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Ming Military in Imjin War


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#16 Koolasuchus

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 10:55 PM

I have never been able to find a detailed descrption of this war beyond the general course of the war and the end results. This is very enlightening, thanks Warhead. :)

I'm wondering if you can post some detailed battles or on how the campigns were conducted? :g:



Also, just to add that Japanese name for Liu Qiu is Ryukyu Islands.

#17 浪淘音

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 12:14 AM

hopefully you guys have already read this thread but in case you didn't, Warhead put a ton of facts and stats about this subject in this thread

http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=2098

#18 Koolasuchus

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 10:57 AM

hopefully you guys have already read this thread but in case you didn't, Warhead put a ton of facts and stats about this subject in this thread

http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=2098

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I read that, warhead mostly go over numbers and make up of Japanese troops, however it is the Ming force that I cannot find informations on.

PS. 浪淘音 is your new avatar from the HanWu DaDi television series?

#19 浪淘音

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 09:22 PM

I read that, warhead mostly go over numbers and make up of Japanese troops, however it is the Ming force that I cannot find informations on.

PS. 浪淘音 is your new avatar from the HanWu DaDi television series?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


the ming force was a little less than 100,000. Maybe even less.

yes it is from Han Wu Da Di

#20 Borjigin Ayurbarwada

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Posted 01 February 2005 - 11:48 PM

Different sources state otherwise, the Japanese side along with their jesuits state 200,000. Korea states 53,000. I'm not sure what the Ming Shi states, But the secondary Chinese sources I have state 100,000 which might have been from Chinese first hand sources. So I take that. and So did many historians who think the Korean and Japanese sources are the extremes and the Ming troops are probably within these extremes.

As for the details of the war, I do have the information, but again, I have absolutely no time. This article was written by me a long time ago another forum and since the Imjin war is getting more discussion here, I brought it here.

Edited by warhead, 26 August 2006 - 07:39 PM.


#21 ih8eurocentrix

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 09:55 PM

i recently was reading steven turnballs book samurai invasion,ive heard this book is biased ,the book mentions that the chinese were defeated in a few battles.the first being where japanese carried off 6000 ming soldiers head.another defeat called soch'on(not sure about the name) where something like 30,000 ming were lost in that battle,He says the chinese were scared of the sharp japanese blades;and that these blades could easily penetrate the big coats of the ming.IS THIS TRUE?

#22 Guest_Anubis_*

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 11:09 PM

Hideyoshi's foolish attempt at Korea costed the Japanese Army great loss in numbers.One of the only reasons Hideyoshi wanted to gain control of Korea was to take the conquest to China,then to India.His army never went passed the Yalu River into China.The campaign was a big waste.Hideyoshi continued Oda Nobunaga's plan to unify the land of Japan,and in turn,discovered documents written by Nobunaga about a conquest of China.Hideyoshi considered this an option,one that would later cost him humiliation,a great deal of criticism,and a loss.
He thought,he would rule the whole of the Asian continent,and become a universal monarch.
There might not much evidence to support this theory,but he became a mentally unstabled old man,bent on ruling a world,in which he had no knowledge of,except in tales,rumors,and books. :g:
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The campaign put a heavy toll on three countries,Japan,China,and Korea.Japan because of its loss of lives,loss of respect,and large humiliation.Korea because it was the major victim,lost many lives,and China,for it sent troops to Korea to repel the Japanese,and by historian's views,was one of the reasons the Ming Dynasty did not last long after that,for they put too much energy into repelling the Japanese back.

#23 Gubook Janggoon

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 02:12 AM

I think they actually crossed the Yalu for like a day and fought the Jurchens/ Manchus...whatever they were called during that time period. Kato Kiyomasa led the attack on the so called "Orankai" villages.
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#24 Yun

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 06:52 AM

Why could one not argue instead that Hideyoshi had a vision on the scale of Alexander and Chinggis Khan, only that he would have had the same problem that the Japanese empire had in the 1930s, of having to attack a unitary state as large as China?

Check out our other thread on the Ming army in the Imjin War: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=2098


Thomas Chen has recently been reading the Chinbirok by the Korean Prime Minister Yu Songnyong, which is an important primary source on the Chinese and Korean part in the war. Hopefully he can give us some insights soon!

Edited by Yun, 10 March 2005 - 11:14 AM.

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#25 HaSY

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 07:04 AM

excuse me.......did the Japanese army fiught with the Manchus in northern Korea?

Edited by Yun, 10 March 2005 - 07:19 AM.

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#26 Yun

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 07:18 AM

According to Gubuk, they did.
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#27 HaSY

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 07:53 AM

if then....who won?
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#28 Guest_stupidumboy_*

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 10:38 AM

*The Imjin war(from 1592 to 1598)-it was for 7 years lasted and big damage against Korea.The war had happened by the Hideyoshi's demand Joseon dynasty to open the road to the Chinese Ming's invasion.

Korea had big damages by Hideyoshi's invasion ,Japan failed to invade Korean peninsula for 7 years.but choseon Dynasty fell into the dark age from this time since they had big damages on the most part of cultivatable lands and decreased of the population who can occupied for production activities.

I would say this war was the winning of Japan although they had to withdraw their troops after Hideyoshi's death. The Ming dynasty sent supportive troops in the midle part of this war when almost of the Korean peninsula was invaded by toyotomi troops(the reason why they hesiated to send supportive troops is that the Ming dynasty was on the thin ice at that time by the threatening of the manchu tribe from the noertheastern China),.and they made the Hideyoshi troops backdown to the Pyongyang but after their victory,they had defeated and wanted to make a peace treaty with Hideyoshi troops but rejected .

I would say Ming dynasty's supportive troops saved Chosun dynasty's from the invasion of Hideyoshi troops.

I think from this time-Japanese national military power started to show sign of being ahead of even China not to mention of Korea.The Japanese ground troops had the most number of winings but interestingly their navy did not so well and alsmost defeated by the choseon navy.


-summary of the Imjin War-


The founder of Joseon Dynasty, King Taejo distinguished himself in his conquest of Japanese marauders. After the latter's depredations had ceased, Korea opened three ports for trade with Japanese feudal lords, giving investiture to the Tsushima lord who had been engaged in lucrative trade with other ranking Japanese. The Japanese liaison officers living at these ports caused trouble at times, however, and the amount of Joseon's grant was reduced.

In Japan, after the assassination of Oda Nobunaga, who temporarily called a truce among Japan's warring lords, Toyotomi Hideyoshi rose to power in 1590. Hideyoshi needed to find a way to weaken the powerful feudal lords in the western part of Japan. In this explosive domestic situation, he looked abroad and decided that an invasion of China would provide the outlet needed to obtain a peaceful solution at home. When Joseon rejected Hideyoshi's request for aid in attacking China, he ordered his generals to invade Ming and Joseon in 1592. The Japanese army, armed with matchlock guns with which Joseon soldiers were not familiar, reached Hanyang within a few weeks. They had attempted to invade the granary Jeolla-do Province, only to meet the strong resistance of the people led by General Kim Si-min at Jinju. They then turned back towards Hanyang.

King Seonjo and the royal princes fled to the northern provinces and appealed to the Ming Emperor for aid against the invaders. The Japanese generals squabbled among themselves, while Joseon's Admiral Yi Sun-sin conducted a brilliant series of operations in the South Sea, destroying many Japanese ships. The ironclad Geobukseon (turtle ships), which Admiral Yi improved with plated armor resembling a turtle shell, protected the sailors and marines, and were more than a match for anything else afloat.

With the appearance of allied Ming contingents, the Japanese were forced to fight a combined Ming-Joseon army. Cut off from supplies and reinforcements owing to Admiral Yi's control of the sea, the Japanese were severely weakened. A Joseon volunteer army organized in the southern provinces harassed them with guerrilla tactics, while disease and malnutrition took its toll. Peace negotiations were held between the Ming general and the Japanese, who had by then lost the will to fight and started to retreat, stalked by volunteer peasant forces and contingents of Buddhist monks.

Peace negotiations dragged on for five years but proved fruitless, and Hideyoshi sent his army to Joseon again in 1597. The invasion this time encompassed only Gyeongsang-do province and part of the Jeolla-do province, as the invaders were intercepted by the volunteer army.

The Japanese retreated and Hideyoshi's death forced the withdrawal of his forces. Admiral Yi, in his attempt to smash the Japanese retreat, was struck by a stray bullet and killed during a climactic naval battle. The war ended at long last, with grave impact upon Joseon, Ming China and Japan.



Impact of the War

The results of the Hideyoshi invasion brought about the destruction of government records, cultural objects, archives, historical documents and many works of art, the devastation of land, decrease in population, and the loss of artisans and technicians. Arable land amounted to only one-third of the prewar acreage, and the resulting decrease of revenue necessitated additional taxation on less devastated provinces such as Gyeonggi-do or Chungcheong-do. The government resorted to selling official titles and yangban status, and on occasion, held an examination for government service open to the bondsman class. The loss of artisans brought a decline in handiwork quality, as well as in manufactured goods such as pottery and book printing. The Neo-Confucian norms and values were shaken, and the class distinctions which the yangban tried to uphold began to slowly crumble.

The Japanese, on the other hand, achieved a peaceful, centralized feudal society under Hideyoshi's successor, Tokugawa Ieyasu. Importation of the political philosophy of Neo-Confucianism and the study of medicinal materials and therapy developed in Joseon also helped Japanese scholars make significant contributions to their society. The introduction of typography with movable metal type expedited book printing, and Joseon artisans captured by the Japanese army developed ceramic and textile products. After the Tokugawa takeover, Japan wanted peaceful diplomatic relations with Joseon in order to benefit further from the Joseon version of Chinese culture.

For Ming China, however, the results were catastrophic. The economic setback suffered in the campaign later led to the collapse of the dynasty in 1644.

#29 Guest_stupidumboy_*

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 10:50 AM

I never heard Manchu troops had battles against Hideyoshi troops during the Imjin war,

But Nurhachi (努爾哈赤)wanted to send his supportive troops for Chosun but rejected by both of Ming and Chosun.


During the Imjin war,Nurhachi successfully broadened his territory and influence.

#30 Yun

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 11:08 AM

For Ming China, however, the results were catastrophic. The economic setback suffered in the campaign later led to the collapse of the dynasty in 1644.


Thomas Chen has recently told me that this is a myth. The real decisive factor causing the collapse of the dynasty was the famines and resultant peasant rebellions of the Chongzhen reign. Warhead pointed out the same thing in an earlier post on the thread that I have now merged with this one.
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