha? tsk tsk tsk. Some people. Must be all that porn in your computer messing your brain.
urofpersia
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Jan 19 2006, 01:14 PM) [snapback]4784682[/snapback]
Huh? What's wrong with my gf liking and claiming ownership of my hwacha? tsk tsk tsk. Some people. Must be all that porn in your computer messing your brain.


Oh, you mean those lewd pictures you sent me? I have already deleted them like so much SPAM. The depravity of some people... rolleyes.gif
Liang Jieming
yucky.gif yucky.gif yucky.gif
Liang Jieming
20th January 2006 -Wheels and entire chassic completed. Rockets now being constructed.


Boy am I glad I didn't go with a 100 rockets. Just cutting 27 sticks and sharpening them made my hand go numb. tongue.gif
Gubook Janggoon
Oh man that's pretty. icon15.gif
Anthrophobia
Oh jeez, how did you make the wheels! So jealous am I...
snowybeagle
Liang, you need to keep in mind the fable told of Li Bai and grinding of the iron pestle into a needle wink.gif

Anyway, the only fault I can find with your models is that none of them are painted.

I am not sure if there is any historical reference you can find, but sometimes the paintwork would also reveal certain interesting facts about historical artefacts.
Liang Jieming
I must say I'm really, really having loads of fun making this model. Not sure why but this has been a real pleasure to construct. Maybe it because it's so different from the others.

I was going to go with some hard carving of the original wooden discs I bought for the wheel to get a solid, integral whole but after carving two triangles I found it too tediously hard. I slipped a fine saw into the hole and cut out the circular ring "tires" instead, and used square pieces to make the spokes. You can see these processes in the photos from complete disc to circular ring and the final wheel. smile.gif

Painted? I'm not sure many of these catapults were actually painted. Unlike European siege engines, wars in China were not quite, 1. frequent enough, 2. based on nationalist/factional pride, to warrant much attention to painting or even naming catapults simply because catapults were usually only built just for a particular battle or siege and except for really large mobile catapults, seldom have I read that they were stored for later use unlike say, the records from the Tower of London for storage of Springalds and other arms. Chinese armies are a lot more like modern armies today in their treatment of arms and soldiers too. Arms were probably massed produced based on standard designs, so unlike European records of huge singular and personalised catapults belonging to various strongmen and their castles getting names like Warwulf etc, the Chinese seldom if ever put personal names on their catapults. If anything, naming would follow official names or be just pet names given by the soldiers themselves, kinda like the artillery pieces of modern armies.
Liang Jieming
QUOTE(Gubook Janggoon @ Jan 20 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]4784910[/snapback]
Oh man that's pretty. icon15.gif

Hey, it's your heritage man.
caocao74
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Jan 19 2006, 11:09 AM) [snapback]4784649[/snapback]
Now really. Can you imagine bringing out a 6 inch tall hwacha model, going up to an airstewardess and saying, "Tell your pilot this is a hijack. I've got a Hwacha and I'm not afraid to use it." ?


Why not? You're not allowed real knives now and I lost a pair of paper scissors to security at Kansai airport last year biggrin.gif
Liang Jieming
22nd January 2006 - Done!












Korean Hwacha "Huo Che" A.D. 1451 : Completed 22nd January 2006.
Gubook Janggoon
Nice :]

It's kind of funny, you finished on my birthday.
浪淘音
that is awesome!

too bad its not functional, eh? post-81-1094881491.gif
caocao74
QUOTE(Gubook Janggoon @ Jan 23 2006, 04:01 AM) [snapback]4785467[/snapback]
Nice :]
It's kind of funny, you finished on my birthday.



Many Happy Returns GJ!! biggrin.gif
Liang Jieming
QUOTE(Gubook Janggoon @ Jan 23 2006, 03:01 AM) [snapback]4785467[/snapback]
Nice :]

It's kind of funny, you finished on my birthday.

Well, happy birthday then! We'll nickname the Hwacha "Janggoon" in your honour. smile.gif

QUOTE(浪淘音 @ Jan 23 2006, 03:26 AM) [snapback]4785478[/snapback]
that is awesome!

too bad its not functional, eh? post-81-1094881491.gif

no.gif technically, it is functional. All I need are rockets. tongue.gif CNY is next week. Can get rockets then. I made it larger than my usual scale to accomodate CNY rockets. wink.gif
snowybeagle
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Jan 20 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]4784921[/snapback]
Painted? I'm not sure many of these catapults were actually painted.

OTOH, would not unpainted wood become very rough to handle?
What would happen to them after the battles? Serve as firewood?
Liang Jieming
Hehehe, soldiers are supposed to be tough. tongue.gif

Even in Europe, most catapults were built on the spot. They don't exactly spend a lot of time painting them just prior to a battle. wink.gif

... and yeah, they probably made nice big bonfires at the end of the day.
Moose
QUOTE(snowybeagle @ Jan 22 2006, 08:19 PM) [snapback]4785574[/snapback]
OTOH, would not unpainted wood become very rough to handle?
What would happen to them after the battles? Serve as firewood?


Yup, then they have a big BBQ with marshmallows afterwards smile.gif
Yang Zongbao
Superb!

The Jangooncha!
caocao74
Liang, or anyone out there, what is the difference (if any) between a hwacha and a shin ki chon??
Liang Jieming
Hurrrph. This coming from a Korean/Japanese historian.

A Hwacha is the launcher. Shinkichon is the generic name for rockets of all types. wink.gif
caocao74
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Feb 8 2006, 01:10 AM) [snapback]4788853[/snapback]
Hurrrph. This coming from a Korean/Japanese historian.



Yes, but you're the one in love with artillery. biggrin.gif
Liang Jieming
hehehe ok point taken.

BTW, go read my write-up on the huoche. I have a portion on the hwacha and the shinkichon they fire. smile.gif
caocao74
QUOTE(Liang Jieming @ Feb 8 2006, 01:26 AM) [snapback]4788860[/snapback]
BTW, go read my write-up on the huoche. I have a portion on the hwacha and the shinkichon they fire. smile.gif



Yes sir! en route now!! biggrin.gif
Asian Power
Hi.

What type of gunpowder would you use for LAUNCHING (not exploding) things? Also, do you need any license or any validation to buy gunpowder?
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