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Jews in China


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#31 lanjingling

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 08:56 PM

You can convert to judaism, but it's very difficult :it took a guy i know 3 years of studies of the bible to be accepted as a jew by the jewish priests - that may be a reason why so few people convert to judaism.

Edited by lanjingling, 10 August 2006 - 08:59 PM.


#32 ahxiang

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 09:51 PM

The chinese jews are called Han Zu (han-chinese), because many have actually intermingled and mixed into the han-chinese. The han-chinese are in fact a mixed 'ethnic group' absorbing other foreign ethnicity into them.

There is a chinese article about history of Jews in China at
http://www.china.org...uwai/187324.htm



General Zhao Yun, I don't know how you could have been misled on the 'Jew' matter. Anybody could post a thread, saying " I have heard that Hakka was related to Italians. Anybody have any to contribute?"

The Jew matter could probably be a closed case after reading Sidney Rittenberg the American communist who came to serve in China's civil wars in late 1940s. He tried his best to revive the Jew topic of Kaifeng, a city that had been destroyed by wars and Yellow River floods numerous times in history. It would be a real c**p to think any Jews could actually have survived and still live in Kaifeng of Henan today. The possible attachment to a 'Jewish' heritage in Kaifeng and China at large could be purely speculative and circumvential.

In any case, should any Jews have come to China in Tang Dynasty, they were merged into Muslim herds and became indistinguiishable from the Islam. As someone already pointed out, Hakka had come to southern China in 3-4th century AD, much earlier than Tang Dynasty. Hakka, literally meaning 'guest dweller', was not an ethnic terminology.

In Central Asia, it took hundreds of years for Buddhists and Muslims to fight out the war. HINDU KUSH, another area of conflict, literally meant for the Blood of the Hindus, showed how bloody the wars between two religions were. Anyone who imagined that some Jews could slipped through the Islam-Buddhism power struggles must be day-dreaming.

As a side note, there are few Hakkas, or White supremacists pretending to be Hakka, who had been spreading a non-Mongoloid origin of Chinese since year 2000.

Should you find 'modern Jews' in China, please note that White Russians who fled to China for asylum, had been mostly Jews. After Russian Jews, European Jews had come to China. Not to mention the Jews who came to China in 18th-19th century trading Opiums. The Jewish damage to China was and is OPIUM. Their HK firm which was notorious for opium trade of 1840s, still exists in HK today. The Jew-Opium connection should serve as a warning to you guys how they rode on White colonialist gunboats and warships in causing havoc to China, and in another sense, havoc to Beirut today. I would like to ask you guys to avoid the blind affiliation here. Should any real Chinese 'Jew' be capable of presenting some written evidence, like a family lineage book, we could discuss this topic further on a case by case basis.

Edited by ahxiang, 10 August 2006 - 09:53 PM.


#33 lanjingling

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 10:12 PM

The Jewish damage to China was and is OPIUM. Their HK firm which was notorious for opium trade of 1840s, still exists in HK today. The Jew-Opium connection should serve as a warning to you guys how they rode on White colonialist gunboats and warships in causing havoc to China, and in another sense, havoc to Beirut today.

What kind of warning, pray tell ?

#34 Guest_felixthecat_*

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 11:35 PM

Not to mention the Jews who came to China in 18th-19th century trading Opiums. The Jewish damage to China was and is OPIUM. Their HK firm which was notorious for opium trade of 1840s, still exists in HK today. The Jew-Opium connection should serve as a warning to you guys how they rode on White colonialist gunboats and warships in causing havoc to China, and in another sense, havoc to Beirut today. I would like to ask you guys to avoid the blind affiliation here.



Major Chinese news media outlets rarely report this historic fact in regard to Jew's deadly sins in Opium Trade devastated China for nearly 1 century,rather often elevate Jews for how they excelled in education and commerce plus their frugality.

British Jew Benjimin D'Israel was the Prime Minister of England during Queen Victoria's reign,he encouraged QV to militarily annexed India as part of British Empire.I wonder if he had " deadly hands " in the sinful opium trade in those years.

Edited by felixthecat, 11 August 2006 - 09:48 PM.


#35 Yun

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 12:25 AM

Probably madman Adolf Hitler realized Jews deadly sins could brought destruction to European race.

Chinese need to wake up to the REAL TRUTH,not ignorantly put Jews in baseless high regard.

That reference to Hitler is very insensitive to victims of the Holocaust. Please refrain from making such statements. Criticism of Israel over the war in Lebanon should not go to the extreme of demonizing the Jewish people as a whole. We wouldn't like to see criticism of China over Tibet to extend to demonizing the Chinese people or justifying the Nanjing Massacre, after all.

The Jew matter could probably be a closed case after reading Sidney Rittenberg the American communist who came to serve in China's civil wars in late 1940s. He tried his best to revive the Jew topic of Kaifeng, a city that had been destroyed by wars and Yellow River floods numerous times in history. It would be a real c**p to think any Jews could actually have survived and still live in Kaifeng of Henan today. The possible attachment to a 'Jewish' heritage in Kaifeng and China at large could be purely speculative and circumvential.


The presence of a Jewish community in Kaifeng was attested by the Jesuits including Matteo Ricci. The Jewish synagogue in Kaifeng was indeed destroyed by floods in 1461 and 1642, but the community itself survived. There are still 200-300 people claiming Jewish descent in Kaifeng today, although they have lost the use of their language and the practice of ther religion. In a letter to the recent July issue of the Chinese Heritage magazine (published in the PRC), a reader from Kaifeng reported the views of an Israeli expert on Judaic studies: the 'Jews of Kaifeng' are not regarded as true Jews by the Jews in Israel, because they have lost touch with Jewish culture and have no reliable records to prove that their mothers were Jewish (which is the criterion for judging if a person is Jewish and entitled to return to Israel).
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#36 lanjingling

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:33 PM

Major Chinese news media outlets rarely report this historic fact in regard to Jew's deadly sins in Opium Trade devastated China for nearly 1 century,rather often elevate Jews for how they excelled in education and commerce plus their frugality.

British Jew Benjimin D'Israel was the Prime Minister of England during Queen Victoria's reign,he encouraged QV to militarily annexed India as part of British Empire.I wonder if he had " deadly hands " in the sinful opium trade in those years.

Moderators : I've retracted by deleting my insensitive statements directed at all Jews.

Actually you haven't retracted, since you say "Disraeli was jewish, so i wonder if he had " deadly hands " in the sinful opium trade in those years", implying that ALL jews have big chances to be connected to the "sinful trade".
FYI, Disraeli had converted to protestantism as a child, so, for you, judaism is not a religion or a culture, but a race ?

#37 ahxiang

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 09:40 PM

Yun,

I was merely trying to something 'cease & desist' as far as some wannabe Chinese attempt at affliating with high nose bridge people while they could not tell the Jew from among the high nose bridge people. (Related to differentiating among high nose bridge would be the ignorance of today's Chinese in telling the color of eyes. Today, almost all Chinese men and women writers wrote about 'blue' eyes in any scenario linking to Americans, Jews, or Europeans. I was surprised to find out that Chinese of 60-70 years ago knew much more than today's Chinese. In several WWII related books, including Frank Dorn's book, Chinese firmly believed that Americans did not have blue eyes, while those 'Europeans' with blue eyes must be WHITE RUSSIAN SPIES.)

And, I strongly advocate a substantiation of historical quotes by looking for the source materials, no matter how many hundred years ago. I do not buy whatever Marco Polo said about this or that, or Mateo Ricci said about the 'Chinese Jews' this or that. -Serious students of history need to find the original documents to accertain the claims or quotes.


As to the Jew and Opium, you may want to take a look at
http://www.gaycourter.com/FIBQA.htm

Q. How did the Jewish merchants become involved in this trade?

A. The Sassoons were among several Jewish merchants (the Sassoons in my book are entirely fictional, by the way) who joined with Indian and British merchants (most notably Jardine Matheson) as middlemen. The British owned the rights to the poppy crops, then conducted wholesale auctions in Calcutta. It was up to the enterprising merchants to get the chests of opium into the Inner Land of China and mark up the price accordingly along the way. Donít forget that other merchants were bringing legal opium to other parts of the world like England (where the artistic set including Coleridge and De Quincy made it famous) and the United States. In the early part of the nineteenth century the Yankee Clipper opium traders included the progenitors of prestigious American families with names like Astor, Forbes, Perkins, and Cabot.

#38 lanjingling

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 10:26 PM

I strongly advocate a substantiation of historical quotes by looking for the source materials, no matter how many hundred years ago. -Serious students of history need to find the original documents to accertain the claims or quotes.


As to the Jew and Opium, you may want to take a look at
http://www.gaycourter.com/FIBQA.htm

That's funny, because Gay Courter is not an historian, but a writer who uses 2nd-hand sources, so you contradict yourself here :rolleyes:
BTW, you didn't answered my question " What kind of warning ?"

#39 Yun

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 11:15 PM

In several WWII related books, including Frank Dorn's book, Chinese firmly believed that Americans did not have blue eyes, while those 'Europeans' with blue eyes must be WHITE RUSSIAN SPIES.

Don't blondes tend to have blue eyes, no matter what country they're from? It's true blondeness is not found in Jews, but I don't see why Americans can't be blonde.

And, I strongly advocate a substantiation of historical quotes by looking for the source materials, no matter how many hundred years ago. I do not buy whatever Marco Polo said about this or that, or Mateo Ricci said about the 'Chinese Jews' this or that.


Are you saying you will only accept the quote if I give the name of Matteo Ricci's book, or that even if Matteo Ricci said it, you don't believe him? Your two sentences seem to be giving different messages.

The reference is Ricci's Opera Storiche del P. Matteo Ricci. I can't read Italian and I have not read the book, but it is cited in another book I have.
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#40 urofpersia

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 12:04 AM

As a side note, there are few Hakkas, or White supremacists pretending to be Hakka, who had been spreading a non-Mongoloid origin of Chinese since year 2000.


Darn it, I never knew those White Supremacists would resort to disguising themselves as Hakkas, stealing our identities and spreading lies in our names. I must report this to my clan association at once!

Ho, Silver! :charge:
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Posted 12 August 2006 - 12:11 AM

Darn it, I never knew those White Supremacists would resort to disguising themselves as Hakkas, stealing our identities and spreading lies in our names. I must report this to my clan association at once!


I think he meant trolling in cyberspace or some sort of unconventional conspiracy theory. B)

#42 ahxiang

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 11:02 AM

Darn it, I never knew those White Supremacists would resort to disguising themselves as Hakkas, stealing our identities and spreading lies in our names. I must report this to my clan association at once!

Ho, Silver! :charge:



There was a purported Hakka called Dr. Lee something on a website called East Wind something who had been spreading the myth on top of Xinjiang mummies since 2000, and he claimed to be a ember of Hakka clan in Toronto area. His thesis was Lord Huangdi, the Yellow Emperor, was coined in the word 'huang' which was "white king", and he said Hakka had high nose bridge and relatively-leveled eye-sockets because they were in fact Central Asians,etc etc.

#43 ahxiang

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 11:11 AM

That's funny, because Gay Courter is not an historian, but a writer who uses 2nd-hand sources, so you contradict yourself here :rolleyes:
BTW, you didn't answered my question " What kind of warning ?"



I do not claim to be an expert on Jew and Opium. I happened to have read more about the opium dealings the Jewish merchants had conducted in China, in addition to Courter's book. In light of the fact that the Jews had overtaken the American foreign policies and news media, you would have to give a high mark for Gay Couter to publish his book exposing the myth of opium trade. It is more than Jews involved here. The American presidential families had built their wealth on top of opium trade with China which used to have 3/4th world's silver reserves.

Also take a look at another 'wannabe' site, http://www.joyfulnoi.../JoyChina6.html which taunted things like Jewish contribution to China:
"Earlier this century, Sephardic Jews moved to this city [Shanghai] in great numbers. Along with the house of Jardine Matheson, the Sassoons, Kadoories, and Hardoons came large numbers of Jewish families from Baghdad, Bombay, and Cairo. Joining them in far greater numbers were poverty-stricken Jews from czarist lands fleeing pogroms in the Pale of Settlement, becoming shopkeepers, bakers, and milliners.The Russian Revolution of 1917 practically doubled the size of the Jewish community."

As to 'warning', I was not clear earlier. The points are that, avoid to have wannabe mentality as to high nose bridge or have a propensity to do a plastic surgery to get a high nose bridge if you could not do a racial change; understand that non-Chinese have no love for China and Chinese people other than China's wealth and women; and beware that there are always people who act as 'parasites' riding on top of powerful people to achieve their aim of domination over the rest of peoples.

Edited by ahxiang, 12 August 2006 - 11:12 AM.


#44 ahxiang

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 11:21 AM

Don't blondes tend to have blue eyes, no matter what country they're from? It's true blondeness is not found in Jews, but I don't see why Americans can't be blonde.
Are you saying you will only accept the quote if I give the name of Matteo Ricci's book, or that even if Matteo Ricci said it, you don't believe him? Your two sentences seem to be giving different messages.

The reference is Ricci's Opera Storiche del P. Matteo Ricci. I can't read Italian and I have not read the book, but it is cited in another book I have.



Yun,

It is a matter of relativity. I gave an example of Frank Dorm being caught by CHinese near Jinan of Shandong as a 'White Russian' spy. I also have another count of an American reporter caught near Wuhan as a same kind of spy. Chinese knew at the time that Russians and Russian Jews were predominantly carrying colored eyes, while assuming that Americans did not. The reason Americans did not have this predominant colored eyes is that it was melting pot with people all from the world. And, White Russians were the lackies of Japanese Kwantung Army during WWII by the way.

Jews were a complex phenomenon. Somebody needs to do a DNA test to determine their lineage. There was a prevalent school of thought on websites with a claim that Khazer Turks of Central Asia had converted to Judaism on a wholesale scale, and that the Jews who went to Eastern Europe were the desendants of Khazer Turks and Europeans. That explained why today's Jews in Israel were compeletely different from their Arab neighbors. They supposed to be two branches of the same big family 2500 years ago.

Ricci matter: I could not discount his talks altogether. But someone who knows Italian needs to do some corroboration.

#45 Yun

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Posted 12 August 2006 - 11:45 AM

There was a purported Hakka called Dr. Lee something on a website called East Wind something who had been spreading the myth on top of Xinjiang mummies since 2000, and he claimed to be a ember of Hakka clan in Toronto area. His thesis was Lord Huangdi, the Yellow Emperor, was coined in the word 'huang' which was "white king", and he said Hakka had high nose bridge and relatively-leveled eye-sockets because they were in fact Central Asians,etc etc.

This Dr SL Lee of Asiawind Forums is also an ardent supporter of Gavin Menzies' 1421 theory, and his website contains a theory that the Hakka are descended from the Xiongnu. In my opinion his PhD doesn't make him less of a quack when it comes to history.

There was a prevalent school of thought on websites with a claim that Khazer Turks of Central Asia had converted to Judaism on a wholesale scale, and that the Jews who went to Eastern Europe were the desendants of Khazer Turks and Europeans.



The Khazar khanate did convert to Judaism, the only state in history to do so. There is a theory that Ashkenazi Jews (Eastern European Jews) are all descended from Khazars, but most scholars now do not support it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
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