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Lady Fan Lei Fa and her husband Sit Ding San


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#1 galvatron prime

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:55 AM

I have a burning question to ask ,does anyone have information on Lady Fan Li Fa and his husband Sit Ding San ,are she really exits in history ,i see history book that have no mention on her or her husband , do anyone know ,thank you .

#2 Yun

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 01:05 PM

You mean Fan Lihua 樊梨花 and Xue Dingshan 薛丁山?

They are purely fictional characters from Chinese opera. Fan Lihua is one of those woman warriors who were popular in Chinese operas and novels (others include Mu Guiying, Liang Hongyu, and Hu Sanniang) because audiences liked the combination of war and romance.

Even the Western Liang kingdom 西凉国 that Fan Lihua came from is fictional. The only Western Liang kingdom 西凉国 in history was the one ruled by the Li family from 400-421, and the Tang emperors themselves claimed to be descended from the rulers of that Western Liang state. By the time of Tang Taizong, the Western Liang had been gone for 200 years. So there is no possibility of the Tang dynasty fighting a war with a Western Liang state.
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#3 Rong Qin Wang

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 03:20 AM

Zunjing de Yun the Sage-King,

Yes, I believe Galvatron was referring to Fan Li Hua and Xue Ding Shan. I have also been wondering whether they actually existed in Chinese History or just fictional characters from soap operas. I have always had a feeling that Fan Li Hua was a fictitious character since her background seemed too mythical. However, I do believe Xue Ding Shan was actually a son of a very famous general under Tang Taizong. I remember reading an article online stating that Xue Ding Shan’s father fought and defeated troops from Goguryeo, achieving great military merits under Tang Taizong. Meanwhile, Xue Ding Shan had many great victories against Western foreign states. However, I am not certain whether this article was reliable or not since it could have been based on some famous TV Series.

Well, Brother Yun, you are the future historian here, so if you confirm that Fan Li Hua and Xue Ding Shan were fictional characters, then of course, I will take your words for it.

Xie Xie,

#4 Yun

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 04:32 AM

Xue Dingshan's purported father was Xue Rengui, and Rengui certainly did exist. He was one of the most successful early Tang generals, playing a major role in invasions of Koguryo under Taizong and Gaozong, and we have a thread on him in this section: http://www.chinahist...p?showtopic=734. But Xue Rengui had only two sons mentioned in the sources: Xue Rui, who also became a famous general, and Xue Chuyan who was a provincial governor but proved a failure in the job.
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#5 Rong Qin Wang

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 04:11 AM

Xue Dingshan's purported father was Xue Rengui, and Rengui certainly did exist. He was one of the most successful early Tang generals, playing a major role in invasions of Koguryo under Taizong and Gaozong, and we have a thread on him in this section: http://www.chinahist...p?showtopic=734. But Xue Rengui had only two sons mentioned in the sources: Xue Rui, who also became a famous general, and Xue Chuyan who was a provincial governor but proved a failure in the job.


Zunjing de Yun the Sage-King,

Oh, so Xue Rengui did exist in actual history? Well, since the stories regarding this pair of father and son were so famous and went hand in hand, I just assumed that if the son was fictional, then so was the father. I guess that is not really a reasonable assumption since there are plenty of fictional characters surrounding historical figures.

Thanks for giving me the links! It really seemed that Xue Rengui was a pretty gifted general since the victories over Goguryeo have eluded Tang Taizong during his last years.

By the way, I recall there was also another famous novel regarding Xue Ding Shan’s son accidentally killing Crown Prince Li Hung, the firstborn son of Tang Gaozong and Wu Zetian. As a result, Tang Gaozong also died due to grief over his lost son. This eventually caused the execution of his entire family. However, he was able to restore his family name by assisting Tang Zhongzong in reestablishing the Tang Dynasty.

I am just wondering as to whether this character was a real historical figure or not. I know that this tale was totally bogus because it was silly.

Xie Xie,

#6 Rong Qin Wang

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 03:39 AM

By the way, I recall there was also another famous novel regarding Xue Ding Shan’s son accidentally killing Crown Prince Li Hung, the firstborn son of Tang Gaozong and Wu Zetian. As a result, Tang Gaozong also died due to grief over his lost son. This eventually caused the execution of his entire family. However, he was able to restore his family name by assisting Tang Zhongzong in reestablishing the Tang Dynasty.


Zunjing de Yun the Sage-King,

Hmm, after checking over my sources, I would like to make a correction to my last post!

I have previously stated that Xue Ding Shan’s son accidentally killed Crown Prince Li Hung, the firstborn son of Tang Gaozong and Wu Zetian. Well, I was wrong since this statement of mine was incorrect. Xue Ding Shan’s son unintentionally killed Prince Li Dang, the fourth son of Tang Gaozong and Wu Zetian. This actually sounds even more ridiculous because at least, Crown Prince Li Hung was suspected of being poisoned by his mother, and never made it to the throne. Meanwhile, Prince Li Dang later ascended to the throne and received the posthumous name Tang Ruizong.

Anyway, was any parts of the novel regarding Xue Ding Shan’s son factual?

Xie Xie,




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