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Is Han even an Ethnic Group?


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#346 YummYakitori

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:22 AM

The Chinese will take Mongolia back in no time.
 
Yes. Han Chinese is an ethnic group. O3. Nough said.


Mongolia being part of China may be something inevitable. As Loz4en said, Mongolia is sitting upon a large treasure chest of resources. Mongolia has barely 3 million people (half the population size of Singapore) to fend for a country more than 2220 times the size of Singapore.

Either that or Mongolia would be a very under-developed country - I mean, what's the most you can do with 3 million people?

China has the population size nearly 450 times that of Mongolia. China wants the resources, she wants the land, she wants the tourism and other beneficiaries that she would receive if Mongolia is acceded to China.

If China takes Mongolia by force, it would be far less than peaceful though. Mongolia will practically become a 2nd Xinjiang where people create racial tensions and riots. Neither would the United Nations allow such a thing to happen.
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#347 mohistManiac

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:43 PM

What insanity is this?  China already has some colder places like Heilongjiang and Liaoning and the cold areas of Sichuan and they haven't even fully developed them for tourism or for natural resources or anything.  Why would China need a bunch of grassland?


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#348 Modu Chanyu

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 02:15 PM

What insanity is this?  China already has some colder places like Heilongjiang and Liaoning and the cold areas of Sichuan and they haven't even fully developed them for tourism or for natural resources or anything.  Why would China need a bunch of grassland?

same reason why US would want alaska and russia owning siberia.

#349 mrclub

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 04:06 PM

Does Mongolia serve any strategic advantage?
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#350 Moloc

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 04:10 PM

Does Mongolia serve any strategic advantage?

The arctic. China's desperately trying to lay some kind of claim in the North due to global warming, and so do many other countries.

There would be probably other good reasons to do so, but ethnic diversity usually leads to conflicts so I don't know how wise it is.



#351 mrclub

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 05:18 PM

Not too sure for ethnics. I heard Inner Mongolia has more Mongols than Outer Mongolia?
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#352 YummYakitori

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:06 AM

Not too sure for ethnics. I heard Inner Mongolia has more Mongols than Outer Mongolia?


Yep. More than twice over, in fact.
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#353 mrclub

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 07:31 PM

same reason why US would want alaska and russia owning siberia.

 

Yeah...For the rich resources only last time


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#354 xng

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:38 AM

It is an ethnic group but perhaps terms like Cantonese people, Minnan people, Shanghainese people etc are the subgroupings of a larger Han.

Perhaps one can say Han is an umbrella term

I don't know.

 

 

It is an ethnic group.

 

When people move apart long enough, the language change, that's why there are Cantonese, Min , Wu etc.

 

China has a long 5000 years history, spoken languages always change.

 

For example, the written language only changed recently from traditional to simplified. It lasted 2000 years.

The spoken languages have changed many times in the North. 

 

For example, Cantonese and Hakka is closest to Middle Chinese, but due to the many tones, it is difficult for foreigners to learn.

 

So Mandarin was produced with only 4 tones and very few endings. Mandarin is the simplified spoken language of Middle Chinese.



#355 mohistManiac

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:08 AM

It still doesn't change the fact that it is an supraethnic.  It is conglomerative of all the groups that see themselves together with a Han identity.  The Sinitic languages didn't just form out of one group overnight it was a lingua franca that had been produced out of several distinct language families that creoled together.


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#356 xng

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:20 AM

Does Mongolia serve any strategic advantage?

 

 

I would say that outer Manchuria has a bigger advantage than Mongolia.

 

Outer Manchuria faces the sea of Japan and has rich sea resources besides natural resources. 

 

Near the sea is better than a desert or grassland for people to live. Not only that, China can have access to more Heilonjiang river resources.

 

But for oil resources, desert is better.

 

So China should reclaim back outer Manchuria first.

 

The Russians weren't stupid to steal that land from China.


Edited by xng, 17 December 2013 - 08:21 AM.


#357 mrclub

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:39 AM

 When people move apart long enough, the language change, that's why there are Cantonese, Min , Wu etc.


Thanks xng!

So these should be known as linguistic groups?

Multiple linguistic groups under one big unity of Han ethnicity?

Thanks.
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#358 mrclub

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:44 AM

I would say that outer Manchuria has a bigger advantage than Mongolia.
 
Outer Manchuria faces the sea of Japan and has rich sea resources besides natural resources. 


Hmm...I thought Outer Mongolia is a landlocked country between Russia and China? It is nowhere near the sea.

Even Inner Mongolia is not that close to the sea.

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#359 YummYakitori

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:25 AM

Hmm...I thought Outer Mongolia is a landlocked country between Russia and China? It is nowhere near the sea.
Even Inner Mongolia is not that close to the sea.
Thanks.


Xng was referring to Outer Manchuria - aka Primorsky Krai as it's known in Russia today. Inner Manchuria on the other hand refers to Northeast China's provinces of Heilongjiang, Jilin and Liaoning (黑龍江、吉林省、遼寧省).

Map of Manchuria - http://upload.wikime...huria-zh-cn.png

Outer Manchuria actually belonged to the Ming Dynasty (明朝) - http://album.udn.com...f_1110824_1.png
Буурэг дэрсэнд уурэглэсэн бужин туулай нь ч амгалан Булээн нууранд нь ганганалдсан хотон шувууд нь ч амгалан Буувэй санаа нь ивлэсэн Бусгуй сэптгэл нь ч амгалан хонхон дуутай бойтгийг нь Цэцэг унсэх нь энхрийхэн хöгöн горхины урсгалд нь Цэнгэг хараахай зуггуйхэн Хиртэшгуй ариухан дагшинд нь Монголын узэсгэлэн яруухан

#360 mrclub

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:48 PM

Xng was referring to Outer Manchuria - aka Primorsky Krai as it's known in Russia today. Inner Manchuria on the other hand refers to Northeast China's provinces of Heilongjiang, Jilin and Liaoning (黑龍江、吉林省、遼寧省).

Map of Manchuria - http://upload.wikime...huria-zh-cn.png

Outer Manchuria actually belonged to the Ming Dynasty (明朝) - http://album.udn.com...f_1110824_1.png


Sorry about that. Misread.

If I am not wrong, PRC don't claim Outer Manchuria anymore.

Anyway they are more occupied with East China Sea disputes.

Edited by mrclub, 17 December 2013 - 06:14 PM.

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