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Why there are no emperors in china now?


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#1 sunflower1

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 05:15 PM

In Japan they still have Akihito. in most europe countries they also have a running monarchy. UK have a King and Queen of England and even have other Kingdom like Wales. Spanish, Netherland, Monaco, countries of Scandinavian etc also an example of existing King/Queen traditions. in Middle East they have Emirates,Thailand have an undisputed King and in Malaysia they got Sultanate.

lots of monarchy in a world today don;t have political influence to the running goverment. they existed just because it was a tradition and they don't want to stop their rich heritage.

why china,a region with so many dynasties in the past and hail as a longest continuating civilazation, doesn't have a running emperor/monarchy tradition today ?

what happen to the last descendent of china's dynasty in this case a Qing dynasty today? What is Pu-Yi's descendent status right now? are their family get the honour just like other countries,like europe, still honour their nobles family?

while so many attempts to learn and save China's heritages today, are there any attempt to preserve the tradition and the past imperial family China's had?

#2 General_Zhaoyun

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 08:57 PM

The last emperor of China Puyi has already passed away. I'm not sure if he has any heir. During the 1930s, the Japanese government installed a puppet regime in Manchuria with Puyi being restored as an emperor, as an attempt to restore monarchy. But after WWII, Puyi was imprisoned for being a 'traitor' to China.

China does not have an emperor now, because it's a republic (i.e. country is ruled by President rather than an emperor). Ever since the 1911 Chinese revolution by Sun Yat Sen (father of republican China), China has progressed from an imperialistic nation to a republic nation. In 1897, there was an attempt to create a constitutional monarch (i.e. preserving the monarchy), but it was not successful. By the time of chinese revolution in 1911, the last emperor had to give in to republicans in China.
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#3 sunflower1

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:22 PM

do you think this is a big loss of china for not having a running monarchy tradition right now ?

i mean even in a country like indonesia they are still have a running sultanate which enable us to learn how the life of the nobles once in the past. are there any places in china which still run the tradition ? this is will be more a question about preserving a tradition rather than about a form of goverment.

#4 General_Zhaoyun

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 09:42 PM

It might be a good way of perserving imperial tradition, but it was inevitable that China's monarch was not going to exist for long because during early ROC period, there was a strong and powerful force against the existence of monarch. China was facing a great historical transition period from imperial age to republican age. So, there was no way in which a monarchy can survive, be revived or even exist. Restoring a monarchy would be akin to acting against historical progression, which clearly wasn't possible at a turmoil times when China was facing internal civil war, invasion from Japan etc.
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"夫君子之行:靜以修身,儉以養德;非淡泊無以明志,非寧靜無以致遠。" - 諸葛亮

One should seek serenity to cultivate the body, thriftiness to cultivate the morals. If you are not simple and frugal, your ambition will not sparkle. If you are not calm and cool, you will not reach far. - Zhugeliang

#5 polar_zen

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 12:43 AM

Japan had a monarch at the same time and ended up modernizing faster than any nation in Asia during the 19th century. What did Japan do right in balancing tradition, national identity, and modernization, that China did wrong?
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#6 Non-Han Nan Ban

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 12:52 AM

A figurehead monarch maintained by the PRC? :blink: The CCP is all about class struggle, eliminating class differences, and defeating class enemies (well, not so much after the Cultural Revolution); why would they parade around and tout a man similar to Great Britain's King of England? Who represents the epitome of class difference? The ultimate patriarch over society: the emperor? I would be shocked to hear the CCP allow something like this, as it would be perhaps the most visible symbol of the total and unquestionable reversal of the communist order. The PRC still has a facade to maintain, you know. ;)

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#7 sunflower1

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 01:53 AM

one of my question still dont got answer. what happen to the descendent of former imperial family, do they got they still got their honour ? while we keep digging chinese history why we dont heard much about the former imperial family in china ?

#8 wlee15

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 03:52 AM

Many of the members of the royal family changed their names to avoid persecution after the fall of the dynasty. In an agreement between the Qing dynasty and the republican government established in 1912, the Emperor (Pu Yi) agreed to abdication but allowing the Emperor to retain his title in perpetuality(The Articles of Favorable Treatment after the abdication of the Qing Emperor) and given the accord that a foreign monarch and allowing him to stay in the Forbidden palace and giving him a yearly stipend. In 1924 a warlord forced Pu Yi to leave the forbidden city. However neither the ROC government or the PRC has taken steps to repeal the articles of favorable treatment and as such there's probably someone out that can rightly claim to be the Emperor of the Qing dynasty, but let's face it who would bother?

#9 Shaolin

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 08:29 AM

one of my question still dont got answer. what happen to the descendent of former imperial family, do they got they still got their honour ? while we keep digging chinese history why we dont heard much about the former imperial family in china ?


It also depends on which dynasty of imperial family u like to know...

Interestingly,the descendents of the Han Imperial family are still traceble and are still living in some village(I cannot remember where I have seen this but I am going to find out)

And they are still being honoured by their villagers....

And lets us not forget Yuan Shikai trying to be one.....
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#10 polar_zen

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 04:44 PM

Prince Hngzhn of the Aisin-Gioro clan is the current incumbent leader of the House of Qing.

The Qing Genealogy can be found here.

http://www.4dw.net/r...na/manchu12.htm

Here is another article on the current heir to the Qing throne.

Edited by polar_zen, 03 March 2008 - 04:47 PM.

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#11 sunflower1

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 05:06 PM

Han imperial family, from which dynasty ? i think qing dynasty rule for quite a long time right, that mean the closes would be ming back in 1600's.

about puyi, i read in wiki last night that in 2007 his autobiography would be re print.

Aisin-Gioro Pu Yi's autobiography "The First Half of My Life (我的前半生)", ghost-written by Li Wenda, is well known as "From Emperor to Citizen" in the Western world. It will be released in China again in 2007 as a newly and correctly revised version. Many sentences which had been deleted in the 1964 version will be correctly included. In his book he admits that he committed perjury in the International Military Tribunal for the Far East.[citation needed]



#12 KaLing

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 01:51 AM

Japan had a monarch at the same time and ended up modernizing faster than any nation in Asia during the 19th century. What did Japan do right in balancing tradition, national identity, and modernization, that China did wrong?

That's the million dollar question isn't it? ;) I'd like to hear opinions about that.

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#13 Guest_Liu Bang_*

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 04:27 AM

I think the reason why the monarchy system in China doesn't exist is due to the fact that many people don't really prefer a dynasty to reign. Not meritocratic nor democratic, if you ask me. In that case, talents in governing a country can never rise to become the holder of power. And, it isn't fair too. A monarchy system would allow heirs to inherit the throne and would one rather prefer an emperor who laze around all day long and takes things for granted, or a person from a humble background but can govern a country well? Besides, the monarchy system can also take a toll on some take-for-granted princes (who thinks that they will inherit their throne), thus destroying their personalities.

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#14 mariusj

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 04:27 AM

IMHO.

In order to reform, groups of power must either agree to share power or they will fight to defend their power.

Funny enough, Meji restoration was carried by rogue [I say rogue because they went up against the Shogunate] Samurai ranks and Nobles; Warlords[武家] and Nobles [公卿] are the fundamental of Japanese society, throughout history these two groups fought against each other for supremacy, but in Meji restoration, parts of one group allied with the other and thus they are able to carry out their reforms [which really isn't reform. . .] Meji succeed because it [the court] controlled the army.

While the Hundred Days Reform in Chinese history failed due to two reason, the bigger being the 窃国大盗袁世凯 Yuan Shikai's betrayal to the Emperor, while the smaller being Nobles who resisted the reform find ally in the Empress Ci Xi; if the Emperor had the army, it wouldn't of mattered, same as if the Nobles found no standard to carry, they wouldn't of mattered. However, [again, IMHO] since unfortunately for China they hit the jackpot twice.

Conclusion. If you want reform fast, be prepare to do lots of killing.

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Posted 04 March 2008 - 04:30 AM

Interestingly,the descendents of the Han Imperial family are still traceble and are still living in some village(I cannot remember where I have seen this but I am going to find out)


This sounds interesting. I wonder how the historians manage to track this down? Please kindly let me know if you have found the source. Thank you!

Liu Bang


Japan had a monarch at the same time and ended up modernizing faster than any nation in Asia during the 19th century. What did Japan do right in balancing tradition, national identity, and modernization, that China did wrong?


Is it due to the different mentalities of people? The Chinese are probably scared that a dynasty/monarchy will happen again but the Japanese are not afraid?




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