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If there was no Han Xin


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#1 Fireice

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 09:45 PM

Suppose that Xiang Yu killed Han Xin when he was still serving under him..

So that means that there will be no Han Xin to help Liu Bang..Do you think Liu Bang will still be able to defeat Xiang Yu?

#2 Guest_Liu Bang_*

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 07:09 AM

I do not think Liu Bang would defeat Xiang Yu if there was no Han Xin. Han Xin was one of the most important person in assisting Liu Bang to get the empire. He led many troops to battle against Xiang Yu, one of which was the Battle of Gaixia, where Xiang Yu was defeated. Liu Bang had no other generals or commanders as good as Han Xin, and one could say that Han Xin helped Liu Bang to become emperor. Pity he rebelled in the end.

However, some may argue that without Han Xin, Liu Bang can also achieve the empire due to his advisors like Xiao He, Zhang Liang and Chen Ping. But I do not really think so. Yes, it is true that these three advisors can help Liu Bang think of tactics to win Xiang Yu, but I feel that if there was no Han Xin, no commander would be able to lead the Han army to destroy Xiang Yu.

To gain an empire, one must have good advisors and a good commander to lead the army, as well as good generals. Without a good commander, the whole army would be in chaos, despie how good the advisers are. Liu Bang had both of these, so he was able to win. Xiang Yu was not a person who appreciate talents, so that is the root of his loss to Liu Bang in the end.

In my opinion, Han Xin certainly assisted Liu Bang a great deal.

So fireice, what is your opinion anyway?

#3 akinkhoo

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 11:37 AM

the question is DID Han Xin rebel or was he falsely accussed? :arrogant^:

#4 light

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 02:21 AM

the question is DID Han Xin rebel or was he falsely accussed? :arrogant^:


Definetly falsely accused.

Han Xin being such a intelligent person will know that peace has just been restored and the people love Liu Bang. Nobody will be willing to rebell with him so he definetly won't try to rebell.

#5 Guest_Liu Bang_*

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 10:08 PM

the question is DID Han Xin rebel or was he falsely accussed? :arrogant^:


Dear akinkhoo,

Han Xin did plan to rebel. I would say that he was summouning people from all over China and planning to rebel Liu Bang. So, he is definitely guilty of rebelling.

Liu Bang



Definetly falsely accused.

Han Xin being such a intelligent person will know that peace has just been restored and the people love Liu Bang. Nobody will be willing to rebell with him so he definetly won't try to rebell.


Dear light,

I believe you are wrong in this area. Han Xin wanted to be emperor.

Liu Bang

#6 light

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 10:40 PM

Dear light,

I believe you are wrong in this area. Han Xin wanted to be emperor.

Liu Bang


Any evidence to support this saying?

#7 gurubesar

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Posted 24 December 2007 - 09:43 AM

May I say a little bit on this subject. I think the history belong to the winner. It is therefore very difficult for us to judge what is really happening. There were some incident in the modern time that indicates this kind of behaviour. Who is to say the same thing does not happen in the past as well ??

#8 Guest_Liu Bang_*

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 10:34 PM

May I say a little bit on this subject. I think the history belong to the winner. It is therefore very difficult for us to judge what is really happening. There were some incident in the modern time that indicates this kind of behaviour. Who is to say the same thing does not happen in the past as well ??


Guess gurubesar is the fairest. I agree with him that the history belongs to the winner.

Liu Bang

#9 mariusj

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 09:42 PM

Fear Chen Ping.

Fear him.

#10 Guest_Liu Bang_*

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 08:47 PM

:unsure:

Fear Chen Ping.

Fear him.


Why fear Chen Ping? He was a talented official :unsure:

Edited by Liu Bang, 10 March 2008 - 08:48 PM.


#11 mariusj

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Posted 15 April 2008 - 09:42 PM

:unsure:

Why fear Chen Ping? He was a talented official :unsure:


Chen Ping was as brilliant as Zhang Liang; one could say that Zhang Liang is Yang and Chen Ping is ying. [阳谋阴谋]
Chen Ping understand the evil nature of man, and he use it against them.
He first help Liu Bang escape from XianYang.
Chen Ping managed to split Xiang Yu and his adviser with one gift.and place suspicion on Zhong LiWei.
He then help Liu Bang escape from RongYang.
He then help Liu Bang get Han Xin's forces during the final moments of Xiang Yu's life [thought definitely not final if Han Xin didn't come.]
He then help Liu Bang capture Han Xin at YunMeng.
Help Liu Bang in the siege of BaiDeng.

I say without this guy, Liu Bang himself is dead many times; Xiang Yu would still be alive and Han Xin would fight a war against Liu Bang.

#12 草履虫

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 07:37 AM

if there was no HanXin,there would be a LiXin,or a ZhangXin,or a QianXin,etc..
i think what the history needs is just a totem,not a specific person.An united multiracial feudal dynasty was sure to take the place of Qin.

#13 Guest_Liu Bang_*

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 09:34 PM

Chen Ping was as brilliant as Zhang Liang; one could say that Zhang Liang is Yang and Chen Ping is ying. [阳谋阴谋]
Chen Ping understand the evil nature of man, and he use it against them.
He first help Liu Bang escape from XianYang.
Chen Ping managed to split Xiang Yu and his adviser with one gift.and place suspicion on Zhong LiWei.
He then help Liu Bang escape from RongYang.
He then help Liu Bang get Han Xin's forces during the final moments of Xiang Yu's life [thought definitely not final if Han Xin didn't come.]
He then help Liu Bang capture Han Xin at YunMeng.
Help Liu Bang in the siege of BaiDeng.

I say without this guy, Liu Bang himself is dead many times; Xiang Yu would still be alive and Han Xin would fight a war against Liu Bang.


Hi,

So, you are implying that Xiang Yu should fear Chen Ping as without him, Liu Bang would not have succeeded in conqeuring the empire? Or is it that Chen Ping should be feared because of his talents?

#14 mariusj

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 09:49 PM

Hi,

So, you are implying that Xiang Yu should fear Chen Ping as without him, Liu Bang would not have succeeded in conqeuring the empire? Or is it that Chen Ping should be feared because of his talents?


Eh. No, I am not implying any of that.

I stated that. So yes. Without Chen Ping, Liu Bang would have trouble conquering the Empire.

Now, I am uncertain whether he would succeed or not if Chen Ping wasn't there. But certainly, he would be far more troubled then he was.

#15 labi_tail

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Posted 16 June 2008 - 09:35 AM

i think everyone of them are important....
from Liu Bang himself to Xiao He, Zhanf Liang, Han Xin and Chen Ping....

each haf each roles to play at diff situations n time n able to display their own talents correctly....

so no one s more important than the other...

if u take out anyone of them, Han will b established n Xiang Yu will failed....

:b_evil:
the labi_inle




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