Yun, I've found an image of Ming cavalry dating from the early years of the dynasty. The horses are depicted in full lamellar armour, the riders are also armoured and wielding long hafted swords. I was always under the impression that Ming horses were unarmoured, any comments on this?

Much appreciated.

"Many of these show soldiers in two layers of armour--usually a lamellar or brigandine vest with mail worn underneath. But I've seen others depicting soldiers in mail over a thick padded jacket, with metal scales stitched to the sleeves."

Conan, I've never seen pictures of Chinese in mail armor before, could you post them please? The padded armor+mail+scales is also something I don't think I've ever seen before.

I've only seen the usual lamellar/brigandine stuff.
I could host the images for you if you email them.

IPB Image

The horse armour is almost identical to that illustrated in the Wujing Zongyao, and also to the painting where your avatar comes from - a Song depiction of the Tang general Guo Ziyi receiving the allegiance of Uyghur troops. So it is clearly a Song style of horse armour. It's also seen in the Cai Wenji scroll, which supposedly models its cavalry armour on contemporary Song and Jurchen armies. That distinctive crest on the horse's head is always there.

I don't know if this style survived into the Ming - closer dating of that picture would help.

Thomas,

Are those Ming swords of all metal construction, or are my eyes fooling me?

TMPikachu, this description of Chinese soldiers from 1415 might interest you...

Filling the courtyard, were long ranks of our Chinese soldiers in shining helmets and coats of mail, with spears, swords, bows and arrows, looking martial and lusty.

So these were Chinese soldiers in India?

this ambassador is very proud of his country

So these were Chinese soldiers in India?

also, I remember seeing posted here a few months ago, it was a suit of armor. Had a helmet with the 'wings' at the sides and I think the body armor was chain-and-lamellar. Like small metal squares linked by mail. Do any of you remember where that image came from, or have it saved?

Could somebody shed light on the "Willow Leaf armour" of the Ming period?

Have you taken pictures, or could you tell me where it could be found?

The horse armour is almost identical to that illustrated in the Wujing Zongyao, and also to the painting where your avatar comes from - a Song depiction of the Tang general Guo Ziyi receiving the allegiance of Uyghur troops. So it is clearly a Song style of horse armour. It's also seen in the Cai Wenji scroll, which supposedly models its cavalry armour on contemporary Song and Jurchen armies. That distinctive crest on the horse's head is always there.

I don't know if this style survived into the Ming - closer dating of that picture would help.

I'm looking for information on Ming armour 1368-1500. I can find a very few relevant illustrations from this period, and most of them depict mythical figures or heavenly beings. Many of these show soldiers in two layers of armour--usually a lamellar or brigandine vest with mail worn underneath. But I've seen others depicting soldiers in mail over a thick padded jacket, with metal scales stitched to the sleeves.

Are their any sources I can consult/research to find out more?

Much appreciated.

TMPikachu, this description of Chinese soldiers from 1415 might interest you...

Filling the courtyard, were long ranks of our Chinese soldiers in shining helmets and coats of mail, with spears, swords, bows and arrows, looking martial and lusty.

Source: The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204-1760

This is a record from a Chinese ambassador in India.