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Zhongshan suit


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#16 Jugu

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 06:45 PM

Concerning the meaning of the pockets- I don't know!

But! I have heard that the shape of the flap of the pocket is reminiscent of the curves of the tip of the brush. It suggests a respect for the long scholarly tradition in China.
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#17 Kulong

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Posted 05 June 2005 - 09:18 PM

三民主義 San Min Zhuyi's three "min" stand for 民族 minzu, 民權 minquan, and 民生.

Minzu literally means "ethnicity", I don't know how that can be translated into "nationalism".

Minquan literally means "rights of the people", to translate it into "democracy" seems a little off...

Minsheng means the "livelihood of the people", I don't know how that can be translated into socialism... :glare:

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Well
民族主義 is nationalism
民權 is what he described as where everyone can take part in politics and have the power to decide policy so it means universal election ie democracy.
民生 People's livelihood is very like socialism where government provides welfare and help the disadvantaged.

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I looked up a English-Chinese dictionary and yes 民族主義 is indeed translated as "nationalism" but it's very misleading. 民族 literally means ethnicity so how does 民族主義 translate into "nationalism", which should really be properly translated as 國家主義.

民權 means "rights of the people", having democracy doesn't necessarily means people have rights (except the right to vote...). So translating 民權 as democracy is inadequate at best.

民生 means the livelihood of the people, and yes perhaps it means to provide welfare and help the disadvantaged but supposedly U.S. has similar programs and U.S. isn't often linked with "socialism". So translating 民生 into socialism is very misleading.
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#18 HistoryEnjoyingFellow

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 12:14 AM

Does anybody know where one could buy a Sun Zhongshan Suit online? Preferably a normal cotton one that regular folks would have worn. Thanks for the help.

#19 Yun

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 12:45 AM

民族 literally means ethnicity so how does 民族主義 translate into "nationalism", which should really be properly translated as 國家主義.


Not true - the Chinese have used 民族 to translate 'nation' ever since the late 19th century. 國家 means 'country', not 'nation'. Even today, nationalism is still translated as 民族主義.
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#20 Yun

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 01:51 AM

I have now merged the three Zhongshan/Mao suit threads into one for greater effectiveness in the discussion.

It is not widely known that the Zhongshan suit was actually designed for Sun Yat-sen by Huang Longsheng, a subordinate of his, as a uniform for the Revolutionary Party. Huang was a native of Taishan county, in Guangdong, who had been a tailor in Hanoi (Vietnam) before joining Sun Yat-sen.

Here are two articles on Huang Longsheng in Chinese:
http://www.zsnews.cn...t.asp?id=434812
http://www.jmnews.co.../c_384866.shtml

HistoryEnjoyingFellow, the closest thing I could find to a Zhongshan suit sold online on an English site was the army outfit here:
http://www.chinesemo...Suit-p-852.html

It looks like the 'Mao suit' is very unfashionable among overseas Chinese, compared to the more traditional frog buttons and silk jackets?
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#21 HistoryEnjoyingFellow

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 02:19 AM

Thanks, but it would seem odd to wear a military uniform while not in the military. Perhaps I would have more luck finding "civilian" versions by trying Chinese sites. Thanks for the help.

#22 Yun

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 03:24 AM

Most Chinese tailors would probably not sell online, I'm afraid. The overheads are too high. I myself have a Zhongshan suit that was tailor-made for me by a tailor in Singapore. It was pretty expensive, and was used as a uniform by my Chinese orchestra (you can see the photo earlier on this thread).

The Zhongshan suit seems to be no longer popular among overseas Chinese, because of its later association with Communism. None of the English sites selling Chinese clothing that I have found includes a Zhongshan suit - only the silk or cotton 'kung-fu suits' with many frog buttons. Also, it seems that the Zhongshan suit is fast losing popularity in China, because it is all they wore for such a long time and they want to wear branded Western jeans and business suits now.
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#23 Kulong

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 03:27 AM

Not true - the Chinese have used 民族 to translate 'nation' ever since the late 19th century. 國家 means 'country', not 'nation'. Even today, nationalism is still translated as 民族主義.

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Maybe so, but that doesn't make it right.

Also, what's more important is what Dr. Sun Yatsen meant when he wrote 三民主義.
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#24 tongyan

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:47 PM

Maybe so, but that doesn't make it right.

Also, what's more important is what Dr. Sun Yatsen meant when he wrote 三民主義.

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sure. what did he mean?

#25 Kulong

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:54 PM

sure.  what did he mean?

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I don't exactly have a copy of 三民主義 handy... <_<
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#26 babyblue

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:01 AM

Most Chinese tailors would probably not sell online, I'm afraid. The overheads are too high. I myself have a Zhongshan suit that was tailor-made for me by a tailor in Singapore. It was pretty expensive, and was used as a uniform by my Chinese orchestra (you can see the photo earlier on this thread).

The Zhongshan suit seems to be no longer popular among overseas Chinese, because of its later association with Communism. None of the English sites selling Chinese clothing that I have found includes a Zhongshan suit - only the silk or cotton 'kung-fu suits' with many frog buttons. Also, it seems that the Zhongshan suit is fast losing popularity in China, because it is all they wore for such a long time and they want to wear branded Western jeans and business suits now.


Hey I'm currently on vacation in China at the moment, and a week ago, I managed to find a tailor that does Zhongshan suits at a great price. I ordered one at 600 RMB, that's like AUD$100... :b_evil:

I asked for a slightly modified one though, with gold coloured buttons and no falling collar. I'll shoot a photo of myself in it once I get it.

#27 jhf0551

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Posted 07 August 2007 - 11:44 AM

know this suit when saw Sun Yat Sen wear it in his pictures...
it is known that he invented this suit to symbolise the new age of revolution for china........
juz want to ask that is this suit still be wear by people nowadays?

When I was a kid, that's during 1980s, many of the people wear Zhongshan suit, including my grandpa. But now, western suit is widely accepted, and you can hardly find any Zhongshan suit wearers in China's large cities. When I was in high school, I am a member of the school chorus, and the uniform is Zhongshan suit. We wore these suits to perform in Beijing Concert Hall many times.

Interestingly, recently I read a book and the author calls Zhongshan suit the "Mao Suit".....
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#28 Jake Holman

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 12:54 AM

"Interestingly, recently I read a book and the author calls Zhongshan suit the "Mao Suit"....."

In America, everybody calls them "Mao suits". No one here knows who Sun Zhongshan was anyway (and those few who do call him "Sun Yat-sen" after the Cantonese pronunciation of (孫逸仙). Americans associate the suit only with Maoism and the Cultural Revolution.

#29 babyblue

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 09:04 AM

This afternoon I collect my first custom made suit, a Zhongshan suit. Initially I went there with great anticipation and much excitement, until I saw the buttons. The buttons they used was indeed gold in colour, but the style was bad. After inquiring whether they have other ones and found out that they didn't, I was advised to go to a market nearby where I was told there's many stores selling buttons, and select my own. So I went to the market, asked around and finally found a shop where there's a sizable selection of buttons. They didn't have any gold coloured ones either, but I found some really nice bronze ones, and got those.
Got back to the tailor shop and gave them the new buttons, only to realise they haven't sewn the sleeve buttons on yet... :unsure: How am I suppose to look for 6 mini versions of the bronze buttons I bought? I wasn't about to go back to market again to look for some. Its was hard enough to find those bronze ones, the chance of finding smaller versions of those is close to zilch. So in the end I had to settle with small black plastic ones... :wallbash:

When I tried it on, the fitting was perfect(as it should be) and it looked great. The only other problem (a rather troubling problem) is, the gap at the collar is a bit wide <_< ...makes me look a bit like a priest when I wear it...I wonder if they can fix it and attach a new one... :arrogant^:

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#30 Mok

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Posted 08 August 2007 - 10:02 AM

I wonder if there are any variations for ladies like the one Mao's wife wore, or are they just plug ugly? :unsure:

I suppose the closest I've seen is ladies wearing mandarin-collar business suits.

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