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China's natural boundaries


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#1 xng

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 08:16 PM

Which neigbouring countries of china are defined by mountains and rivers/sea ?

1. India - defined by himalaya mountains.

2. Japan - Japan seas

Russia ? Vietnam ? Laos ? Thailand ? Mongolia ? Kazahstan ? Korea ? Burma ?

Edited by xng, 01 July 2006 - 08:17 PM.


#2 Prince of the South

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 10:53 PM

Tianshan - kazakhstan?

amur river , heilongjiang - russia

i think himalayas more nepal than india

#3 Yongwoni GOD

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 08:06 AM

China doesn't really have natural borders. North China Plains were easily invaded by northern tribes as it was very flat with no terrain to defend it. Thats why it was invaded so many times in history because it was hard to defend

#4 Tibet Libre

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 09:35 AM

Why natural borders if the Chinese themselves had made one out of stone?

#5 Mei Houwang

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 09:52 AM

Because it's not used as a border anymore? Unless you are talking of some past dynasties.

#6 Tibet Libre

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:08 AM

Alright, then the question is settled, isn't it? If a border which hold for 2000 years, is no border anymore, then the whole concept of China having natural borders or having the right to natural borders is invalid either.

#7 Mei Houwang

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 10:15 AM

Actually it wasn't much of a border during half the Chinese dynasties. Qing, Tang, part of the Han, etc... and that is just assuming the current great wall as the great wall for all dynasties(even though the current great wall only existed by the Ming period).

Anyway, I agree, there really isn't a "natural" border, as borders change over time. When a country is powerful, their borders expand, and when the country is weak, the border shrinks. Natural borders is quit useful nowadays so that there wouldn't be border clashes between countries. I would really reconsider having the great wall as China's modern border. Considering that the great wall is still being constructed(and the fact that there are technically 3 great walls), the PRC would guide the construction until it envelopes more territory than other people would like :).

#8 xng

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:46 PM

China doesn't really have natural borders. North China Plains were easily invaded by northern tribes as it was very flat with no terrain to defend it. Thats why it was invaded so many times in history because it was hard to defend


China has natural borders like himalaya mountains which serve as a very good country border as it is difficult to cross over to india.

I am just wondering how they define the borders of mongolia with china ? Is it arbitrary since there are no natural borders.

In the past, I thought it is the gobi desert that separates china and mongolia but that is not the case.

#9 xng

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 11:49 PM

Why natural borders if the Chinese themselves had made one out of stone?


Natural borders like mountains or great rivers/seas are much more effective as a barrier between two countries than artificial ones like the great wall which is not mighty enough to prevent any invasion.

Initially , the russians used the amur river to separate china and russia but they got greedy and 'swallowed' part of the land below the amur river effectively cutting off china from the sea of japan.

Edited by xng, 03 July 2006 - 11:53 PM.


#10 qrasy

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 09:03 AM

Yalu river from North Korea?
Some mountains from the Vietnam, etc. in the South?
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#11 xng

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Posted 05 July 2006 - 11:44 PM

Some mountains from the Vietnam, etc. in the South?


There doesn't seem to be any mountains separating vietnam and china, it is just flat land. Maybe the vietnamese members here can provide more facts.

There is mountains separating vietnam and laos. That is why the vietnamese can only expand southwards and not westwards. That is why vietnam now has the shape of a 'banana'.

#12 Karakhan

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Posted 06 July 2006 - 06:17 PM

China's borders with the Central Asian "~stans" are generally the Tien Shan mountain ranges. Bhutan and Nepal with the Himalayas.. although there's still disputes over where exactly the borders divide in the mountains.

#13 xng

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 09:04 AM

I just saw a really good map in the bookstore.


Western boundary
---------------------
China is separated from Burma, India and Central Asia by an almost continuous range of very high mountains extending from Burma to North West Mongolia eg. Himalaya, Tien Shan Mountains.


Eastern boundary
--------------------
China is separated from Japan by the huge Sea of Japan. The Yalu river doesn't seem to be a good natural border with Korea as the river is quite insignificant.

Northern boundary
---------------------
There doesn't seem to be any natural border with Mongolia and the border seems to be arbitrary. However, the amur river is huge enough to serve as a good natural border with Russia because it is the 10th longest river in the world. But part of the amur river is now annexed by Russia.


Southern boundary
---------------------
There doesn't seem to be any huge natural border with Thailand/Laos and Vietnam ?

Edited by xng, 16 October 2006 - 09:16 AM.


#14 xng

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:23 AM

If china has to erect a barbed wire and concrete fence, then its borders with Korea is quite weak. Anybody can just wade across parts of the shallow Yalu river.

Huge natural borders are more effective.


http://www.iht.com/a...Korea_Fence.php

HUSHAN, China China has been building a massive barbed wire and concrete fence along parts of its border with North Korea in the most visible sign of Beijing's strained ties with its once-cozy communist neighbor.

Scores of soldiers have descended on farmland near the border-marking Yalu River to erect concrete barriers 2.5 to 4 meters (8 to 15 feet) tall and string barbed wire between them, farmers and visitors to the area said.

Last week, they reached Hushan, a collection of villages 20 kilometers (12 miles) inland from the border port of Dandong.

"About 100 People's Liberation Army soldiers in camouflage started building the fence four days ago and finished it yesterday," said a farmer, who only gave his surname, Ai. "I assume it was built to prevent smuggling and illegal crossing."

Though the fence-building appears to have picked up in the days following North Korea's claimed nuclear test last week, experts said the project was approved in 2003. Experts and a local Hushan official, who requested anonymity because of the project's sensitivity, said the military was in charge of the building.

A Defense Ministry spokesman, Ye Xing, declined comment, saying he was not authorized to release information on border security.

The fence marks a noticeable change in China's approach to its North Korean neighbor. In the decades following their shared fight against U.S.-led U.N. forces in the Korean War, China left their border lightly guarded, deploying most of its forces in the northeast toward its enemy, the Soviet Union.

But the border became a security concern for Beijing in the past decade, as North Korea's economy collapsed and social order crumbled in some places. Tens of thousands of refugees began trickling across the border into northeast China, fording the Yalu and Tumen rivers or walking across the ice in winter.

Professor Kim Woo-jun at the Institute of East and West Studies in Seoul said China built wire fences on major defection routes along the Tumen River in a project that began in 2003, and since September this year, China has been building wire fences along the Yalu River.

"The move is mainly aimed at North Korean defectors," Kim said. "As the U.N. sanctions are enforced ... the number of defectors are likely to increase as the regime can't take care of its people ... I think the wire fence work will likely go on to control this."

But he said he also believes that Beijing wants to firmly mark its border with the North along the two rivers.

Kim said China and the North drew their border in a secret treaty. That treaty wasn't reported to the United Nations and therefore does not apply to a third country, like South Korea. China is concerned that South Korea may claim a different border after absorbing or unifying with the North.

Reporters who visited the border area in the past week saw about 500 meters (1,640 feet) of newly erected barbed wire fence north of Dandong, mainly along river banks and occasionally broken up by mountain areas or military guard posts.

A duck farmer in Hushan, who would only give his surname Han, said that soldiers began putting up the fence near his farm last Monday afternoon the same day that North Korea claims to have carried out an underground nuclear test.

Edited by xng, 16 October 2006 - 11:26 AM.


#15 Karakhan

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 11:05 PM

I just wanted to add that sometimes rivers/lakes as borders can bring in alot of headaches. they can easily change course and there is no shortage of disputes in regards to land that was "switched over" or islands in them or that was formed.




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