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Sun Bin's Art of War


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#1 Zuo Zongtang

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:23 PM

I have a this book in English translation with the original Chinese text. However, its missing many parts because the only version of the book was discovered in a tomb. Some parts had dissapeared, but enough remained to make sense of this.

Does anyone have any thoughts that they'd like to share on this, such as his multiple metaphors of an army to a crossbow? In Sun Bin's theory, heavy troops should be in the front to puncture through using mommentum and light troops to clean up the mess, like a crossbow bolt. Another analogy is how a king was the archer, the bolt the army and the crossbow the commander.
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#2 ih8eurocentrix

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 01:50 AM

Hes better than Sun Tzu in my Opinion.
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#3 Wujiang

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 11:11 AM

In all honesty, I think the Sunzi Bingfa is way overrated. His 13 chapters encompasses alot of things but when you compare it with other military texts of the time, I find it to be really limiting and doesn't get into the deep end.

The Sun Bin Bingfa on the other hand gets more into the nitty gritty parts and gives full detailed explanations on things where Sun Wu would just gloss over it with some vague principle.

But then again, we should remember that Sun Bin likely to have built his treaty after reading the Sunzi Bingfa. Which means he had a lot more sources to draw upon when writing his book.
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#4 CARDINAL009

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 07:07 PM

Sun Bin essay is quite deeper than what has been said.
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[ "There's no greater illusion than fear, no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself, no greater misfortune than having an enemy. Whoever can see through all the fear will always be safe. -Laozi"

[A man without hope is a man without fear.]

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#5 TMPikachu

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 06:51 PM

any specifically recommended english language copy?
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#6 Sephodwyrm

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 12:34 PM

I personally would think the 13 Chapters are really good. He emphasizes planning, politics and diplomacy over the real military conflict, and this is most applicable in the way of declaring war.
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#7 CARDINAL009

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 06:27 PM

any specifically recommended english language copy?


In terms of Sun Bin, recommend Dr. Ralph D. Sawyer's "Sun Pin Military Methods" and Dr. Roger T. Ames's "Sun Bin Art of Warfare".

Subtle differences in their translation. Great interpretation.

In terms of Sunzi, people @ Yale University (also some ppl at the State Dpt and intelligence agencies) likes Griffith's translation. Some military and business ppl prefers Sawyer. Academic University's Asian Studies dept ppl prefer Ames.

Can validate the first point. 2nd point and 3rd points is based on rumors

On my bookcase, have all three including John Minford and others.

@ the end, there is no right, no wrong. It's all about what one gets out of their reading and able to apply to current and future endeavor(s).

Edited by CARDINAL009, 23 August 2006 - 07:13 PM.

CARDINAL009

[ "There's no greater illusion than fear, no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself, no greater misfortune than having an enemy. Whoever can see through all the fear will always be safe. -Laozi"

[A man without hope is a man without fear.]

['No Fear. No Anger. No Hate. No Suffering. The Perfect Mindset for Overachievers"]

#8 Zuo Zongtang

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 12:38 PM

any specifically recommended english language copy?



This is the version I have:

http://www.amazon.co...2700034?ie=UTF8
"嗟乎,燕雀安知鸿鹄之志哉" -陈胜

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#9 CARDINAL009

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 05:40 PM

This is the version I have:

http://www.amazon.co...2700034?ie=UTF8


The Roger Ames x'lation.

Edited by CARDINAL009, 01 September 2006 - 05:40 PM.

CARDINAL009

[ "There's no greater illusion than fear, no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself, no greater misfortune than having an enemy. Whoever can see through all the fear will always be safe. -Laozi"

[A man without hope is a man without fear.]

['No Fear. No Anger. No Hate. No Suffering. The Perfect Mindset for Overachievers"]

#10 Non-Han Nan Ban

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 01:09 AM

Ah! Now that would suck to have your knee caps mutilated like Sun Bin. Poor dude. At least he got his revenge against Pang Juan. From what I gather though, he was sort of above that, cared more about serving Qi than personal vendetta, although it fit nicely into his strategy to have Pang Juan captured and his forces routed at the Battle of Guilin :charge: , and finally destroyed at Maling much later.

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#11 CARDINAL009

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Posted 11 September 2006 - 05:00 PM

Ah! Now that would suck to have your knee caps mutilated like Sun Bin. Poor dude. At least he got his revenge against Pang Juan. From what I gather though, he was sort of above that, cared more about serving Qi than personal vendetta, although it fit nicely into his strategy to have Pang Juan captured and his forces routed at the Battle of Guilin :charge: , and finally destroyed at Maling much later.

Eric


@ the end, the noblest focuses on "the greater cause".
CARDINAL009

[ "There's no greater illusion than fear, no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself, no greater misfortune than having an enemy. Whoever can see through all the fear will always be safe. -Laozi"

[A man without hope is a man without fear.]

['No Fear. No Anger. No Hate. No Suffering. The Perfect Mindset for Overachievers"]

#12 CARDINAL009

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Posted 03 October 2006 - 05:25 PM

To newbies,

Get Sawyer's Complete Art of War. It has both essays: Sun Zi AoW and Sun Bin's Military Methods.
CARDINAL009

[ "There's no greater illusion than fear, no greater wrong than preparing to defend yourself, no greater misfortune than having an enemy. Whoever can see through all the fear will always be safe. -Laozi"

[A man without hope is a man without fear.]

['No Fear. No Anger. No Hate. No Suffering. The Perfect Mindset for Overachievers"]

#13 maestro

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:06 AM

hi...
Is true that sun bin and pang juan both are student of Gui gu zi ? and Pang juan later set him because he jealous with his schoolmate ?
thx in advance for any answer....

Gui Gu Zi must be very famous at those era then.... he have 2 prominent student.....

#14 fcharton

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:17 AM

Gui Gu Zi must be very famous at those era then.... he have 2 prominent student.....


4 famous students, in fact, if you add Su Qin and Zhang Yi, prominent guys too...

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#15 maestro

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Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:36 PM

hi... but who is su qin and zhang yi ?
I only remember that they mentioned in San Guo Yan Yi (during zhuge liang vs sun quan's advisors debate)




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