Imagine two scenarios:
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
Will the child be recognized by other Chinese as full Chinese or not?
2. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, settles down, begins to feel at home and lives for long years there. One day he wakes up and feels Chinese, so he decides to apply for the citizenship of the PRC resp. the ROC.
Will it be granted by the Chinese authorities? And, more importantly, will be recognized as full Chinese, if I may say so, by the Chinese, his neighbours, his work colleagues, his friends?
I am asking these questions against the background of the frequent assertion that "to be Chinese" is much, much more a cultural than an ethnic thing. If so, then there shouldnt be much of a problem with a blonde and blue eyed Chinese amidst his black haired and brown eyed peers and hence he should be accepted by all as a full member of the Chinese community, shouldnt he? Yet I have to see a Chinese person with blonde hair or pitch-black skin colour.
My assumption therefore is, that the emphatic cultural, not ethnic definition of Chineseness isnt so inclusive after all, but actually is only true of those who are already Chinese. Whereas vis-a-vis foreigners from abroad, being Chinese is viewed a very exclusive term, irespective of his degree of integration or assimilation...
Please answer my above questions faithfully, whatever your opinion on my interpretation below. :-)
Full Version: Blonde, blue eyed Han Chinese
China History Forum, Chinese History Forum > Chinese History Topics > Chinese Ethnic Groups and Peoples > Chinese Anthropology
QUOTE
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
There are already such Chinese around from where I come from, they are called Russian Chinese. And we have plenty of them in Sheng Yang, they are not just half White, but pure white.
QUOTE(Tibet Libre @ Jan 26 2006, 09:15 AM) [snapback]4786426[/snapback]
Imagine two scenarios:
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
Will the child be recognized by other Chinese as full Chinese or not?
2. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, settles down, begins to feel at home and lives for long years there. One day he wakes up and feels Chinese, so he decides to apply for the citizenship of the PRC resp. the ROC.
Will it be granted by the Chinese authorities? And, more importantly, will be recognized as full Chinese, if I may say so, by the Chinese, his neighbours, his work colleagues, his friends?
I am asking these questions against the background of the frequent assertion that "to be Chinese" is much, much more a cultural than an ethnic thing. If so, then there shouldnt be much of a problem with a blonde and blue eyed Chinese amidst his black haired and brown eyed peers and hence he should be accepted by all as a full member of the Chinese community, shouldnt he? Yet I have to see a Chinese person with blonde hair or pitch-black skin colour.
My assumption therefore is, that the emphatic cultural, not ethnic definition of Chineseness isnt so inclusive after all, but actually is only true of those who are already Chinese. Whereas vis-a-vis foreigners from abroad, being Chinese is viewed a very exclusive term, irespective of his degree of integration or assimilation...
Please answer my above questions faithfully, whatever your opinion on my interpretation below. :-)
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
Will the child be recognized by other Chinese as full Chinese or not?
2. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, settles down, begins to feel at home and lives for long years there. One day he wakes up and feels Chinese, so he decides to apply for the citizenship of the PRC resp. the ROC.
Will it be granted by the Chinese authorities? And, more importantly, will be recognized as full Chinese, if I may say so, by the Chinese, his neighbours, his work colleagues, his friends?
I am asking these questions against the background of the frequent assertion that "to be Chinese" is much, much more a cultural than an ethnic thing. If so, then there shouldnt be much of a problem with a blonde and blue eyed Chinese amidst his black haired and brown eyed peers and hence he should be accepted by all as a full member of the Chinese community, shouldnt he? Yet I have to see a Chinese person with blonde hair or pitch-black skin colour.
My assumption therefore is, that the emphatic cultural, not ethnic definition of Chineseness isnt so inclusive after all, but actually is only true of those who are already Chinese. Whereas vis-a-vis foreigners from abroad, being Chinese is viewed a very exclusive term, irespective of his degree of integration or assimilation...
Please answer my above questions faithfully, whatever your opinion on my interpretation below. :-)
It's definitely possible to be considered a chinese if he has obtained the citizenship of PRC. In fact, I've seen a TV program which interviewed a rather famous a white-american who got his citizenship of PRC after having migrated to China since he was 16 years old. He speaks good chinese and has no difference from the rest of the chinese, except for his look. He is considered a chinese.
Just wondering, are there any black Chinese?
QUOTE(Tibet Libre @ Jan 26 2006, 09:15 AM) [snapback]4786426[/snapback]
Imagine two scenarios:
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
Will the child be recognized by other Chinese as full Chinese or not?
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
Will the child be recognized by other Chinese as full Chinese or not?
If by Chinese you mean 中国人， of course, why not? If you mean Han, I am not sure how the authorities will classify his ethnicity. I don't think 'Han' as an identity is as big an issue as is sometimes made out by folks here, it is not difficult to observe in China the social divisions are frequently from where are you from, Shanghainese, Beijinger, right down to even the town or even village level. Your hypothetical child may get some name-callng growing up, 混血儿 etc. But I dont see it as a major issue. I can only say there is a good chance he will be considered good-looking by the time he is a teenager and he is going to do very well among the gals.
In fact as he gets older his exotic parentage is going to be an asset.QUOTE(Tibet Libre @ Jan 26 2006, 09:15 AM) [snapback]4786426[/snapback]
2. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, settles down, begins to feel at home and lives for long years there. One day he wakes up and feels Chinese, so he decides to apply for the citizenship of the PRC resp. the ROC.
Will it be granted by the Chinese authorities? And, more importantly, will be recognized as full Chinese, if I may say so, by the Chinese, his neighbours, his work colleagues, his friends?
I am asking these questions against the background of the frequent assertion that "to be Chinese" is much, much more a cultural than an ethnic thing. If so, then there shouldnt be much of a problem with a blonde and blue eyed Chinese amidst his black haired and brown eyed peers and hence he should be accepted by all as a full member of the Chinese community, shouldnt he? Yet I have to see a Chinese person with blonde hair or pitch-black skin colour.
Will it be granted by the Chinese authorities? And, more importantly, will be recognized as full Chinese, if I may say so, by the Chinese, his neighbours, his work colleagues, his friends?
I am asking these questions against the background of the frequent assertion that "to be Chinese" is much, much more a cultural than an ethnic thing. If so, then there shouldnt be much of a problem with a blonde and blue eyed Chinese amidst his black haired and brown eyed peers and hence he should be accepted by all as a full member of the Chinese community, shouldnt he? Yet I have to see a Chinese person with blonde hair or pitch-black skin colour.
It has already been done. I know of at least one caucasian woman who is a PRC citizen and has been living there since before the cultural revolution. She emigrated there. My question here is, are you implying the othe ethnicities in China are not recognised as full Chinese by their "full Chinese peers"?
QUOTE(Tibet Libre @ Jan 26 2006, 09:15 AM) [snapback]4786426[/snapback]
My assumption therefore is, that the emphatic cultural, not ethnic definition of Chineseness isnt so inclusive after all, but actually is only true of those who are already Chinese. Whereas vis-a-vis foreigners from abroad, being Chinese is viewed a very exclusive term, irespective of his degree of integration or assimilation...
Please answer my above questions faithfully, whatever your opinion on my interpretation below. :-)
Please answer my above questions faithfully, whatever your opinion on my interpretation below. :-)
Let's make things a little easier, Let's use Han/Hua when you mean ethnicity and Chinese when you mean 中国人 zhongguoren. I find that this will be helpful for subsequent discussions.
By your statement above I can only assume you are referring to Han/Hua. There are 2 levels: Being classified as Han/Hua at a government level and social acceptance among peers as a Han/Hua. Now in the former case I think that will be entirely dependant on the authorities and they may well have their own criteria which has little to do with how 'Chinese' is the person. In the latter case, I would say yes, regardless of skin colour, if the person thinks like a Chinese, does as a Chinese does, talks like a Chinese, sees himself as Chinese he will be accepted as Chinese except by bigots. And unfortunately bigots can be found in any country regardless of ethnicity. But again I think as far as China is concerned, nationality is becoming more important than ethnicity. It is more important are you a fellow countrymen than are you Han/Hua (but not zhongguoren)
QUOTE(Tibet Libre @ Jan 26 2006, 01:15 AM) [snapback]4786426[/snapback]
Imagine two scenarios:
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
Why can't it be a European mother and a Chinese father? This scenario is just as possible, especially when it comes to the Russians. Many of the Russian Chinese in north-eastern China have Russian mothers and Chinese fathers.
Alot of Uighurs look white.
If you are part chinese, part european then most common chinese look at you as a european rather than chinese regardless of your nationality.
A good example is michael wong , an actor in hong kong.
A good example is michael wong , an actor in hong kong.
I agree with what's said
but of course, looking different will make you stand out. When I travel south, I can definitely feel that most people there haven't seen many Asians before.
but of course, looking different will make you stand out. When I travel south, I can definitely feel that most people there haven't seen many Asians before.
[quote name='Tibet Libre' date='Jan 25 2006, 08:15 PM' post='4786426']
Imagine two scenarios:
_______________________________________________________________________________
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Why is it always a Chinese woman and a foreign man. Nobodypaints a scenario in which it's a Chinese man and a foreign woman. What are Chinese men, chopped liver ? It's time we did away with these stereotypes--- Asian woman/Foreign men. I get pretty tired of it.
Boarhuntr
Imagine two scenarios:
_______________________________________________________________________________
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Why is it always a Chinese woman and a foreign man. Nobodypaints a scenario in which it's a Chinese man and a foreign woman. What are Chinese men, chopped liver ? It's time we did away with these stereotypes--- Asian woman/Foreign men. I get pretty tired of it.
Boarhuntr
Relax! Don't be sexist. 
Israelis will tell you they prefer foreign men than women.
Israelis will tell you they prefer foreign men than women.
QUOTE(urofpersia @ 26 Jan 2006, 09:59 AM)
If by Chinese you mean 中国人， of course, why not? If you mean Han, I am not sure how the authorities will classify his ethnicity.
Well, the topic title is "Blonde, blue eyed Han Chinese"QUOTE
Let's make things a little easier, Let's use Han/Hua when you mean ethnicity and Chinese when you mean 中国人 zhongguoren. I find that this will be helpful for subsequent discussions.
I usually use like "mainland Chinese" (or invalid term "P.R.Chinese" 
) otherwise that would make "overseas Chinese" non-Chinese. (it's not like jellyfish not fish)QUOTE(somechineseperson @ 26 Jan 2006, 11:28 AM)
Why can't it be a European mother and a Chinese father? This scenario is just as possible, especially when it comes to the Russians. Many of the Russian Chinese in north-eastern China have Russian mothers and Chinese fathers.
QUOTE(Boarhuntr @ 26 Jan 2006, 01:12 PM)
Why is it always a Chinese woman and a foreign man. Nobodypaints a scenario in which it's a Chinese man and a foreign woman. What are Chinese men, chopped liver ? It's time we did away with these stereotypes--- Asian woman/Foreign men. I get pretty tired of it.
Yeah, seems that someones think white women never like Chinese men or vice versa?
QUOTE
Why is it always a Chinese woman and a foreign man. Nobodypaints a scenario in which it's a Chinese man and a foreign woman. What are Chinese men, chopped liver ? It's time we did away with these stereotypes--- Asian woman/Foreign men. I get pretty tired of it.
Boarhuntr
Boarhuntr
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...topic=7968&st=0
This is my analysis of things ... I'll keep it as simple as I can ... Even the simple version is long
Lesson #1 - Girls don't like boys. Girls like cars and money. <--- Good Charlotte (I think)
Girls will always go for whoever they think will give me the most financial security. I don't think I need to explain too much. 3 phenomenons are working here for western born/highly naturalised chinese men ...
a. Poor family background
Most comes from a background where they are poorer then the whites, this is due to the fact that most are migrants. This means that people have the impression that they are poor.
b. Immigrants/Refugee Syndrom
A lot of migrants, foreign students and refugees are poorer. Hence the impression that asians (chinese) are poor.
c. Historical
Historically, chinese were pretty well oppressed. As most people know at least minimal amount of history will know that oppressed = poor. Hence impression of poor.
IMPRESSION is the keyword.
Lesson #2 - Under pressure. <--- Queen
a. Keeper of the culture
Chinese men are considered keeper of the culture. The family pressures the boys to marry thier own kind (or as close as possible). I have personal experience of this one (Mine and people I know).
b. Friends
Amoung peers (especially with non-naturalised chinese ... recent migrants) there is pressure to marry thier own kind. I have personal experience of this one (Mine and people I know).
Lesson #3 - It's raining men, Halleluja! <---- Forgot thier name sorry
Due to the large movement of chinese/asian men ... moving in and out of western sphere (like studying and family business in "home country"). There is a lack of chinese men in the western world who are between the age of 24-32 (marrying age). Girls are not pressured to leave so they tend to stay causing a larger female:male ratio for that age group.
Example a ...
I know that a lot of migrant families from HK and Taiwan utilising Australian and NZ migration scheme as nothing more then free education for thier kids. They get thier PR, move here put thier kids through school then when they finish university they make them go back to thier "home country" to work or run the family business. In general, the ones that are not pressure to go home are Pu-nks ... they are here couse going back home will cause the family to lose face.
So a lot of the lads between 24-32 are GONE-SKY and the only ones left behind are JE-Rks.
Example b ...
Students. When the finish studying they go home. Meaning that 2 things happens. 1 ... they act like je-rks (or do not "chase the skirts") so that they don't "fall" for a girl 2... Heart break to the girlie left behind
In these cases they are viewed as Je-rks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't read the following if you are easily offended as they are the thoughts of a disgruntal chinese person.
You are warned!
Final MOST CONTRAVERCIAL lesson (This is but my own and PURELY my own extremely disgruntal chinese self)
Lesson #4 ... Asian girls are Manipulative <Add your own expletives here>
Having grown up with asian girls and knowing how they operate and manipulate. Chinese men tend to be less trusting and more cautious of women in general. Unfortunately, this rolls over to non-asian girls as well and that gives the impression that chinese men are Hard-Ar-ses. That is my experience with em.
BTW.: i know many european(i dont say "white" or "black"!) people they are married with people from china..
where is a problem?
Well, I have been living in Beijing for a while and sometimes I encounter Chinese men and woman with fairly brown hair and with an eye colour that is almost greenish, while their facial complexion is very Chinese.
Moreover, when I was travelling in Shanxi nearby Datong, and our tourbus stopped at a gas station, one middle-aged vendor approached the bus with wares. When I looked at him he was blue-eyed
.
I exclude the possibility that he was wearing contacts, since a pair of glasses is cheaper.
I think that because Northern China was very accessible and with nomadic peoples in the north through centuries, blue/lighter coloured eyes Han Chinese is possible, although in a small number.
Moreover, when I was travelling in Shanxi nearby Datong, and our tourbus stopped at a gas station, one middle-aged vendor approached the bus with wares. When I looked at him he was blue-eyed
.I exclude the possibility that he was wearing contacts, since a pair of glasses is cheaper.
I think that because Northern China was very accessible and with nomadic peoples in the north through centuries, blue/lighter coloured eyes Han Chinese is possible, although in a small number.
QUOTE(Friend From Far @ Jan 26 2006, 01:12 PM) [snapback]4786522[/snapback]
Well, I have been living in Beijing for a while and sometimes I encounter Chinese men and woman with fairly brown hair and with an eye colour that is almost greenish, while their facial complexion is very Chinese.
Moreover, when I was travelling in Shanxi nearby Datong, and our tourbus stopped at a gas station, one middle-aged vendor approached the bus with wares. When I looked at him he was blue-eyed .
I exclude the possibility that he was wearing contacts, since a pair of glasses is cheaper.
I think that because Northern China was very accessible and with nomadic peoples in the north through centuries, blue/lighter coloured eyes Han Chinese is possible, although in a small number.
Moreover, when I was travelling in Shanxi nearby Datong, and our tourbus stopped at a gas station, one middle-aged vendor approached the bus with wares. When I looked at him he was blue-eyed
.I exclude the possibility that he was wearing contacts, since a pair of glasses is cheaper.
I think that because Northern China was very accessible and with nomadic peoples in the north through centuries, blue/lighter coloured eyes Han Chinese is possible, although in a small number.
<-- 
seriously: i dont see that it muss be ok, if a peoples-nation and their ethnic be different by their look..
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 26 2006, 12:00 PM) [snapback]4786521[/snapback]
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...topic=7968&st=0
[i]This is my analysis of things ... I'll keep it as simple as I can ... Even the simple version is long
Lesson #1 - Girls don't like boys. Girls like cars and money. <--- Good Charlotte (I think)
Girls will always go for whoever they think will give me the most financial security. I don't think I need to explain too much. 3 phenomenons are working here for western born/highly naturalised chinese men ...
a. Poor family background
Most comes from a background where they are poorer then the whites, this is due to the fact that most are migrants. This means that people have the impression that they are poor.
b. Immigrants/Refugee Syndrom
A lot of migrants, foreign students and refugees are poorer. Hence the impression that asians (chinese) are poor.
c. Historical
Historically, chinese were pretty well oppressed. As most people know at least minimal amount of history will know that oppressed = poor. Hence impression of poor.
IMPRESSION is the keyword.
[i]This is my analysis of things ... I'll keep it as simple as I can ... Even the simple version is long
Lesson #1 - Girls don't like boys. Girls like cars and money. <--- Good Charlotte (I think)
Girls will always go for whoever they think will give me the most financial security. I don't think I need to explain too much. 3 phenomenons are working here for western born/highly naturalised chinese men ...
a. Poor family background
Most comes from a background where they are poorer then the whites, this is due to the fact that most are migrants. This means that people have the impression that they are poor.
b. Immigrants/Refugee Syndrom
A lot of migrants, foreign students and refugees are poorer. Hence the impression that asians (chinese) are poor.
c. Historical
Historically, chinese were pretty well oppressed. As most people know at least minimal amount of history will know that oppressed = poor. Hence impression of poor.
IMPRESSION is the keyword.
Economical reasons are clearly not the only factors. Japan for example is wealthier than most Western countries, but there are still very few Japanese men with Western women. (Or at least that is the stereotype)
QUOTE
c. Historical
Historically, chinese were pretty well oppressed. As most people know at least minimal amount of history will know that oppressed = poor. Hence impression of poor.
Historically, chinese were pretty well oppressed. As most people know at least minimal amount of history will know that oppressed = poor. Hence impression of poor.
Sorry, but I consider this statement to be offensive, bordering on racism. Historically Chinese people are no more oppressed than other peoples around the world.
QUOTE(Friend From Far @ Jan 26 2006, 08:12 PM) [snapback]4786522[/snapback]
I think that because Northern China was very accessible and with nomadic peoples in the north through centuries, blue/lighter coloured eyes Han Chinese is possible, although in a small number.
Some tribes in the North are "Caucasoid-mixed". Those ones you look might be Kazakh or Kirghiz...Or might be the descendants of "semu" people...
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 26 2006, 08:28 PM) [snapback]4786524[/snapback]
I can bet that they're Kazakhs. Even I found one seemingly-European-mixed person in there.QUOTE
Dying their hairs?? Putting coloured contact-lens? LOL they become "Europeans".QUOTE(somechineseperson @ Jan 26 2006, 08:45 PM) [snapback]4786529[/snapback]
QUOTE
c. Historical
Historically, chinese were pretty well oppressed. As most people know at least minimal amount of history will know that oppressed = poor. Hence impression of poor.
Historically, chinese were pretty well oppressed. As most people know at least minimal amount of history will know that oppressed = poor. Hence impression of poor.
Sorry, but I consider this statement to be offensive, bordering on racism. Historically Chinese people are no more oppressed than other peoples around the world.
Hey, why are some of us so irritated about only Western men+Chinese women are mentioned but not vice versa? Are you guys advocating equal rights for different sexes, or simply think women are a "prize" to "win"? Come on this is the 21st century not 12th......
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 01:51 PM) [snapback]4786531[/snapback]
Some tribes in the North are "Caucasoid-mixed". Those ones you look might be Kazakh or Kirghiz...
Or might be the descendants of "semu" people...
I can bet that they're Kazakhs. Even I found one seemingly-European-mixed person in there.
Dying their hairs?? Putting coloured contact-lens? LOL they become "Europeans".
Sorry, but I consider this statement to be offensive, bordering on racism. Historically Chinese people are no more oppressed than other peoples around the world. I think he meant in America. Historically in America white are not oppressed, isn't it?
Or might be the descendants of "semu" people...
I can bet that they're Kazakhs. Even I found one seemingly-European-mixed person in there.
Dying their hairs?? Putting coloured contact-lens? LOL they become "Europeans".
Sorry, but I consider this statement to be offensive, bordering on racism. Historically Chinese people are no more oppressed than other peoples around the world. I think he meant in America. Historically in America white are not oppressed, isn't it?
QUOTE
Some tribes in the North are "Caucasoid-mixed". Those ones you look might be Kazakh or Kirghiz...
Or might be the descendants of "semu" people...
Vouila!: and here we got a "pure or not pure" discussion..Or might be the descendants of "semu" people...
QUOTE
I can bet that they're Kazakhs. Even I found one seemingly-European-mixed person in there.
Really?
perhaps their genes have mutate into new "race"?
who say you, that this blonde guy can get blonde hair and blu eyes, only if his parents are mixed with "caucasoid"?
btw: they are from north China and are Chinese Citicens therefore they are Chinese.
Or will you say, they are not really chinese?
QUOTE
Dying their hairs?? Putting coloured contact-lens? LOL they become "Europeans".
Or, they make a face transplatation, or genes therapy, or something other..
If they will do it, where is a problem? Or do you think really, that this people identty them only by their look?
They became european if they, do feel them european and if they do identity themselves as europeans..
Therefore be careful if you use a steriotypes from a time of rassism..
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 26 2006, 10:27 PM) [snapback]4786556[/snapback]
Vouila!: and here we got a "pure or not pure" discussion..
Really?
LOL you said in other thread "very pure Mongoloids" with the same picture Really?
"Caucasoid mixed" because "Caucasoid" is not the dominant feature. Lesser features are called the "mixture", not the dominant ones.
QUOTE
perhaps their genes have mutate into new race?
who say you that this blonde guy can get blonde hair and blu eyes, only if his parents are mixed with "caucasoid"?
Hold on!! Gene can hardly change. Usually "Negroid" or "Mongoloid" do not have blond hair. I believe light hair and are found in Nanai people, but its more possibly "Caucasoids".who say you that this blonde guy can get blonde hair and blu eyes, only if his parents are mixed with "caucasoid"?
QUOTE
btw: they are from north China and are Chinese Citicens=they are Chinese.
Or will you say they are not really chinese?
Again, people confuse "Han" with "Zhongguoren" hehehe Or will you say they are not really chinese?
. Being a "zhongguoren" does not care you about your race genetic or somethings like that.QUOTE
Or, they make a face trasnplatation, or genetherapy, or something other..
(If they will do it, where is a problem? Or do you think really that this people identty them only by their look?)
They became european if they, do them feel european, and if they do identity them with europe..
Therefore be careful if you use a steriotypes from a time of rassism..
LOL I was just kidding, folk. I clearly meant "pseudo-European".
(If they will do it, where is a problem? Or do you think really that this people identty them only by their look?)
They became european if they, do them feel european, and if they do identity them with europe..
Therefore be careful if you use a steriotypes from a time of rassism..
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 03:42 PM) [snapback]4786566[/snapback]
LOL you said in other thread "very pure Mongoloids" with the same picture
"Caucasoid mixed" because "Caucasoid" is not the dominant feature. Lesser features are called the "mixture", not the dominant ones.
Hold on!! Gene can hardly change. Usually "Negroid" or "Mongoloid" do not have blond hair. I believe light hair and are found in Nanai people, but its more possibly "Caucasoids".
Again, people confuse "Han" with "Zhongguoren" hehehe. Being a "zhongguoren" does not care you about your race genetic or somethings like that.
LOL I was just kidding, folk. I clearly meant "pseudo-European".
"Caucasoid mixed" because "Caucasoid" is not the dominant feature. Lesser features are called the "mixture", not the dominant ones.
Hold on!! Gene can hardly change. Usually "Negroid" or "Mongoloid" do not have blond hair. I believe light hair and are found in Nanai people, but its more possibly "Caucasoids".
Again, people confuse "Han" with "Zhongguoren" hehehe
. Being a "zhongguoren" does not care you about your race genetic or somethings like that.LOL I was just kidding, folk. I clearly meant "pseudo-European".
QUOTE
Hold on!! Gene can hardly change. Usually "Negroid" or "Mongoloid" do not have blond hair. I believe light hair and are found in Nanai people, but its more possibly "Caucasoids".
realy? do you know about albinos? (learn more about mutation)
<- negroide "white"..http://www.afrikaansealbinos.nl/Ned/Projec...ct_senegal.html
QUOTE
LOL you said in other thread "very pure Mongoloids" with the same picture
"Caucasoid mixed" because "Caucasoid" is not the dominant feature. Lesser features are called the "mixture", not the dominant ones.
"Caucasoid mixed" because "Caucasoid" is not the dominant feature. Lesser features are called the "mixture", not the dominant ones.
at first i have write:
QUOTE
"tru pure mongoloid"
"" =skeptic, ironic mean..second: who are you to tell others; who have to be dominant and who not?
dont forgot what did hitler make with him "dominate of arians about others.."
QUOTE
Again, people confuse "Han" with "Zhongguoren" hehehe . Being a "zhongguoren" does not care you about your race genetic or somethings like that.
. Being a "zhongguoren" does not care you about your race genetic or somethings like that.please?
And who talk here about dominant "mongolid" and "caucasoide"?
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 10:42 PM) [snapback]4786566[/snapback]
Again, people confuse "Han" with "Zhongguoren" hehehe . Being a "zhongguoren" does not care you about your race genetic or somethings like that.
. Being a "zhongguoren" does not care you about your race genetic or somethings like that.In fact, on many occasions, the facial look of minorities are less various than that of "Han".
If a white couple came to china and became a citizen of PRC,their next generation, according to the law, as their will, and mostly be adpative to the custom, he or she would register as Han ethnic.
"Zhongguoren" 's meaning is still changing fast, or it has never changed. The definition should be clear is that "zhonguo" is just a han(what han is , everyone hold different view, but in common, in chinese society, who could keep 和谐相处) nation, or a cultural concept as Kongzi once mean.
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 26 2006, 11:03 PM) [snapback]4786573[/snapback]
<- negroide albinos..
Woh, yeah. I just forgot. QUOTE
second: who are you to tell others; who have to be dominant and who not?
Well, ambiguity again. I meant the "dominant feature", you know. Not "who dominates".
QUOTE
And who talk here about dominant "mongolid" and "caucasoide"?
don't forget what you said:
btw: they are from north China and are Chinese Citicens therefore they are Chinese.
Chinese Citizens, so you meant "zhongguoren", but you also said:
Or will you say, they are not really chinese?
then you seemingly confused with "Han/Hua".
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 04:11 PM) [snapback]4786576[/snapback]
Woh, yeah. I just forgot.
Well, ambiguity again.
I meant the "dominant feature", you know. Not "who dominates".
don't forget what you said:
btw: they are from north China and are Chinese Citicens therefore they are Chinese.
Chinese Citizens, so you meant "zhongguoren", but you also said:
Or will you say, they are not really chinese?
then you seemingly confused with "Han/Hua".
Well, ambiguity again.
I meant the "dominant feature", you know. Not "who dominates".
don't forget what you said:
btw: they are from north China and are Chinese Citicens therefore they are Chinese.
Chinese Citizens, so you meant "zhongguoren", but you also said:
Or will you say, they are not really chinese?
then you seemingly confused with "Han/Hua".
QUOTE
I meant the "dominant feature", you know. Not "who dominates".
and wo are you to tell others what of their boddys are "dominant feature" and wich not?
wake up.. a time of "race" with "dominant features" was and do not exist..
QUOTE
btw: they are from north China and are Chinese Citicens therefore they are Chinese.
Chinese Citizens, so you meant "zhongguoren", but you also said:
Or will you say, they are not really chinese?
then you seemingly confused with "Han/Hua".
Chinese Citizens, so you meant "zhongguoren", but you also said:
Or will you say, they are not really chinese?
then you seemingly confused with "Han/Hua".
Do you have exsactly explanation what a "Chinese" are?
Perhaps from goverment of China? or UN?
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 26 2006, 11:26 PM) [snapback]4786578[/snapback]
and wo are you to tell others what of their boddys are "dominant feature" and wich not?
I may not be a authoritative person to tell which is "dominant feature" and which one is not, and that I might not tell others to believe in me. However, I can state my opinions QUOTE
wake up.. a time of "race" with "dominant features" was and do not exist..
Misunderstanding again? I meant "features which are more dominant in these people" not "which race is more dominant".QUOTE
Do you have exsactly explanation what a "Chinese" are?
"Chinese" in one sense is anyone who lives in China. -> "Zhongguoren"
"Chinese" in other sense is anyone who traces their root to the "ancient Chinese" or "China". -> "Huaren"
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 04:38 PM) [snapback]4786580[/snapback]
I may not be a authoritative person to tell which is "dominant feature" and which one is not, and that I might not tell others to believe in me. However, I can state my opinions
Misunderstanding again? I meant "features which are more dominant in these people" not "which race is more dominant".
"Chinese" in one sense is anyone who lives in China. -> "Zhongguoren"
"Chinese" in other sense is anyone who traces their root to the "ancient Chinese" or "China". -> "Huaren"
Misunderstanding again? I meant "features which are more dominant in these people" not "which race is more dominant".
"Chinese" in one sense is anyone who lives in China. -> "Zhongguoren"
"Chinese" in other sense is anyone who traces their root to the "ancient Chinese" or "China". -> "Huaren"
QUOTE
Misunderstanding again? I meant "features which are more dominant in these people" not "which race is more dominant".
No.. i have understand you good enough!You have not right to tell others about their "dominant something"..
And i have make my Point realy simple.. Or do you not want realy understand what i mean?
QUOTE
"Chinese" in one sense is anyone who lives in China. -> "Zhongguoren"
"Chinese" in other sense is anyone who traces their root to the "ancient Chinese" or "China". -> "Huaren"
"Chinese" in other sense is anyone who traces their root to the "ancient Chinese" or "China". -> "Huaren"
Link? Prove?
I dont thing that you are goverment of China or UN..
Nina Brosh (half Russian Jewish and half Chinese). She is also capable of speaking Chinese, btw.
QUOTE
Nina Brosh (born November 12, 1975) is an Israeli model and actress. Nina was born in Ramat Yishai, Israel to a Jewish Russian father & Chinese mother. She was discovered while sleeping on a park bench in Tel-Aviv. At the time, she was a homeless & penniless runaway. A photographer noticed her and offered her assistance in exchange for the opportunity to take pictures of her. Weeks later, Nina's image was plastered all over the city.
Nina and her representation began looking for broader success, first going to New York, and then finally finding real success in Paris. She began to appear on runways, magazine editorials, and advertisements, working with brands such as Evian, Byblos, and Givenchy.
Some people think her tattoos have hindered her career. They are often either airbrushed out of photos or covered with makeup for runway shows. Nina has recently declared semi-retirement from modelling. She has moved back to Israel and settled into a villa in the wealthy city of Kfar Smaryahu. There, with her boyfriend Assi Salev, she has begun a family. She has also been putting energy into re-educating herself, focusing on a possible medical career.
In 1995 Nina was voted the 79th "Most Powerful Person in Fashion" by The Face magazine. In 1998 she appeared opposite Vincent Gallo in the independent movie Hollywood Salome, though rumours of links to high profile projects such as The Fifth Element and Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace have all fallen through. She is currently in semi-retirement.
Nina and her representation began looking for broader success, first going to New York, and then finally finding real success in Paris. She began to appear on runways, magazine editorials, and advertisements, working with brands such as Evian, Byblos, and Givenchy.
Some people think her tattoos have hindered her career. They are often either airbrushed out of photos or covered with makeup for runway shows. Nina has recently declared semi-retirement from modelling. She has moved back to Israel and settled into a villa in the wealthy city of Kfar Smaryahu. There, with her boyfriend Assi Salev, she has begun a family. She has also been putting energy into re-educating herself, focusing on a possible medical career.
In 1995 Nina was voted the 79th "Most Powerful Person in Fashion" by The Face magazine. In 1998 she appeared opposite Vincent Gallo in the independent movie Hollywood Salome, though rumours of links to high profile projects such as The Fifth Element and Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace have all fallen through. She is currently in semi-retirement.
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 27 2006, 02:04 AM) [snapback]4786619[/snapback]
No.. i have understand you good enough!
You have not right to tell others about their "dominant something"..
You have not right to tell others about their "dominant something"..
yeah, up to you what you say. You haven't read or you just don't want to read:QUOTE
I may not be a authoritative person to tell which is "dominant feature" and which one is not, and that I might not tell others to believe in me. However, I can state my opinions
it was just my opinion. I'm not forcing you to believe. You also don't have the right to force me not to state any of my opinion even if you don't see the logic. I'm not making a racistic discrimination.QUOTE
Link? Prove?
It's a definition, seemingly made by some overseas Chinese, go ask other people here if you want proof. I don't have the right to tell you about your language (and vice versa). for the second sense of "Chinese" (which I translate "Huaren" to my language), you can also go to see Malaysian/Indonesian government to get proof.
QUOTE(vanguard @ Jan 27 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]4786637[/snapback]
Nina Brosh (half Russian Jewish and half Chinese). She is also capable of speaking Chinese, btw.
A Han Chinese or just Chinese?
^saw her on mixedfolks.com. and she has chinese eyes, although the photographs diminish that somewhat (lighting? angle? makeup?)
QUOTE(vanguard @ Jan 27 2006, 05:01 AM) [snapback]4786639[/snapback]
^saw her on mixedfolks.com. and she has chinese eyes, although the photographs diminish that somewhat (lighting? angle? makeup?)
Certainly I don't have the right to tell right or wrong, since I've never seen the real person. But the existence of "Blonde, blue eyed Chinese" is not what we're interested in, read warhead's post in the first page. This topic is "Blonde, blue eyed Han Chinese". Actually we can just dye our hair and put coloured contact lenses on (but the natural ones? Han Chinese born with blond hair and blue eyes?)
If the Chinese minorities can, why cant Chinese? Its rare but it happens, mainly Chinese living in the outerlying regions of China of course. Xinjiang people:
Mongolian
Kyrgyz
Kazakh Boy
Xinjiang girl...I dont know what she is...Mongol, Kazakh, Kyrgyz? Even Han maybe?
Mongolian
Kyrgyz
Kazakh Boy
Xinjiang girl...I dont know what she is...Mongol, Kazakh, Kyrgyz? Even Han maybe?
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 10:06 PM) [snapback]4786640[/snapback]
Certainly I don't have the right to tell right or wrong, since I've never seen the real person. But the existence of "Blonde, blue eyed Chinese" is not what we're interested in, read warhead's post in the first page. This topic is "Blonde, blue eyed Han Chinese". Actually we can just dye our hair and put coloured contact lenses on (but the natural ones? Han Chinese born with blond hair and blue eyes?)
(but the natural ones? Han Chinese born with blond hair and blue eyes?)i think your question is: Is it permits a Han-Chinese to be blonde and have a blue eyes?
You bound a Han-ethnic all time by genes and blood..(only biological)
But my friend.. We know that Han dont have a same genes and do not identity themselves only by blood or look..
We know that many han are biological not Han, but they identity themselves as Han..
and i dont have a Problem with it, if someone who get (mutation/genesmixing/mode=normal develop in they human-history) a other hair or eyes color and identity him self as Han, then we must respect his identity and see him as HAN..
While ethnicity and race are related concepts, the concept of ethnicity is rooted in the idea of social groups, marked especially by shared nationality, tribal affiliation, religious faith, shared language, or cultural and traditional origins and backgrounds, whereas race is rooted in the idea of biological classification of Homo sapiens to subspecies according to arbitrarily chosen genotypic and/or phenotypic traits.
In a Modern Time is a ethnicy a culture or subculture whose members are readily distinguishable by outsiders based on traits originating from a common racial, national, linguistic, regional or religious source. Members of an ethnic group are often presumed to be culturally or sometimes genetically similar, although this is not in fact necessarily the case.
QUOTE(GreYandBlue @ Jan 27 2006, 05:41 AM) [snapback]4786647[/snapback]
If the Chinese minorities can, why cant Chinese? Its rare but it happens, mainly Chinese living in the outerlying regions of China of course. Xinjiang people:
See urofpersia's doubt 
I think you should see a question of type "if Native American can, why 'White American' can't?"
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 27 2006, 05:42 AM) [snapback]4786648[/snapback]
i think your question is: Is it permits a Han-Chinese to be blonde and have a blue eyes?
don't see things negatively, folk. I'm just wondering whether such people exist or not. I'm actually also "taking" others (general) point of view. Don't you feel/know why urofpersia also was not sure whether persons within this category exist?
[ooh, sorry to bother you, Ur
]QUOTE
You bound a Han-ethnic all time by genes and blood..(only biological)
But my friend.. We know that Han dont have a same genes and do identity themselves only by blood or look..
Nobody have exact same gene. (well, except perhaps new-borne identical twins). And every human share much gene so everybody is genetically similar. (so what? But my friend.. We know that Han dont have a same genes and do identity themselves only by blood or look..
)QUOTE
We know that many han are biological not Han, but they identity themselves as Han..
and i dont have a Problem with it, and if someone, who get (mutation/genesmixing/mode=normal develop in they human-history) a other hair or eyes color and identity him self as Han, they we must respect his identity and see him as HAN..
Well, did you make racistic comments for some Han or I misinterpret your words? and i dont have a Problem with it, and if someone, who get (mutation/genesmixing/mode=normal develop in they human-history) a other hair or eyes color and identity him self as Han, they we must respect his identity and see him as HAN..
I'm not assigning Hans to a genetic marker, anyway. But people who are far from average/typical make other people wonder
If I say I wonder why X is so smart, does that mean I'm doubting about his people's IQ? Certainly not.
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 10:52 PM) [snapback]4786650[/snapback]
See urofpersia's doubt
don't see things negatively, folk. I'm just wondering whether such people exist or not.
I'm actually also "taking" others (general) point of view. Don't you feel/know why urofpersia also was not sure whether persons within this category exist? [ooh, sorry Ur]
Nobody have exact same gene. (well, except perhaps new-borne identical twins). And every human share much gene so everybody is genetically similar. (so what?)
Well, did you make racistic comments for some Han or I misinterpret your words?
I'm not assigning Hans to a genetic marker, anyway. But people who are far from average/typical make other people wonder
If I say I wonder why X is so smart, does that mean I'm doubting about his people's IQ? Certainly not.
don't see things negatively, folk. I'm just wondering whether such people exist or not. I'm actually also "taking" others (general) point of view. Don't you feel/know why urofpersia also was not sure whether persons within this category exist? [ooh, sorry Ur
]Nobody have exact same gene. (well, except perhaps new-borne identical twins). And every human share much gene so everybody is genetically similar. (so what?
)Well, did you make racistic comments for some Han or I misinterpret your words?
I'm not assigning Hans to a genetic marker, anyway. But people who are far from average/typical make other people wonder
If I say I wonder why X is so smart, does that mean I'm doubting about his people's IQ? Certainly not.
average/typical make <-- "pure not pure" discussion..
"genetic marker"? ablolutly YES.. And you use a "look marker"..(like Nazis with their Arian Policy)
And what have IQ to do with a ethnicy identity?
(im just wonder why do you came on this topic)QUOTE
We know that many han are biological not Han, but they identity themselves as Han..
and i dont have a Problem with it, and if someone, who get (mutation/genesmixing/mode=normal develop in they human-history) a other hair or eyes color and identity him self as Han, they we must respect his identity and see him as HAN..
and i dont have a Problem with it, and if someone, who get (mutation/genesmixing/mode=normal develop in they human-history) a other hair or eyes color and identity him self as Han, they we must respect his identity and see him as HAN..
QUOTE
Well, did you make racistic comments for some Han or I misinterpret your words?
Sorry dude, but can you tell me, where i have make a rasistc comments?
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 27 2006, 06:08 AM) [snapback]4786651[/snapback]
average/typical make <-- "pure not pure" discussion..
Now, if X looks different from others, won't he be somehow "attractive" for others discussion?QUOTE
"genetic marker"? ablolutly YES.. And you use a "look marker"..(like Nazis with their Arian Policy)
What? I just use/point out general point of view. Do I have to quote urofpersia for you? Here:QUOTE(urofpersia @ Jan 26 2006, 09:59 AM) [snapback]4786437[/snapback]
If by Chinese you mean 中国人， of course, why not? If you mean Han, I am not sure how the authorities will classify his ethnicity. I don't think 'Han' as an identity is as big an issue as is sometimes made out by folks here, it is not difficult to observe in China the social divisions are frequently from where are you from, Shanghainese, Beijinger, right down to even the town or even village level. Your hypothetical child may get some name-callng growing up, 混血儿 etc. But I dont see it as a major issue. I can only say there is a good chance he will be considered good-looking by the time he is a teenager and he is going to do very well among the gals. In fact as he gets older his exotic parentage is going to be an asset.
In fact as he gets older his exotic parentage is going to be an asset.QUOTE
And what have IQ to do with a ethnicy identity? (im just wonder why do you came on this topic)
You don't see the analogy?? Well. (im just wonder why do you came on this topic)Like if I say "how come Einstein is so smart?", then you responded "is it not allowed for Jews to be smart", is it relevant??
Looking at every tree and don't see the forest
QUOTE
Sorry dude, but can you tell me, where i have make a rasistc comments?
It was clearly joking, you know. What you said was some Chinese genetically so far. But If I am as sensitive as you, I would see that small thing as a racist comment. Now: stop being oversensitive. If you don't have the reasons bothering/suspecting Ur, then you don't have reasons to do that to me as well.
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 26 2006, 11:22 PM) [snapback]4786654[/snapback]
Now, if X looks different from others, won't he be somehow "attractive" for others discussion?
What? I just use/point out general point of view. Do I have to quote urofpersia for you? Here:
You don't see the analogy?? Well.
Like if I say "how come Einstein is so smart?", then you responded "is it not allowed for Jews to be smart", is it relevant??
Looking at every tree and don't see the forest
It was clearly joking, you know. What you said was some Chinese genetically so far. But If I am as sensitive as you, I would see that small thing as a racist comment.
Now: stop being oversensitive. If you don't have the reasons bothering/suspecting Ur, then you don't have reasons to do that to me as well.
What? I just use/point out general point of view. Do I have to quote urofpersia for you? Here:
You don't see the analogy?? Well.
Like if I say "how come Einstein is so smart?", then you responded "is it not allowed for Jews to be smart", is it relevant??
Looking at every tree and don't see the forest
It was clearly joking, you know. What you said was some Chinese genetically so far. But If I am as sensitive as you, I would see that small thing as a racist comment.
Now: stop being oversensitive. If you don't have the reasons bothering/suspecting Ur, then you don't have reasons to do that to me as well.
QUOTE
You don't see the analogy?? Well.
Like if I say "how come Einstein is so smart?", then you responded "is it not allowed for Jews to be smart", is it relevant??
Looking at every tree and don't see the forest
Like if I say "how come Einstein is so smart?", then you responded "is it not allowed for Jews to be smart", is it relevant??
Looking at every tree and don't see the forest
Aha.. do you mean that a einsteins smartnes are only from genes?
QUOTE
I just use/point out general point of view.
really? "general point"
I have see in China very very different views about a Han ethnic..
(hm or must we cal them "people from old Han Dynasty", or "pure Chinese", or "Citizen of Chinese State", or "People from Yellow River" Or "Not Cantonese" or "Confucian People from East" or "Hànyu-speaker". or.. or.. or..)
And Btw: i wait for your link, where we can find out What a Han-Ethnic by Goverment and UN is..
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 27 2006, 06:56 AM) [snapback]4786661[/snapback]
Aha.. do you mean that a einsteins smartnes are only from genes?
Oh my goodness. I was ANALOGUING that you that bash me WITHOUT MUCH REASONING but overgeneralization of my words. You throw words into my mouth.QUOTE
really? "general point"
I have see in China very very different views about a Han ethnic..
At least I'm with urofpersia. I have see in China very very different views about a Han ethnic..
I'm sure there are others also, at least not just "individual view".I think it's generally for overseas Chinese.
QUOTE
(hm or must we cal them "people from old Han Dynasty", or "pure Chinese", or "Citizen of Chinese State", or "People from Yellow River" Or "Not Cantonese" or "Confucian People from East" or "Hànyu-speaker". or.. or.. or..)
Nah, you start to be like what you're complaining of me. Calm down, you seem to have been in some unstable mood.QUOTE
And Btw: i wait for your link, where we can find out What a Han-Ethnic by Goverment and UN is..
Take time to wait. I'm not even sure whether UN will define "Han" or not. Americans just define "Chinese".
Wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Chinese
"2. person living in or coming from China"
You doubted about that didn't you?
QUOTE(qrasy @ Jan 27 2006, 12:15 AM) [snapback]4786666[/snapback]
Oh my goodness. I was ANALOGUING that you that bash me WITHOUT MUCH REASONING but overgeneralization of my words. You throw words into my mouth.
At least I'm with urofpersia. I'm sure there are others also, at least not just "individual view".
I think it's generally for overseas Chinese.
Nah, you start to be like what you're complaining of me. Calm down, you seem to have been in some unstable mood.
Take time to wait.
I'm not even sure whether UN will define "Han" or not. Americans just define "Chinese".
Wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Chinese
"2. person living in or coming from China"
You doubted about that didn't you?
At least I'm with urofpersia.
I'm sure there are others also, at least not just "individual view".I think it's generally for overseas Chinese.
Nah, you start to be like what you're complaining of me. Calm down, you seem to have been in some unstable mood.
Take time to wait.
I'm not even sure whether UN will define "Han" or not. Americans just define "Chinese".
Wiktionary: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Chinese
"2. person living in or coming from China"
You doubted about that didn't you?
QUOTE
I think it's generally for overseas Chinese..
..I'm not even sure whether UN will define "Han" or not. Americans just define "Chinese".
..I'm not even sure whether UN will define "Han" or not. Americans just define "Chinese".
let me quote a someone from this topic:
"This topic is "Blonde, blue eyed Han Chinese". ..
hmmm...seems to be alot of agendas at work here
what i see here is the exact opposite of ethnocentric racism and its just as insane
of course it COULD happen but on a large scale, its rare as hell.
all ethnic groups today are to a degree are heterogenous. Han ethnic group is no where near as heterogenous as modern day central asians like Uighurs.
Only two cases of exceptions that i notice
1. the "extreme cantonese"(sorry to use oceanview's terminology) like the martial arts actor Bolo Yeung
2. the ones that are obvious mixes-what i mean by obvious mix is that, if you ask them, they can easily identify their non-Chinese ancestor. Example "my grandfather is (insert ethnic/racial group)"
other than that, just about all "Han Chinese"...look Chinese regardless of region.
nomad admixture in the north wouldn't make a difference since just about all the groups that may or may not have assimilated were not physically different from Chinese. if anything, it would help reinforce cold climate mongoloid features already found on the people of the North China plain (brachycephalic/mesocephalic skull, high cheek bones, more pronounced eye fold, etc)
what i see here is the exact opposite of ethnocentric racism and its just as insane
of course it COULD happen but on a large scale, its rare as hell.
all ethnic groups today are to a degree are heterogenous. Han ethnic group is no where near as heterogenous as modern day central asians like Uighurs.
Only two cases of exceptions that i notice
1. the "extreme cantonese"(sorry to use oceanview's terminology) like the martial arts actor Bolo Yeung
2. the ones that are obvious mixes-what i mean by obvious mix is that, if you ask them, they can easily identify their non-Chinese ancestor. Example "my grandfather is (insert ethnic/racial group)"
other than that, just about all "Han Chinese"...look Chinese regardless of region.
nomad admixture in the north wouldn't make a difference since just about all the groups that may or may not have assimilated were not physically different from Chinese. if anything, it would help reinforce cold climate mongoloid features already found on the people of the North China plain (brachycephalic/mesocephalic skull, high cheek bones, more pronounced eye fold, etc)
QUOTE(Kediren @ Jan 27 2006, 07:38 AM) [snapback]4786669[/snapback]
"This topic is "Blonde, blue eyed Han Chinese". ..
Yes, certainly it's me. (so what?? I'm just referring to fact)"Blonde, blue eyed Chinese" is already answered by Warhead anyway.
QUOTE(浪淘音 @ Jan 27 2006, 07:38 AM) [snapback]4786670[/snapback]
hmmm...seems to be alot of agendas at work here
what i see here is the exact opposite of ethnocentric racism and its just as insane
What did you see? Any help is appreciated. what i see here is the exact opposite of ethnocentric racism and its just as insane
QUOTE
all ethnic groups today are to a degree are heterogenous. Han ethnic group is no where near as heterogenous as modern day central asians like Uighurs.
Only two cases of exceptions that i notice
1. the "extreme cantonese"(sorry to use oceanview's terminology) like the martial arts actor Bolo Yeung
2. the ones that are obvious mixes-what i mean by obvious mix is that, if you ask them, they can easily identify their non-Chinese ancestor. Example "my grandfather is (insert ethnic/racial group)"
other than that, just about all "Han Chinese"...look Chinese regardless of region.
Yes, certainly. I wonder if I would see the rejection on number 2 Only two cases of exceptions that i notice
1. the "extreme cantonese"(sorry to use oceanview's terminology) like the martial arts actor Bolo Yeung
2. the ones that are obvious mixes-what i mean by obvious mix is that, if you ask them, they can easily identify their non-Chinese ancestor. Example "my grandfather is (insert ethnic/racial group)"
other than that, just about all "Han Chinese"...look Chinese regardless of region.
QUOTE
nomad admixture in the north wouldn't make a difference since just about all the groups that may or may not have assimilated were not physically different from Chinese. if anything, it would help reinforce cold climate mongoloid features already found on the people of the North China plain (brachycephalic/mesocephalic skull, high cheek bones, more pronounced eye fold, etc)
Well, let not refer to Mongolian/Siberian stock. Take a look at Tocharians.
QUOTE(lobster @ Jan 26 2006, 02:14 PM) [snapback]4786550[/snapback]
Hey, why are some of us so irritated about only Western men+Chinese women are mentioned but not vice versa? Are you guys advocating equal rights for different sexes, or simply think women are a "prize" to "win"? Come on this is the 21st century not 12th......
Talking about equality, how about equal rights for men of all nations? How is only western men and Chinese women represented in any way equal?
If you only believe in the equality between men and women but not the equality between men of different nations, then you are a hypocrite.
I've seen some Han Chinese with blue eyes. But this is by no means a frequent occurence. I posted an image of a blue-eyed Han which I found on Quetzacoatl, can be seen on the thread "Asians all look the same?"
QUOTE(Friend From Far @ Jan 26 2006, 06:12 AM) [snapback]4786522[/snapback]
Well, I have been living in Beijing for a while and sometimes I encounter Chinese men and woman with fairly brown hair and with an eye colour that is almost greenish, while their facial complexion is very Chinese.
Moreover, when I was travelling in Shanxi nearby Datong, and our tourbus stopped at a gas station, one middle-aged vendor approached the bus with wares. When I looked at him he was blue-eyed .
I exclude the possibility that he was wearing contacts, since a pair of glasses is cheaper.
I think that because Northern China was very accessible and with nomadic peoples in the north through centuries, blue/lighter coloured eyes Han Chinese is possible, although in a small number.
Moreover, when I was travelling in Shanxi nearby Datong, and our tourbus stopped at a gas station, one middle-aged vendor approached the bus with wares. When I looked at him he was blue-eyed
.I exclude the possibility that he was wearing contacts, since a pair of glasses is cheaper.
I think that because Northern China was very accessible and with nomadic peoples in the north through centuries, blue/lighter coloured eyes Han Chinese is possible, although in a small number.
ooph, shanxi men are considered handsome in China. Maybe it's becaus they mixed blood.
Hahaha, but now, let's not get people thinking like that 
QUOTE(lobster @ Jan 26 2006, 09:14 AM) [snapback]4786550[/snapback]
Hey, why are some of us so irritated about only Western men+Chinese women are mentioned but not vice versa? Are you guys advocating equal rights for different sexes, or simply think women are a "prize" to "win"? Come on this is the 21st century not 12th......
This is rather naive. "Men and women are exactly the same" is nonsense
If you would not realize the harm of such a depiction, then you do not have insight into how people grow up
Psychology is everything
QUOTE(Chow Yun-Fat, PhD @ Jan 27 2006, 12:05 AM) [snapback]4786733[/snapback]
This is rather naive. "Men and women are exactly the same" is nonsense
If you would not realize the harm of such a depiction, then you do not have insight into how people grow up
Psychology is everything
If you would not realize the harm of such a depiction, then you do not have insight into how people grow up
Psychology is everything
I thought CHFers are relatively more "enlightened" than that.
if being enlightened means less sex, then no thanks
QUOTE(Chow Yun-Fat, PhD @ Jan 27 2006, 12:22 AM) [snapback]4786743[/snapback]
if being enlightened means less sex, then no thanks
less sexist =/= less sex
QUOTE(Tibet Libre @ Jan 26 2006, 02:15 AM) [snapback]4786426[/snapback]
1. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, he falls in love with an enchanting Chinese woman, they marry and a child is born to them. The child looks as a child of such a couple is likely to look, that is neither like his or her European father nor like his or her Chinese mother but like both and none of them at the same time. The couple lives happily together in the PRC resp. ROC, everything is fine and the child grows up there.
Will the child be recognized by other Chinese as full Chinese or not?
Will the child be recognized by other Chinese as full Chinese or not?
I believe the answer to this one would be yes. First, the child is very likely to inherit the dark hair and dark eyes of his chinese parents, and will therefore not look that "outlandish" (just a bit so). As such, he would probably be mistaken for someone of a minority, especially in regions where there are many minority peoples (large cities and less central provinces).
As far as I know, if you speak like a chinese, act like a chinese, dress like a chinese, and people will assume you are chinese, even though your physical looks are not that chinese (I was once mistaken for a chinese, and I have a very white skin and blue eyes).
QUOTE(Tibet Libre @ Jan 26 2006, 02:15 AM) [snapback]4786426[/snapback]
2. A blonde, blue eyed foreigner with curly hair and European features comes to China, settles down, begins to feel at home and lives for long years there. One day he wakes up and feels Chinese, so he decides to apply for the citizenship of the PRC resp. the ROC.
Will it be granted by the Chinese authorities? And, more importantly, will be recognized as full Chinese, if I may say so, by the Chinese, his neighbours, his work colleagues, his friends?
Will it be granted by the Chinese authorities? And, more importantly, will be recognized as full Chinese, if I may say so, by the Chinese, his neighbours, his work colleagues, his friends?
As far as I know, this has happened a couple of times in the past. I used to know an old french woman in Beijing (blonde, fair skinned) who had been married to a chinese man, had lived there since the early 50s (maybe even before), and held chinese citizenship. I don't think there is a real opposition from chinese authorities to naturalise foreigners, and I suspect this will happen more in the future. Of course, this will probably remain an exceptional situation, whereas the colleagues and friends of the person will probably consider him/her as chinese, the average person on the street might mistake the person for a foreigner.
So, I'd answer yes to both questions.
Francois
QUOTE(Conan the destroyer @ Jan 27 2006, 09:22 AM) [snapback]4786688[/snapback]
I've seen some Han Chinese with blue eyes. But this is by no means a frequent occurence. I posted an image of a blue-eyed Han which I found on Quetzacoatl, can be seen on the thread "Asians all look the same?"
You must be referring to this image, right?http://www.painetworks.com/photos/ha/ha1045.JPG
However, when I searched with keyword "blue eyed" in painetworks.com, this man did not appear.
Other people appeared.
the keywords for him are actually:
7109 china old man xinghe village shanxi xian sean sprague
Actually I don't see his eyes as really blue... (if zoomed larger)
and this quote from Quetzalcoatl:
QUOTE
~An old Chuckchi woman with "blue eyes" seems to have stigmatism, since I saw Nelson Mandela with "blue eyes: too.
another picture in the same thread which may be interpreted "green eyed South Chinese" seems to be actually Japanese...
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