Jump to content


Photo

The Sakhalar (Yakuts)


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#31 naruwan

naruwan

    Emperor (Huangdi 皇帝)

  • CHF Grand Historian Award
  • 2,156 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese Language
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Taiwanese History and Culture, Taiwanese Holo language, Chinese Pseudo history

Posted 20 April 2007 - 12:24 AM

No to both. The Sakhalar are too far north. They certainly had interaction with Tungusic groups, but these were the northern most ones.. the Evens and certain branches of the Evenki. Like wise you hear virtually nothing about the interaction with the Jurchens/Manchus or China with the Evens either, and a few mention of Evenkis..but usually being limited to certain southern groups such as the Solons.

Also, it should be noted that in Russian, the letter thats transcribed as "kh" is applied to foreign words with the "H" sound as Russia doesn't have a real equivalent to H. So it is actually pronounced more like "Saha". However there is a dedicated K sound in their language as well.

But its not to deny that there's any possibilities. the Saha language has Turkic words for Camel, etc..animals that don't exist up in the north.. and they have armor similar to southern Turkic groups. However its not enough evidence for any direct kind of linkage with the ancient Sakas either.


interesting. thanks for the info!
mudanin kata mudanin kata. kata siki-a kata siki-a. muhaiv ludun muhaiv ludun. kanta sipal tas-tas kanta sipal tas-tas. kanta sipal tunuh kanta sipal tunuh. sikavilun vini daingaz sikavilun vini daingaz.

Former hansioux

#32 Zorigo

Zorigo

    Grand Mentor (Taishi 太师)

  • Master Scholar (Juren)
  • 459 posts

Posted 20 April 2007 - 11:20 AM

Also, it should be noted that in Russian, the letter thats transcribed as "kh" is applied to foreign words with the "H" sound as Russia doesn't have a real equivalent to H. So it is actually pronounced more like "Saha". However there is a dedicated K sound in their language as well.

But its not to deny that there's any possibilities. the Saha language has Turkic words for Camel, etc..animals that don't exist up in the north.. and they have armor similar to southern Turkic groups. However its not enough evidence for any direct kind of linkage with the ancient Sakas either.


word Sakha- do you know the meaning in Turkic?
Also can write Yakut word for camel?

AFAIK- Sakha sounds like Mongolian word ZAKH- ZAKHA is collar for clothes, outskirt for cit , border area for territory

#33 Western man

Western man

    Provincial Governor (Cishi 刺史)

  • CHF Rookie Member
  • 49 posts

Posted 20 April 2007 - 06:56 PM

they look rather tungusic to me. perhaps due to mixing with the evens and the evenkis?


No, that could not be proven so far though a low percentage of Yakutian matrilineages is probably from Evenk women married to Yakut men.

Among the closest relatives of the Yakuts are the Tuvans (also Turkic-speakers). That was genetically confirmed, as far as I know. But craniometrically, the Tuvans probably diverge a bit because of their stronger Western admixture. Other peoples similar to Yakuts are Buryat and Khalkha Mongols and the Lower Amur Tungus. But Evenks and Evens often have more deep-set eyes due to an admixture of a different Siberian racial type.

#34 naruwan

naruwan

    Emperor (Huangdi 皇帝)

  • CHF Grand Historian Award
  • 2,156 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese Language
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Taiwanese History and Culture, Taiwanese Holo language, Chinese Pseudo history

Posted 21 April 2007 - 10:19 AM

word Sakha- do you know the meaning in Turkic?
Also can write Yakut word for camel?

AFAIK- Sakha sounds like Mongolian word ZAKH- ZAKHA is collar for clothes, outskirt for cit , border area for territory


besides the collar part.... the rest sounds like it is similar to the word 塞
mudanin kata mudanin kata. kata siki-a kata siki-a. muhaiv ludun muhaiv ludun. kanta sipal tas-tas kanta sipal tas-tas. kanta sipal tunuh kanta sipal tunuh. sikavilun vini daingaz sikavilun vini daingaz.

Former hansioux

#35 Karakhan

Karakhan

    Chief State Secretary (Shangshu Ling 尚书令)

  • Admin
  • 907 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese Ethnicities,Peoples
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Chinese Ethnic Minorities, Central Asian Ethnicities

Posted 01 May 2007 - 11:09 PM

word Sakha- do you know the meaning in Turkic?
Also can write Yakut word for camel?

AFAIK- Sakha sounds like Mongolian word ZAKH- ZAKHA is collar for clothes, outskirt for cit , border area for territory


I assume you can read cyrillic..

Тэбиэн - Camel (Yakut)
дея - Camel (Tatar)
Верблюд - Camel (Russian)

linguistically, anything that is д sound in "common Turkic" (every Turkic language except Chuvash and Yakut), becomes a Т in Yakut.

as for what it sounds like.. I looked at a Russo-Yakut dictionary.. to put it simply Sakha (Саха) and words related to it, were simply translated to Яку́т

but in other Turkic languages.. using Tatar.. there is a word called Сах, which means pit.. which is funny since Sakha has the world's largest diamond pit..but I'm sure its more of a coincidence since it was only recently that the Russians created it.

here's something you may find interesting.
Yakut and Mongol comparisons
http://www.uni-bonn....ngol_sakha.html

in addition, Yakut is one of the few Turkic languages to have long vowels. It has 8 long vowels and 8 short ones. The only other Turkic language to have long vowels is Turkmen. All the other Turkic languages lost it (but its thought that it existed before).

While Yakut and Chuvash are always classified as being the most divergent of Turkic languages, Yakut is still much closer to "common Turkic" than Chuvash is.

#36 Zorigo

Zorigo

    Grand Mentor (Taishi 太师)

  • Master Scholar (Juren)
  • 459 posts

Posted 02 May 2007 - 01:32 AM

I assume you can read cyrillic..

Тэбиэн - Camel (Yakut)
дея - Camel (Tatar)
Верблюд - Camel (Russian)


Mongolian word for CAMEL is ТЭМЭЭ



as for what it sounds like.. I looked at a Russo-Yakut dictionary.. to put it simply Sakha (Саха) and words related to it, were simply translated to Яку́т

here's something you may find interesting.
Yakut and Mongol comparisons
http://www.uni-bonn....ngol_sakha.html


Thanks it was interesting to see many Mongolian word in Saxa Language.

#37 Karakhan

Karakhan

    Chief State Secretary (Shangshu Ling 尚书令)

  • Admin
  • 907 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese Ethnicities,Peoples
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Chinese Ethnic Minorities, Central Asian Ethnicities

Posted 04 May 2007 - 01:48 PM

quite interesting to see how close the Mongolian word is and the Yakut word is for Camel.

For those interested in hearing how Yakut (or Sakha) sounds like
some news clips in the Yakut language





traditional dancing



Yakut opera



#38 Vissa

Vissa

    Citizen (Shumin 庶民)

  • CHF Rookie Member
  • 4 posts
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Asian History
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Yakuts (Sakha)

Posted 26 November 2008 - 08:09 PM

I'm a Sakha from Sakha Republic, Far East Russia. And I have to tell you that my language consists of mostly turkic words (60%) and old mongolian words (35%). That's why so many words are similar with mongolian and buryat languages.

We don't look like Tungusic groups, some Sakha look like Japanese, some like Mongols and some like Central and South American Indians. My wife is Evenk (Tungusic): she looks very like a girl from Laos, I look like South American Indian :)

#39 Vissa

Vissa

    Citizen (Shumin 庶民)

  • CHF Rookie Member
  • 4 posts
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Asian History
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Yakuts (Sakha)

Posted 26 November 2008 - 08:34 PM

And Sakha is never pronounced like Saha, rather it more sounds like Saqa (Sakqa) (a very strong KQ). And there might be some Persian/Arabic words too, like: mal - a product, goods, cattle, bodo - body

#40 Bilge

Bilge

    Imperial Inspector (Jianyushi 监御使)

  • CHF Rookie Member
  • 157 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Istanbul
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese History
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Greek History, Roman History, Turkish History

Posted 29 November 2008 - 07:33 AM

I have a Turkish - Yakut (Sakha) dictionary (by Yuriy Vasiliev/ Cargıstay). Yakuts are a Turkic people. We are brothers!
I'm a historian.

#41 baybal

baybal

    Imperial Inspector (Jianyushi 监御使)

  • Entry Scholar (Xiucai)
  • 176 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Asian History
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Altaics/Sayan-Atlay plains civilistaions

Posted 07 February 2009 - 05:45 AM

Hello I am Sakha too.

Yakut is fairly russian emperialism etnonym, it's suggested to be very insulting today. Please use word Sakha or Uranghai instead.

#42 mongobanjum

mongobanjum

    Commissioner (Shi Chijie 使持节)

  • Master Scholar (Juren)
  • 68 posts
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese History
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    none

Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:09 AM

Yakuts don't look Korean. They look like Evenks with a very slight European admixture.

Edited by mongobanjum, 07 February 2009 - 06:10 AM.


#43 Zorigo

Zorigo

    Grand Mentor (Taishi 太师)

  • Master Scholar (Juren)
  • 459 posts

Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:09 AM

Hello I am Sakha too.

Yakut is fairly russian emperialism etnonym, it's suggested to be very insulting today. Please use word Sakha or Uranghai instead.


Is there any meaning in word "SAKHA"?

Btw: I like to listen Jeadas' Min Sakhabyn

#44 mongobanjum

mongobanjum

    Commissioner (Shi Chijie 使持节)

  • Master Scholar (Juren)
  • 68 posts
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Chinese History
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    none

Posted 07 February 2009 - 06:13 AM

Hello I am Sakha too.

Yakut is fairly russian emperialism etnonym, it's suggested to be very insulting today. Please use word Sakha or Uranghai instead.


Uriankhai? The Koreans used to call these people Orangkae (오랑캐). It was a rough descriptor of those living in the north.

#45 baybal

baybal

    Imperial Inspector (Jianyushi 监御使)

  • Entry Scholar (Xiucai)
  • 176 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Main Interest in CHF:
    Asian History
  • Specialisation / Expertise:
    Altaics/Sayan-Atlay plains civilistaions

Posted 07 February 2009 - 07:01 AM

Uriankhai? The Koreans used to call these people Orangkae (오랑캐). It was a rough descriptor of those living in the north.

The most common transation for word Sakha is "field" "black ground". But our most old known etnonym is Three Kori Kans tribe. It's about times when we lived in Sayan plains and around Baykal lake.




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users